Firms to love

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Anonymous User
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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
snailio wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What firms to love in TX?



Susman?


Absolutely. They pay the best bonuses and have tons of perks. If you can hack the hours, you make partner. And partner compensation is amazing. Also, you actually get to practice law.


Hours are Susman are bruuuutal though. Only firm I did a callback at where people were noticeably tired, bags under their eyes, etc. Sure the money is good but I don't know if i'd put it on the "firms to love" list.


completely untrue

I worked there as a summer and I can attest that the hours aren't any worse than your average NYC biglaw firm. Associates I worked with said they work about 2500-2700 hours a year. Sure that is HIGH but it isn't that high compared to firms like Cravath. Also as a Susman associate a lot of that time is spend doing way more substantive work than associates at almost any other firm in the country. Susman associates spend most of their time writing motions/briefs, taking/defending depositions, arguing their own motions at hearings, etc. This is stuff that associates at other firms have to wait until 5th/6th year.

I personally would take 2500 hours doing actual lawyering and getting paid 200k than working 2000 hours being a discovery drone making 170k.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What firms to love in TX?


HayBoo is a pretty good place.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
snailio wrote:Absolutely. They pay the best bonuses and have tons of perks. If you can hack the hours, you make partner. And partner compensation is amazing. Also, you actually get to practice law.


Hours are Susman are bruuuutal though. Only firm I did a callback at where people were noticeably tired, bags under their eyes, etc. Sure the money is good but I don't know if i'd put it on the "firms to love" list.


completely untrue

I worked there as a summer and I can attest that the hours aren't any worse than your average NYC biglaw firm. Associates I worked with said they work about 2500-2700 hours a year. Sure that is HIGH but it isn't that high compared to firms like Cravath. Also as a Susman associate a lot of that time is spend doing way more substantive work than associates at almost any other firm in the country. Susman associates spend most of their time writing motions/briefs, taking/defending depositions, arguing their own motions at hearings, etc. This is stuff that associates at other firms have to wait until 5th/6th year.

I personally would take 2500 hours doing actual lawyering and getting paid 200k than working 2000 hours being a discovery drone making 170k.


Okay, enjoy your extra 500 hours for a marginal 30k. Sure that's worth it to some people, but not to others. And definitely not enough to get it on the "firms to love" list.

nonprofit-prophet
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Re: Firms to love

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Okay, enjoy your extra 500 hours for a marginal 30k. Sure that's worth it to some people, but not to others. And definitely not enough to get it on the "firms to love" list.


It's not about the 30k extra as an associate. It's about the work you get as an associate. As a 5th year, you've probably tried more cases than many big law partners.

Also, the difference in pay once you hit partner can be pretty huge.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What firms to love in TX?


HayBoo is a pretty good place.


Elaborate? I'm trying to decide between HayBoo Dallas and Akin Gump Houston and am having a hard time.

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Old Gregg
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Re: Firms to love

Postby Old Gregg » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:00 am

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Okay, enjoy your extra 500 hours for a marginal 30k. Sure that's worth it to some people, but not to others. And definitely not enough to get it on the "firms to love" list.


It's not about the 30k extra as an associate. It's about the work you get as an associate. As a 5th year, you've probably tried more cases than many big law partners.


Let's not overstate things, please.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:10 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Okay, enjoy your extra 500 hours for a marginal 30k. Sure that's worth it to some people, but not to others. And definitely not enough to get it on the "firms to love" list.


It's not about the 30k extra as an associate. It's about the work you get as an associate. As a 5th year, you've probably tried more cases than many big law partners.


Let's not overstate things, please.


http://abovethelaw.com/2012/07/buying-in-trying-for-more-trials/

This doesn't seem to be an uncommon sentiment for big law (especially paragraph 4). Yet, at boutiques like Susman, associates are going to trial, on average, once a year. It doesn't seem that crazy, since Plaintiff focused boutiques want to try things, whereas big firms generally want to settle.

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ph14
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Re: Firms to love

Postby ph14 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:12 am

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Fresh Prince wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Okay, enjoy your extra 500 hours for a marginal 30k. Sure that's worth it to some people, but not to others. And definitely not enough to get it on the "firms to love" list.


It's not about the 30k extra as an associate. It's about the work you get as an associate. As a 5th year, you've probably tried more cases than many big law partners.


Let's not overstate things, please.


http://abovethelaw.com/2012/07/buying-in-trying-for-more-trials/

This doesn't seem to be an uncommon sentiment for big law (especially paragraph 4). Yet, at boutiques like Susman, associates are going to trial, on average, once a year. It doesn't seem that crazy, since Plaintiff focused boutiques want to try things, whereas big firms generally want to settle.


I think a firm that is as much of a sweat shop as Susman cannot be on a firms to love list.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:42 am

Dechert? Mayer Brown?

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clintonius
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Re: Firms to love

Postby clintonius » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:Dechert?

Didn't they no-offer over a third of their summers?

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:49 am

clintonius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Dechert?

Didn't they no-offer over a third of their summers?


Nope. They no-offered three of their summers, out of 41 in NYC office. From SAs who worked there, that these three individuals did not receive offers came as a shock to no one.

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clintonius
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Re: Firms to love

Postby clintonius » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
clintonius wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Dechert?

Didn't they no-offer over a third of their summers?


Nope. They no-offered three of their summers, out of 41 in NYC office. From SAs who worked there, that these three individuals did not receive offers came as a shock to no one.

Well, never mind then. I heard they no-offered 12/32. Different office? Am I thinking of a different firm?

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:12 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What firms to love in TX?


HayBoo is a pretty good place.


Elaborate? I'm trying to decide between HayBoo Dallas and Akin Gump Houston and am having a hard time.


Can't speak to Akin Gump, but HB Dallas has generally humane hours and great people. Partners are approachable, associates hang out together, and the work is top-notch if Dallas is where you want to be.

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crazycanuck
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Re: Firms to love

Postby crazycanuck » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:16 am

My mind is boggled that people ITT are saying 60 hours a week makes a great QOL/is reasonable/whatever else.

How many people here ITT consistently worked 60 hours a week? (and don't say you do it in school, because you don't)

DO you people not enjoy doing fun things?

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sundance95
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Re: Firms to love

Postby sundance95 » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:28 am

Anonymous User wrote:How about an SF mid-size that has great rep, good work and pays market? Associates get, and usually use much of, 4 weeks vacation. Fourth-year associates and beyond get 1 month paid sabbatical on top of that.

Associates report that even if you don't hit billable expectation of 1,850 you're generally fine, as long as it's not a year-after-year thing. Caveat: under 1,950 billables and you're paid "only" $145K.

Would I be absolutely stupid to choose this one instead of Quinn SF? How about instead of STB Palo Alto?

Take Farella

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: Firms to love

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:30 am

crazycanuck wrote:My mind is boggled that people ITT are saying 60 hours a week makes a great QOL/is reasonable/whatever else.

How many people here ITT consistently worked 60 hours a week? (and don't say you do it in school, because you don't)

DO you people not enjoy doing fun things?


60 hours a week isn't bad, but it's right on the tipping point of becoming miserable. 70+ is the true sweet spot for hating life.

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crazycanuck
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Re: Firms to love

Postby crazycanuck » Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:36 am

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:
crazycanuck wrote:My mind is boggled that people ITT are saying 60 hours a week makes a great QOL/is reasonable/whatever else.

How many people here ITT consistently worked 60 hours a week? (and don't say you do it in school, because you don't)

DO you people not enjoy doing fun things?


60 hours a week isn't bad, but it's right on the tipping point of becoming miserable. 70+ is the true sweet spot for hating life.


Yeah, 60 hours a week is where the bitterness/unhappiness sets in, 61 is miserable, 70+ is contemplating hanging yourself by your tie.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:18 am

ph14 wrote:
I think a firm that is as much of a sweat shop as Susman cannot be on a firms to love list.


Susman Godfrey attorneys work a lot of hours, but the firm is not a "sweatshop". The fact is, a young lawyer that hopes to make partner is going to have to work hard at any top tier firm. Everyone has to pay their dues.

At Susman, rather than paying your dues preparing nice memos for the file, right away you're writing briefs, depositioning key witnesses, arguing to juries, and cultivating clients. From day one, you're learning by doing, not sitting fifth chair (or worse) behind a slew of partners and senior associates taking all the credit for your work. Time flies fast when you're standing up, being a lawyer. You'll also be logging a significant number of hours traveling, which can be grueling. But it's also exciting, if you're the type, to check into the team hotel and get ready for the big game.

You're treated like an equal from day one. You may be working on the weekend to get ready for that big trial, but guess what, the partner on the case is right there next to you in the trenches. You want a sweatshop? Go to one of those V10's, where the senior partner is delegating work to the closet offices of anonymous associates from the comfort of his ski chalet. Susman's ownership culture is reflected by its formal structure: every attorney has an equal vote, from Steve Susman down to the newest associate, on every new matter and hire. And the firm has about twice as many partners as associates, so if you stick around, you're very likely to make partner. They're not banking on attrition--to the contrary, they need those associates to stick around.

Plus, Susman attorneys can feel good about what they do. Maybe you like sticking it to the man sometimes, not just defending big corporations against people they've wronged. At Susman, about 60% of the cases are plaintiffs' cases taken on contingency, so you'll have that opportunity.

Plus, the plaintiffs' bar attracts gregarious, adventurous types. At Susman, attorneys work hard but they play hard too. Many attorneys and their families are also close friends, something you don't see all that often at big law firms. Susman people enjoy hanging out with one another.

Add all that to the fact that you earn superior compensation (first years got $40,000 bonuses last year), and you certainly aren't looking at a sweatshop. In fact, you've got yourself a "firm to love."

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:51 am

crazycanuck wrote:My mind is boggled that people ITT are saying 60 hours a week makes a great QOL/is reasonable/whatever else.

How many people here ITT consistently worked 60 hours a week? (and don't say you do it in school, because you don't)

DO you people not enjoy doing fun things?


It makes a great QOL considering you are making 160,000+ a year,esp. since you can afford to employ someone to clean your house and maybe do some of your grocery shopping or other time-sucking tasks. Plus, a ton of the population is working as many hours at mind-numbing, back breaking jobs for substantially less compensation. Relativity.

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Old Gregg
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Re: Firms to love

Postby Old Gregg » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
ph14 wrote:
I think a firm that is as much of a sweat shop as Susman cannot be on a firms to love list.


Susman Godfrey attorneys work a lot of hours, but the firm is not a "sweatshop". The fact is, a young lawyer that hopes to make partner is going to have to work hard at any top tier firm. Everyone has to pay their dues.

At Susman, rather than paying your dues preparing nice memos for the file, right away you're writing briefs, depositioning key witnesses, arguing to juries, and cultivating clients. From day one, you're learning by doing, not sitting fifth chair (or worse) behind a slew of partners and senior associates taking all the credit for your work. Time flies fast when you're standing up, being a lawyer. You'll also be logging a significant number of hours traveling, which can be grueling. But it's also exciting, if you're the type, to check into the team hotel and get ready for the big game.

You're treated like an equal from day one. You may be working on the weekend to get ready for that big trial, but guess what, the partner on the case is right there next to you in the trenches. You want a sweatshop? Go to one of those V10's, where the senior partner is delegating work to the closet offices of anonymous associates from the comfort of his ski chalet. Susman's ownership culture is reflected by its formal structure: every attorney has an equal vote, from Steve Susman down to the newest associate, on every new matter and hire. And the firm has about twice as many partners as associates, so if you stick around, you're very likely to make partner. They're not banking on attrition--to the contrary, they need those associates to stick around.

Plus, Susman attorneys can feel good about what they do. Maybe you like sticking it to the man sometimes, not just defending big corporations against people they've wronged. At Susman, about 60% of the cases are plaintiffs' cases taken on contingency, so you'll have that opportunity.

Plus, the plaintiffs' bar attracts gregarious, adventurous types. At Susman, attorneys work hard but they play hard too. Many attorneys and their families are also close friends, something you don't see all that often at big law firms. Susman people enjoy hanging out with one another.

Add all that to the fact that you earn superior compensation (first years got $40,000 bonuses last year), and you certainly aren't looking at a sweatshop. In fact, you've got yourself a "firm to love."


Please stop copying and pasting from the recruiting brochure.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 8:36 am

Vinson & Elkins

Great people, decent work-life balance (for a big firm), reasonable face time expectations.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Nynaeve » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:15 am

Anonymous User wrote:Dechert? Mayer Brown?

I was at MB NYC this summer. Hours seemed reasonable and folks seemed happy. There seemed to likewise be a lot of work to go around, and they are increasing their summer class size.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Firms to love

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:18 am

Fresh Prince wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ph14 wrote:
I think a firm that is as much of a sweat shop as Susman cannot be on a firms to love list.


Susman Godfrey attorneys work a lot of hours, but the firm is not a "sweatshop". The fact is, a young lawyer that hopes to make partner is going to have to work hard at any top tier firm. Everyone has to pay their dues.

At Susman, rather than paying your dues preparing nice memos for the file, right away you're writing briefs, depositioning key witnesses, arguing to juries, and cultivating clients. From day one, you're learning by doing, not sitting fifth chair (or worse) behind a slew of partners and senior associates taking all the credit for your work. Time flies fast when you're standing up, being a lawyer. You'll also be logging a significant number of hours traveling, which can be grueling. But it's also exciting, if you're the type, to check into the team hotel and get ready for the big game.

You're treated like an equal from day one. You may be working on the weekend to get ready for that big trial, but guess what, the partner on the case is right there next to you in the trenches. You want a sweatshop? Go to one of those V10's, where the senior partner is delegating work to the closet offices of anonymous associates from the comfort of his ski chalet. Susman's ownership culture is reflected by its formal structure: every attorney has an equal vote, from Steve Susman down to the newest associate, on every new matter and hire. And the firm has about twice as many partners as associates, so if you stick around, you're very likely to make partner. They're not banking on attrition--to the contrary, they need those associates to stick around.

Plus, Susman attorneys can feel good about what they do. Maybe you like sticking it to the man sometimes, not just defending big corporations against people they've wronged. At Susman, about 60% of the cases are plaintiffs' cases taken on contingency, so you'll have that opportunity.

Plus, the plaintiffs' bar attracts gregarious, adventurous types. At Susman, attorneys work hard but they play hard too. Many attorneys and their families are also close friends, something you don't see all that often at big law firms. Susman people enjoy hanging out with one another.

Add all that to the fact that you earn superior compensation (first years got $40,000 bonuses last year), and you certainly aren't looking at a sweatshop. In fact, you've got yourself a "firm to love."


Please stop copying and pasting from the recruiting brochure.


+1. I'd bet $20 this is a 2L who just received an offer from Susman a week ago.

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Re: Firms to love

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:42 am

somewhatwayward wrote:
+1. I'd bet $20 this is a 2L who just received an offer from Susman a week ago.


Good instincts, but that's a losing bet.

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somewhatwayward
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Re: Firms to love

Postby somewhatwayward » Tue Sep 25, 2012 10:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
somewhatwayward wrote:
+1. I'd bet $20 this is a 2L who just received an offer from Susman a week ago.


Good instincts, but that's a losing bet.


Well, since you are anon, I have absolutely no way of verifying that, but I will put it a different way: I'd bet $20 that post was not written by someone who has actually experience all of the things in the post (being a fifth year who has chaired more trials than a big law partner and so forth...)

It does not matter that much to me because I am doing transactional work, so I am going to a V5 in NYC to do so. It just amazes me all the pro-lit-boutique trolling on this forum.




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