terribleperson wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:
There's a difference between "working really hard" and "working for several weeks straight with no days off and having to respond to e-mails at 4 AM." I'm not saying this doesn't occasionally happen at some firms, but this seemed to be the norm for Cravath summers this year, which is why more than a few of them did 3L OCI at their respective schools despite having offers.
This is probably where the distinction between the rotation system (Cravath) and the free market system (K&E) comes into play: if you happen to be assigned to an associate who feels it's appropriate to e-mail you at all hours of the night with unreasonable demands, then you're stuck with them for an extended period of time, and your life will be a living hell for that entire rotation. In a free market system, you have the option of working with whomever you choose (and chooses you).
This was not the norm @ Cravath this summer. The norm was consistent nights until 8pm, some weeks 10pm, and occasionally nights past midnight. Weekend/holiday work was also common. Is it possible you'll get slammed all summer? Yes. Will they protect you because you are a summer? No. Is it guaranteed you will work like a dog all summer? Absolutely not. Some people left at 6pm consistently; some were nearly sleeping under their desks. It depends on the partner and the work available.
So what you're saying is, working until 8-10 PM, with some nights past midnight, with work on weekends and July 4th, was the norm at Cravath...for its summer class. And that some summers were consistently slammed and pulling all nighters.
Look, I understand that most people in BigLaw are mentally prepared to work to death, but I haven't heard of a single other firm -- including K&E -- where summers were worked half as hard. Concerts and baseball games and happy hours are some of the perks that make working in BigLaw worth it; during your summer associateship, you should be trying to impress your firm and your firm should be trying to impress you. Is the Cravath name really worth it? Is the goal to have "exit options," or is the goal to find a place where you actually want to stay on for more than three years?
Don't you want to know exactly what it's like to work at a firm before accepting an offer to begin your career there? A substantial difference in hours worked by full-time associates is a legitimate concern. But the only concern I would have over summer hours is if they're not representative enough.
Fair. Do we have any data on how many hours CSM versus K&E corporate attorneys bill? Additionally interested in how many attorneys typically jump ship from those firms, and in what year.