Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

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Which V30 NYC firm?

Jones Day
3
11%
White & Case
1
4%
Shearman & Sterling
12
43%
Clifford Chance
0
No votes
Fried Frank
5
18%
Cahill Gordon
7
25%
 
Total votes: 28

Anonymous User
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Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:59 pm

Hey finishing up callbacks and starting to judge between firms, just wondering how do people differentiate between NY firms that aren't in the very top tier?

For example what do people think if you were choosing out of Jones Day, White & Case, Shearman & Sterling, Clifford Chance if you were definitely leaning corporate and considering firm health (especially going forward these 3 to 5 years)?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:04 pm

It's all the same crap. Pick based on the vibe you got from the people you met. Schedule post-offer visits to meet more people.

Or pick based on whether it's more convenient to the Metro North, LIRR, NJT, SIRR or your subway of choice -- especially if you have any living constraints (significant other, just a desire to be in a certain place). Admittedly, JD and CC are a wash there (and their views suck), but Shearman is great for the Metro North/UES -- W&C better for UWS. But go back to the first point -- these are people you have to work with for many many hours. And the work/from health/etc is essentially the same.

(If firms have different summer offer rates, etc...other threads cover that issue -- but most of the firms are not fundamentally different from a business standpoint)

Sup Kid
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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Sup Kid » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey finishing up callbacks and starting to judge between firms, just wondering how do people differentiate between NY firms that aren't in the very top tier?

For example what do people think if you were choosing out of Jones Day, White & Case, Shearman & Sterling, Clifford Chance if you were definitely leaning corporate and considering firm health (especially going forward these 3 to 5 years)?

Out of those, Shearman, by far (for a lot of reasons).

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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:09 pm

Sup Kid wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey finishing up callbacks and starting to judge between firms, just wondering how do people differentiate between NY firms that aren't in the very top tier?

For example what do people think if you were choosing out of Jones Day, White & Case, Shearman & Sterling, Clifford Chance if you were definitely leaning corporate and considering firm health (especially going forward these 3 to 5 years)?

Out of those, Shearman, by far (for a lot of reasons).


Could you elaborate? Thanks! I do like a lot of the corporate people I've talked to at Shearman, but I was under the impression that hours are even longer at Shearman compared to JD, CC, etc.

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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Sup Kid » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Hey finishing up callbacks and starting to judge between firms, just wondering how do people differentiate between NY firms that aren't in the very top tier?

For example what do people think if you were choosing out of Jones Day, White & Case, Shearman & Sterling, Clifford Chance if you were definitely leaning corporate and considering firm health (especially going forward these 3 to 5 years)?

Out of those, Shearman, by far (for a lot of reasons).


Could you elaborate? Thanks! I do like a lot of the corporate people I've talked to at Shearman, but I was under the impression that hours are even longer at Shearman compared to JD, CC, etc.

Compensation is always at market, associates tend to report significantly higher satisfaction than all three -- check out the NY Regional and National AmLaw MidLevel Associate Survey (even if the hours are a little more, its better to be working with people you like), and they consistently give 100% offers to summers (only no-offering a single summer during the bloodbath of 2009). Plus, the building is literally above the E, M, and 6 trains, making it pretty convenient to get to.

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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:28 pm

Sup Kid wrote:Compensation is always at market, associates tend to report significantly higher satisfaction than all three -- check out the NY Regional and National AmLaw MidLevel Associate Survey (even if the hours are a little more, its better to be working with people you like), and they consistently give 100% offers to summers (only no-offering a single summer during the bloodbath of 2009). Plus, the building is literally above the E, M, and 6 trains, making it pretty convenient to get to.


How would you compare to Willkie?

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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Sup Kid » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:Compensation is always at market, associates tend to report significantly higher satisfaction than all three -- check out the NY Regional and National AmLaw MidLevel Associate Survey (even if the hours are a little more, its better to be working with people you like), and they consistently give 100% offers to summers (only no-offering a single summer during the bloodbath of 2009). Plus, the building is literally above the E, M, and 6 trains, making it pretty convenient to get to.


How would you compare to Willkie?

More favorably than the other firms. I would probably go on fit between Shearman and Willkie, as well as the type of work you want to do.

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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:Compensation is always at market, associates tend to report significantly higher satisfaction than all three -- check out the NY Regional and National AmLaw MidLevel Associate Survey (even if the hours are a little more, its better to be working with people you like), and they consistently give 100% offers to summers (only no-offering a single summer during the bloodbath of 2009). Plus, the building is literally above the E, M, and 6 trains, making it pretty convenient to get to.


How would you compare to Willkie?



Will you elaborate?

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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:Compensation is always at market, associates tend to report significantly higher satisfaction than all three -- check out the NY Regional and National AmLaw MidLevel Associate Survey (even if the hours are a little more, its better to be working with people you like), and they consistently give 100% offers to summers (only no-offering a single summer during the bloodbath of 2009). Plus, the building is literally above the E, M, and 6 trains, making it pretty convenient to get to.


How would you compare to Willkie?


Hmm how about Shearman v. Cahill for transactional work? Also which firm would have better exit options?

Anonymous User
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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 8:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Sup Kid wrote:Compensation is always at market, associates tend to report significantly higher satisfaction than all three -- check out the NY Regional and National AmLaw MidLevel Associate Survey (even if the hours are a little more, its better to be working with people you like), and they consistently give 100% offers to summers (only no-offering a single summer during the bloodbath of 2009). Plus, the building is literally above the E, M, and 6 trains, making it pretty convenient to get to.


How would you compare to Willkie?


Hmm how about Shearman v. Cahill for transactional work? Also which firm would have better exit options?


Shearman on both counts by far.

Anonymous User
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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:47 pm

akin or fried frank for NYC corp?

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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:akin or fried frank for NYC corp?


FF

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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Hmm how about Shearman v. Cahill for transactional work? Also which firm would have better exit options?


Shearman on both counts by far.


Is it really that big of a difference for associate positions? So the partner ppp doesn't really matter for this comparison?

Also added a poll

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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:57 am

What do people think about firms based in NYC and satellite offices when comparing these firms... Is it better at Shearman than say Gibson Dunn or Akin Gump since one is the NY Flagship and others are satellite?

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quakeroats
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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby quakeroats » Fri Sep 09, 2011 10:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Hmm how about Shearman v. Cahill for transactional work? Also which firm would have better exit options?


Shearman on both counts by far.


Is it really that big of a difference for associate positions? So the partner ppp doesn't really matter for this comparison?

Also added a poll


Shearman wins for transactional work, but Cahill generates more revenue per lawyer than everyone else on the list.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Nom Sawyer » Fri Sep 09, 2011 5:21 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Hmm how about Shearman v. Cahill for transactional work? Also which firm would have better exit options?


Shearman on both counts by far.


Is it really that big of a difference for associate positions? So the partner ppp doesn't really matter for this comparison?

Also added a poll


Shearman wins for transactional work, but Cahill generates more revenue per lawyer than everyone else on the list.


Wow I just checked and Cahill's profit per partner exceeds $3,000,000. Does this not trickle down in terms of associate positions/ training/ exit options, or is it mainly just due to the fact that Cahill is so strongly focused in its niche in capital markets?

Sup Kid
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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Sup Kid » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:57 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:Wow I just checked and Cahill's profit per partner exceeds $3,000,000. Does this not trickle down in terms of associate positions/ training/ exit options, or is it mainly just due to the fact that Cahill is so strongly focused in its niche in capital markets?

It's mainly due to the fact that Cahill takes eat-what-you-kill to the extreme and if partners don't have ~$5 million books of business, they are soon shown the door. Still, they paid above market bonuses this year, so if you like a free market system, high-yield debt or first amendment work, and working down in FiDi, go for it.

Renzo
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Re: Choosing Between V20-V30 NYC Firms

Postby Renzo » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:35 pm

If you want corporate work, I'd personally go with Fried Frank, because I like working downtown. Otherwise, I'd pick Shearman and Sterling.




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