On Plan Clerkships 2011

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:01 am

Somebody needs to get laid.

chipchip
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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby chipchip » Fri Sep 23, 2011 12:23 pm

Somebody needs to stop being anonymous!

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:33 pm

Hey 6th Circuit dude, do you happen to have any info regarding the reputations of the 7th Circuit judges as well?

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pany1985
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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby pany1985 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:38 pm

Bad news for anyone who accepted a 2-year clerkship: --LinkRemoved--

Summary - "[T]he Judicial Conference, at its September 13 meeting, voted to suspend all step increases and promotions for all federal court employees — of course, that includes law clerks — effective fiscal year 2012, which begins October 10th [of 2011]."


Looks like nobody should count on that nice 10k-or-so raise going into year two. :(

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Citizen Genet » Fri Sep 23, 2011 1:40 pm

Pany, any news on UCIs placement of clerks? I would be very interested to know.

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pany1985
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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby pany1985 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 2:13 pm

The career office hasn't published anything about clerkship numbers, so my only information comes from just talking to people (and admittedly I don't talk to everyone). Here are the numbers that I'm personally aware of, but there could very well be more.

3 district court
4 COA (either directly out of school or starting in 2013 after a district court clerkship)
1 state supreme court
1 bankruptcy


I'd bet there are others that I haven't heard about, but even if there aren't, that's not bad for a class of 59 students.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Citizen Genet » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:22 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/24/busin ... wanted=all

Timely NYT article. Great quote from the Koz:

“I’m not into cartels or collective action or things like that,” says Alex Kozinski, chief judge of the Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit in San Francisco, who has vocally criticized efforts to regulate the recruiting process. So when does he start recruiting? “At birth,” he says.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:51 pm

pany1985 wrote:The career office hasn't published anything about clerkship numbers, so my only information comes from just talking to people (and admittedly I don't talk to everyone). Here are the numbers that I'm personally aware of, but there could very well be more.

3 district court
4 COA (either directly out of school or starting in 2013 after a district court clerkship)
1 state supreme court
1 bankruptcy


I'd bet there are others that I haven't heard about, but even if there aren't, that's not bad for a class of 59 students.


I believe there are a few others to add to your list. As far as I know, there are 7 people with district court clerkships. A few of them might double-count against your list if people have multiple clerkships lined up.

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pany1985
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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby pany1985 » Fri Sep 23, 2011 5:54 pm

You're probably right. Like I said, I wouldn't be surprised at all if my count is a few clerkships short.

EDIT: A tipster informs me that the number of UCI students who have (so far) landed clerkships for themselves is 11. So I was indeed short on my count.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Tangerine Gleam » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:36 am

So, now that it's been a few weeks, is there any sense amongst applicants as to how things went this year compared to last? How did your results compare to your expectations?

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:14 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:So, now that it's been a few weeks, is there any sense amongst applicants as to how things went this year compared to last? How did your results compare to your expectations?


Can report at HYS level school it went very well, with most seeking article III clerkships getting them with judges high on their list. At worst, many students are defaulting to DCt clerkship and reapplying for the next year with their 1st choice judge, or going to a firm for a year.

Can also report that the "Plan" is a logistical nightmare for those applying broadly. The NYT article accurately describes seeking a clerkship, but living it is far worse. There has to be a better way for all concerned- med school matching type system would make the most sense.

One other observation, more COA judges are asking clerks to do DCt first. Future applicants might want to explore that issue with their schools' clerkship advisor- it can seriously change your plans.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:43 pm

At Georgetown I think things were kind of a disaster on the COA level. Went well with district courts. Texas, I gather (from the director of their clerkship outreach, who's visiting here), did a lot better.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:55 pm

CCN alum, applying for DCs. My experience was pretty sedate -- nothing at all like the NYT article. I sent out about 25 applications over the summer to judges in cities the family would be willing to relocate to for a year or two. I received five interviews, got an offer after one of the earlier ones, then cancelled the rest (including one that I was literally on the way to the airport for). The offer is with the judge I wanted the most by far -- most desirable city, great reputation (both for his opinions and for how he treats his clerks), etc.

So, for all of those whom struck out as 3Ls -- it's a whole different ballgame when you're applying as an alum. Though I have a question: My grades (top 20% or so) are pretty clearly waaay too low for a COA clerkship if I applied out of law school. Does that change at all applying as an alum out of a DC clerkship?

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby traydeuce » Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:59 pm

^^ I doubt it. There are tons of top 10% district clerks applying for those spots. Only if you wait a year and use your judge's recommendation do I think you make it. Unless his name has such cachet that it alone, on your resume, could propel you into a clerkship.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:06 pm

Only if you wait a year and use your judge's recommendation do I think you make it.


It's a two year clerkship, and I'd theoretically be applying towards the tail end of the first year. The judge also has a pretty good success rates in "promoting" his clerks -- per his current crop, about 25% move up. He also specifically mentioned it as something to consider trying to do in the interview, so I suspect that he's willing to make calls.

(Full disclosure: I actually don't think I'd have much of a chance. My grades were too low when I was in law school, and that was pre-ITE. Just trying to figure out whether I should even bother, though I guess I have 18 months or so to decide.)

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Only if you wait a year and use your judge's recommendation do I think you make it.


It's a two year clerkship, and I'd theoretically be applying towards the tail end of the first year. The judge also has a pretty good success rates in "promoting" his clerks -- per his current crop, about 25% move up. He also specifically mentioned it as something to consider trying to do in the interview, so I suspect that he's willing to make calls.

(Full disclosure: I actually don't think I'd have much of a chance. My grades were too low when I was in law school, and that was pre-ITE. Just trying to figure out whether I should even bother, though I guess I have 18 months or so to decide.)


Oh, well if it's a two-year, you never know with a strong recommendation, but it's improbable. Why'd you do two years?

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:11 pm

Oh, well if it's a two-year, you never know with a strong recommendation, but it's improbable. Why'd you do two years?


I generally only looked for two year clerkships, with a few exceptions. The thought is that it would make the post-clerkship job search a lot less hectic.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Only if you wait a year and use your judge's recommendation do I think you make it.


It's a two year clerkship, and I'd theoretically be applying towards the tail end of the first year. The judge also has a pretty good success rates in "promoting" his clerks -- per his current crop, about 25% move up. He also specifically mentioned it as something to consider trying to do in the interview, so I suspect that he's willing to make calls.

(Full disclosure: I actually don't think I'd have much of a chance. My grades were too low when I was in law school, and that was pre-ITE. Just trying to figure out whether I should even bother, though I guess I have 18 months or so to decide.)


Oh, well if it's a two-year, you never know with a strong recommendation, but it's improbable. Why'd you do two years?


A lot of District Courts only want two year clerks... Sadly.

No harm in trying for COA except the minimal cost of application materials and the stingy feeling of rejections so go for it. The main cost only comes when they offer interviews and you travel and at that point you are in the running for the job. Even with a two year clerkship you should start applying likely 6 months into it for afterwards. G.T.L. would be more help in these regards though. In fact just wait for him.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 1:33 pm

Even with a two year clerkship you should start applying likely 6 months into it for afterwards.


Agreed -- I was figuring late spring/early summer of the first clerkship year. But I don't start until next year, which puts applying 18 months or so out.

G.T.L. would be more help in these regards though. In fact just wait for him.


Eh. I'm pessimistic enough about my chances and doubtful enough that I'll even try that I'm not going to bother him. (So GTL, don't worry about chiming in.)

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:02 pm

Tangerine Gleam wrote:So, now that it's been a few weeks, is there any sense amongst applicants as to how things went this year compared to last? How did your results compare to your expectations?


At a top 10, in top 10%. I think things went generally ok, though the amount of randomness is absolutely crazy. I have a friend with good stats but didn't even receive any interviews. Also, when judges call affects when you schedule interviews (especially if you miss a call because you're on the line with a different judge), which can affect your clerkship because of exploding offers.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby traydeuce » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:26 pm

^^ Totally. Call order has a huge impact. That said, call order correlates to how interested in you they are in the first place.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby chipchip » Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:57 pm

I know at least 10 GULCers with circuit clerkships, and there may be more.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby IzziesGal » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:02 pm

I'll out myself now and no longer remain anonymous. 4 interviews (2 COAs and 2 Districts), and no offers. I think at the end of the day, it came down to my transcript....which admittedly isn't as strong as the competition's. I will retry as an alum. Congrats to everyone who got one!!!

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 3:13 pm

chipchip wrote:I know at least 10 GULCers with circuit clerkships, and there may be more.


There are more (almost positive you don't know me), but I think the number's like 15 or so. So said OCS.

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Re: On Plan Clerkships 2011

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So, for all of those whom struck out as 3Ls -- it's a whole different ballgame when you're applying as an alum. Though I have a question: My grades (top 20% or so) are pretty clearly waaay too low for a COA clerkship if I applied out of law school. Does that change at all applying as an alum out of a DC clerkship?



I am basically your twin and I got multiple COA interviews this year and landed my top choice @ a 2/7/9COA. I've known others who have done the same.




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