Firms to love

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sebastian0622
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Re: Firms to love

Postby sebastian0622 » Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:52 pm

GeePee wrote:
sebastian0622 wrote:This is easy: any firm that pays decent but doesn't work you to death. Basically, just a small sliver of firms, most of them probably small offices that fly under the radar and mostly hire laterals.

I don't care how well a firm treats me and how nice their office is, if I'm working 60+ hours per week, I will not be a happy person. I don't see how anyone could be.

You're in the wrong profession.


There are a lot of lawyers who average well under 60 hours per week. You might be in the wrong markets. :)

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Wait....what?!?! are you seriously talking about Sidley NY? They absolutely pay market, and the office is a decent size - about 350 (small compared to other firms headquartered in NY, but it's Sidley's second biggest office). Same sort of deal with the billable hour expectations - it's not on par with the big NY firms, but compared to most offices elsewhere it's pretty comparable.


What are the hours like at Sidley NY, compared to the average NY firm?

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 07, 2011 4:24 pm

Hughes Hubbard. Visited today for CB and loved it. They take great pride in the culture they create by only seeking people who will fit in the environment and contribute to the culture. You quickly get the vibe when you visit that this is a friendlier firm than most. That means a lot to me.

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snailio
Posts: 209
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Re: Firms to love

Postby snailio » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:01 am

Ok so we got the Gibson, Cleary, Ropes, Chadbourne, Patton Boggs, Patterson Belknap, MTO, Farella, Hughes Hubbard love….is that it? There haz to be moar...GO!

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:32 am

Jenner & Block.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 1:55 am

Vinson & Elkins

- Live like a king in non-NYC, non-DC markets
- Not obscenely leveraged
- Great place to be if you are a "Texan" and all that goes with that

http://blogs.dallasobserver.com/mixmast ... _twice.php

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bjsesq
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Re: Firms to love

Postby bjsesq » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:02 am

Bartlit Beck. Maybe Bartlit Beck. And yeah, probably Bartlit Beck.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 2:03 am

jenner ny/dc

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wait....what?!?! are you seriously talking about Sidley NY? They absolutely pay market, and the office is a decent size - about 350 (small compared to other firms headquartered in NY, but it's Sidley's second biggest office). Same sort of deal with the billable hour expectations - it's not on par with the big NY firms, but compared to most offices elsewhere it's pretty comparable.


What are the hours like at Sidley NY, compared to the average NY firm?


I would like to know this too. I get the impression that they're substantially the same. Sidley has 2,000 billables "required," while other NY firms either have 2,000 as a target or not requirement. That makes it seem tough, but when you look at the firms that have "no requirement," it becomes clear that those firms just work people so hard that a requirement is pointless (think V5/V10 firms).

My impression is that people work hard at Sidley NY, but no harder than peer firms similarly situated/regarded in NYC (V15).

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:30 am

Any thought on Willkie? Would you take Willkie over W+C, Cahill, or Dewey? What about Weil?

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:Any thought on Willkie? Would you take Willkie over W+C, Cahill, or Dewey? What about Weil?


I got the impression Weil was douchey.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:Any thought on Willkie? Would you take Willkie over W+C, Cahill, or Dewey? What about Weil?


The people I know at Willkie all seem to really like it. But they're also kind of frat guy/sorority girl types; whereas Dewey is supposedly more "nerdy". So those two are very different culturally.

As for economics: Willkie and Cahill both cut their summer classes in 2010, but only Cahill has returned to normal the past year+ (and they hired 3L's). White & Case and Weil have had/still have issues with deferrals, whereas Cahill and Willkie (as far as I know for the latter) do not. However, I think you need to figure out where you fit best/which firm has the strongest practice areas of those you are most interested in.

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Veyron
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Re: Firms to love

Postby Veyron » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:43 am

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he,
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

logan
Posts: 32
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Re: Firms to love

Postby logan » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:52 am

Veyron wrote:It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he,
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!


Moral:

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!

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bjsesq
TLS Poet Laureate
Posts: 13383
Joined: Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:02 am

Re: Firms to love

Postby bjsesq » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:04 pm

logan wrote:
Veyron wrote:It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind.

The First approach'd the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain," quoth he,
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Then, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
Is very like a rope!"

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!


Moral:

So, oft in theologic wars
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!


These several lines, are fucking dumb as shit
if you want to do better, post a picture of a tit.
Your post is less substantive than one of gdane's farts,
and posting random poetry doesn't make you smart.

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MC Southstar
Posts: 1238
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Re: Firms to love

Postby MC Southstar » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:09 pm

Shut the fuck up.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wait....what?!?! are you seriously talking about Sidley NY? They absolutely pay market, and the office is a decent size - about 350 (small compared to other firms headquartered in NY, but it's Sidley's second biggest office). Same sort of deal with the billable hour expectations - it's not on par with the big NY firms, but compared to most offices elsewhere it's pretty comparable.


What are the hours like at Sidley NY, compared to the average NY firm?


I would like to know this too. I get the impression that they're substantially the same. Sidley has 2,000 billables "required," while other NY firms either have 2,000 as a target or not requirement. That makes it seem tough, but when you look at the firms that have "no requirement," it becomes clear that those firms just work people so hard that a requirement is pointless (think V5/V10 firms).

My impression is that people work hard at Sidley NY, but no harder than peer firms similarly situated/regarded in NYC (V15).


2,000 is about right. However, unlike some V15s (or more like maybe V5 - some V10), there's not the insane 2500 + expectation for bonuses.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273107
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wait....what?!?! are you seriously talking about Sidley NY? They absolutely pay market, and the office is a decent size - about 350 (small compared to other firms headquartered in NY, but it's Sidley's second biggest office). Same sort of deal with the billable hour expectations - it's not on par with the big NY firms, but compared to most offices elsewhere it's pretty comparable.


What are the hours like at Sidley NY, compared to the average NY firm?


I would like to know this too. I get the impression that they're substantially the same. Sidley has 2,000 billables "required," while other NY firms either have 2,000 as a target or not requirement. That makes it seem tough, but when you look at the firms that have "no requirement," it becomes clear that those firms just work people so hard that a requirement is pointless (think V5/V10 firms).

My impression is that people work hard at Sidley NY, but no harder than peer firms similarly situated/regarded in NYC (V15).


My info comes from knowing people at Sidley in Chi, but the cultures of both offices are apparently similar, so take from this what you will. The people on partner track are in the office till 8 or 9 every night & work at least 10- or 11-hour days, similar to most NYC biglaw. Other people work varying hours based on their own personal situations. For example, some working mothers have extremely flexible hours & the capacity to work from home, and don't work anything close to 10 hours a day. Also, people who are planning on leaving for another job opportunity (maybe in-house work, maybe a completely unrelated career) don't seem to kill themselves in order to bring their hours up much higher than 2,000. So while you obviously have to expect to work very hard for your first couple years like you would anywhere else, I think that what you do after that is more a function of where you are in life and what you want from the job than keyed to any particular requirements or expectations.

One note on bonuses is that while you will get the normal Cravath market bonus for making 2,000 hours, with the hours you work on top of that, your bonus will increase proportionally (not sure of the scale, sorry). Nice thing to know. :)

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snailio
Posts: 209
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Re: Firms to love

Postby snailio » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:50 pm

snailio wrote:Ok so we got the Gibson, Cleary, Ropes, Chadbourne, Patton Boggs, Patterson Belknap, MTO, Farella, Hughes Hubbard love….is that it? There haz to be moar...GO!



Alright adding Jenner & Block, Bartlit Beck, Vinson & Ellis....anymore?...Hey on the "Firms to Avoid" thread they got like 2500ish...we have what 12?...can I get a bakers dozen at least...any love for say Paul Hastings, Debevoise, A&P?... anything?

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:53 pm

snailio wrote:
snailio wrote:Ok so we got the Gibson, Cleary, Ropes, Chadbourne, Patton Boggs, Patterson Belknap, MTO, Farella, Hughes Hubbard love….is that it? There haz to be moar...GO!



Alright adding Jenner & Block, Bartlit Beck, Vinson & Ellis....anymore?...Hey on the "Firms to Avoid" thread they got like 2500ish...we have what 12?...can I get a bakers dozen at least...any love for say Paul Hastings, Debevoise, A&P?... anything?


maybe that's because there are no more than twelve firms anyone could possibly love, especially in nyc biglaw. we haven't picked a very easy lifestyle... :(

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:00 pm

I think that Barack Ferrazzano has about as much in terms of QOL that you could possibly ask for from a law firm paying biglaw salary. Just an insanely awesome firm to work for. Everybody is incredible and the perks are great.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:08 pm

K&E? OMM? Cadwalader?

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:K&E? OMM? Cadwalader?


During my screener I was asked "Why Cadwalader." I told them that I enjoyed a firm that knew how to cut the fat and I appreciated the fact that in order to have a true meritocracy, some of the slackers had to go. I got a nod of approval.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:K&E? OMM? Cadwalader?


I can't be the only person who has been severely warned off Cadwalader by both 3Ls and associates/partners I've met at other firms. It always seems to happen that when firms with an abusive/unpleasant culture come up in conversation, that name is mentioned. Everyone's experience will be different, obviously, but I don't think Cadwalader belongs on the "firms to love" thread.

Anonymous User
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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:K&E? OMM? Cadwalader?


Am I the only one who read this list as sarcasm?




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