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No worries. In this economy, you should always tell 'em they're your first choice (even if they're not).

TTH wrote:No worries. In this economy, you should always tell 'em they're your first choice (even if they're not).

"I'm a nice guy, see this backpat, see this pink tie?"

lulz, that was pretty good

meshtdagn wrote:
People who are suggesting it's no big deal to lie about a firm being your #1 choice are either
a) lacking in any serious business experience
b) purposefully leading you astray because they are trolls
c) not appreciative of the value of professionalism
d) have been there, done that with the whole interviewing and summer associate thing and realize that no one gives half as much of a fuck as you think they do.

The guy didn't lie,his circumstances changed, and the chances that anyone will remember who this guy is a year from now/that it will affect his career or reputation in any meaningful way is slim. I don't advocate blatant lying, but I do advocate that you do what's best for you as tactfully as you possibly can.

I'll use myself as an example. I accepted an offer at my number one choice firm (and I told them they were number 1), and a firm that I had some good personal relationships at, then had to renege due to some new circumstances. I took the time to explain what was going on to the firm, and tried to work out a way for me not to have to renege. In the end that wasn't possible, but I handled it with professionalism, and was able to maintain my relationships with the folks at that firm as a result. No hard feelings, no harm, no foul, and no effect on my hire-ability in the community (got subsequent offers from local firms and have maintained relationships with the specific firm).

A lot of people on this site (and in life) seem to try to fit things into these rigid black and white definitions of right and wrong. The fact of the matter is, being that rigid just sets you up for failure and disappointment. Professionalism in my specific situation was addressing the issue immediately, and taking the time to try to work something out that could work for both parties. If I had stuck to the rigid definition that some of you espouse, I would have deferred to misguided feelings of "loyalty" and "hurting my school," and ended up in a situation that wasn't best for me or the trajectory of my career. As it stands, my school wasn't hurt (in fact my CSO counselor advised me to handle the situation in exactly the way I did), no one branded me disloyal, and I ended up where I needed to be.

Anyway, that's my two cents...Over/Under 10 mins for me to be attacked by a 0/1L?

Aqualibrium wrote:

meshtdagn wrote:
People who are suggesting it's no big deal to lie about a firm being your #1 choice are either
a) lacking in any serious business experience
b) purposefully leading you astray because they are trolls
c) not appreciative of the value of professionalism
d) have been there, done that with the whole interviewing and summer associate thing and realize that no one gives half as much of a fuck as you think they do.

The guy didn't lie,his circumstances changed, and the chances that anyone will remember who this guy is a year from now/that it will affect his career or reputation in any meaningful way is slim. I don't advocate blatant lying, but I do advocate that you do what's best for you as tactfully as you possibly can.

I'll use myself as an example. I accepted an offer at my number one choice firm (and I told them they were number 1), and a firm that I had some good personal relationships at, then had to renege due to some new circumstances. I took the time to explain what was going on to the firm, and tried to work out a way for me not to have to renege. In the end that wasn't possible, but I handled it with professionalism, and was able to maintain my relationships with the folks at that firm as a result. No hard feelings, no harm, no foul, and no effect on my hire-ability in the community (got subsequent offers from local firms and have maintained relationships with the specific firm).

A lot of people on this site (and in life) seem to try to fit things into these rigid black and white definitions of right and wrong. The fact of the matter is, being that rigid just sets you up for failure and disappointment. Professionalism in my specific situation was addressing the issue immediately, and taking the time to try to work something out that could work for both parties. If I had stuck to the rigid definition that some of you espouse, I would have deferred to misguided feelings of "loyalty" and "hurting my school," and ended up in a situation that wasn't best for me or the trajectory of my career. As it stands, my school wasn't hurt (in fact my CSO counselor advised me to handle the situation in exactly the way I did), no one branded me disloyal, and I ended up where I needed to be.

Anyway, that's my two cents...Over/Under 10 mins for me to be attacked by a 0/1L?

This is FAR too reasonable for TLS. I call flame!!!

Aqualibrium wrote: The guy didn't lie

Anonymous User wrote:OP here- I emailed the recruiter after my CB and wrote "If XXX were to extend an offer, I would accept."

Maybe we have different definitions of lying....

Also, lol @ changing circumstances being "a firm I didn't expect to accept me actually did." It's not like he's deciding to pick a firm in another market to care for a sick family member.

But do what you have to do, OP. I doubt there will be any real implications in the future for this one act, but you might want to be careful about delivering promises you're not going to keep later on in life.

Anonymous User wrote:I told my former #1 choice that I would accept an offer there if extended. Got an offer. Also got an offer from a V5 that I totally didn't expect to get an offer at.

How bad is it to renege? Consequences? Firms are in different cities if that changes anything.

Thanks.

How are you getting an offer when you clearly are too dumb to even understand the basics of contracts?

You made an offer to them that you would accept any offer they made in order to entice them to give you one.

They accepted (your yield being consideration), and you got your offer.

That's very different from simply saying you're there first choice, it's a breach. Are they going to sue you over it? No. Are you slimey? yes.

This is a simple issue of why you don't say stuff unless you're totally sure of it. The fact that you wrote an email putting it out there for all time that you'd accept an offer was a misstep.

BUT: you shouldn't let your lack of foresight force you into taking your second choice. If you really don't want to work there, then don't. The people at number two firm will forget you exist within the week. You will be at the job of your choice, and within a few weeks you wont be thinking about this either.

Everyone has made bad decisions and ended up with egg on their face. It's a function of being a novice in the professional world, where the things you say have consequences. Just learn from it, and get back in the saddle. You have two offers, one of which is at a dream firm. Go celebrate with drinks, dinner, and friends. And for the love of god don't talk about this to them... most people would kill to have your particular "problem."

Helmholtz wrote:

Aqualibrium wrote: The guy didn't lie

Anonymous User wrote:OP here- I emailed the recruiter after my CB and wrote "If XXX were to extend an offer, I would accept."

Maybe we have different definitions of lying....

Also, lol @ changing circumstances being "a firm I didn't expect to accept me actually did." It's not like he's deciding to pick a firm in another market to care for a sick family member.

But do what you have to do, OP. I doubt there will be any real implications in the future for this one act, but you might want to be careful about delivering promises you're not going to keep later on in life.

I don't think that's a lie. A lie would be emailing her that message knowing that he was telling the same thing to others. At the time, he truly felt that firm was his best option and thus his number one choice. The recruiter probably doesn't even remember him saying that. IMO and in my experience, a lot of the things we as law students think are significant boosts to our employment prospects can end up being quite inconsequential.

Aqualibrium wrote:

Helmholtz wrote:

Aqualibrium wrote: The guy didn't lie

Anonymous User wrote:OP here- I emailed the recruiter after my CB and wrote "If XXX were to extend an offer, I would accept."

Maybe we have different definitions of lying....

Also, lol @ changing circumstances being "a firm I didn't expect to accept me actually did." It's not like he's deciding to pick a firm in another market to care for a sick family member.

But do what you have to do, OP. I doubt there will be any real implications in the future for this one act, but you might want to be careful about delivering promises you're not going to keep later on in life.

I don't think that's a lie.

It was a lie in the sense that he said, "if you do X, I will do Y." X was done, Y was not done as promised.

Aqualibrium wrote:A lie would be emailing her that message knowing that he was telling the same thing to others. At the time, he truly felt that firm was his best option and thus his number one choice.

He didn't think the firm was his best option. He even had a callback at the firm he preferred! How many people get offers from firms they have callback with? A LOT! He had to know that it wasn't completely out of the question to get an offer from his actual #1 firm. This seems like a pretty intentional falsehood to me. It was probably a strategic move to maximize his chances, and that's fine, but it was still an intentional lie.

The recruiter probably doesn't even remember him saying that. IMO and in my experience, a lot of the things we as law students think are significant boosts to our employment prospects can end up being quite inconsequential.

Yeah, I agree with you. Hopefully (for the OP), nothing ever comes out of it. I doubt it will, but whatever. Hopefully, the takeaway lesson isn't "make promises to people, renege on them, and nothing bad will happen." I would completely understand if OP's life situations really did change, and he needed to go elsewhere. But another firm (WITH WHOM HE ALREADY HAD A CALLBACK) giving an unexpected offer doesn't really cut it in my book. Also, I think it matters to me that he went the extra mile beyond "zOMG! ur my top choice!" to "if you give me an offer, I'll accept!!".

Is there a good way to tell a firm that it is your top choice?


I've thought about doing it a few times but I can't think of anything I could say beyond parroting their advertising and closing with a cliche...