No doubt. I can't say I would have turned down an offer based on nothing but geography, but it was a huge consideration for me between peer firms.Anonymous User wrote:I think a lot of people underestimate the effect that a shitty commute/area can have on your experience. Not to say that it outweighs culture and so forth, but using 'utterly indifferent' as the line at which location matters is really shortsighted, I think. I've lived all over NYC for 10 years (and worked in the city as well), and the worst periods of that time, even without accounting for quality of people, were the ones where my day was bookended by a commute that made me feel like a rat in a test lab.Anonymous User wrote:Considering location within NYC is not very intelligent IMO, even considering that the work you do at these firms will be very similar, unless you're utterly indifferent to the type of people you will be working with, the environment you will be working in, and the exit opportunities you will have
Also, Times Square is a suppurating chancre on the face of an otherwise unobjectionable city. Enter at your peril
Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB Forum
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
Having worked both in midtown and downtown prior to law school, I can attest to how important location is to your overall quality of life on workdays. Commuting is one of those things that seems trivial in the big picture, but I urge people to give some serious thought to the location factor when they select an office.Renzo wrote:No doubt. I can't say I would have turned down an offer based on nothing but geography, but it was a huge consideration for me between peer firms.Anonymous User wrote:I think a lot of people underestimate the effect that a shitty commute/area can have on your experience. Not to say that it outweighs culture and so forth, but using 'utterly indifferent' as the line at which location matters is really shortsighted, I think. I've lived all over NYC for 10 years (and worked in the city as well), and the worst periods of that time, even without accounting for quality of people, were the ones where my day was bookended by a commute that made me feel like a rat in a test lab.Anonymous User wrote:Considering location within NYC is not very intelligent IMO, even considering that the work you do at these firms will be very similar, unless you're utterly indifferent to the type of people you will be working with, the environment you will be working in, and the exit opportunities you will have
Also, Times Square is a suppurating chancre on the face of an otherwise unobjectionable city. Enter at your peril
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
Compare to Debevoise?
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
Ann. because I do not want to out myself from earlier posts--What are the chances of landing any one of these firms (mainly STB) from Notre Dame Top 10%? Or would it be better to try a transfer and then try my luck?-Sorry in advance for hijacking the thread
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
If you're a 1L anticipating being top 10%, you should gtfo of this thread and get back to the library.Anonymous User wrote:Ann. because I do not want to out myself from earlier posts--What are the chances of landing any one of these firms (mainly STB) from Notre Dame Top 10%? Or would it be better to try a transfer and then try my luck?-Sorry in advance for hijacking the thread
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
Not "anticipating" anything. Just a simple question about recruiting by the firms-not claiming I would ever get there; I would just like to know people's thoughts on it
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
I can tell you:Anonymous User wrote:Not "anticipating" anything. Just a simple question about recruiting by the firms-not claiming I would ever get there; I would just like to know people's thoughts on it
Cravath is out unless you have the work experience/resume; being top 1-5% makes it possible (it's never probable), but transferring won't help unless it's to HYS.
S&C - see Cravath
STB - out because they only want schools "at which they conduct actual on-campus interviews"
But really, stop hypothesizing; 90% chance you won't be.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
But really, stop hypothesizing; 90% chance you won't be.
He has a 50% chance of making the top 10%. He'll either make it or he won't.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
Because the lateral market is hot and firms are desperate to fill their mid-level ranks.RVP11 wrote:LOL no.Anonymous User wrote:Yeah, but if you've worked for S&C, it can't be THAT hard to lateral to DPW or Cleary or STB or Paul Weiss or somewhere comparably prestigious that isn't a giant vat of misery after a few years.Fresh Prince wrote:Prestige?Anonymous User wrote: Curious how they retain any nice people at all, though. S&C has such an awful reputation. Maybe the interviewers are just the best actors.
This is the exact type of statement that makes TLS so laughable. People here seem to think that you can always lateral to a lower Vault firm. Cleary, STB, and PW aren't desperate to take S&C's mid-levels. Why would they be?
That said, starting out at S&C and lateraling to STB when you have the latter option from the get-go is comically retarded.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
This is a really silly come back. As an SA you meet a ton of people, often in various states of inebriation. You will NOT get a good idea of the workload, etc, as an SA, but you do get to talk with associates in a candid setting and see what their lives are like.Fresh Prince wrote:Report back a year after you've started.Though I have no real basis of comparison, after being an SA at S&C, I can say that the reputation of it being a terrible workplace is grossly exagerrated. Many of the worst stories concerned the same handful of partners (some of which may have been apocryphal), but it was generally a very congenial place in my experience. Associates were frank about what they didn't like about the firm (terrible hours, like everywhere else), but a poor atmosphere was not a common complaint.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
I interviewed at all of the V10 except Wachtell and S&C and thought Cravath and Simpson were the ones that really stood out. Both were the only places where I thought people acted genuine and were the most honest about their work life (as opposed to shelling out the marketing buzzwords they got from HR or being overly fratty and telling me how much they party)
I get the sense that while each of these firms has some real superstar top-notch partners, Cravath has the highest number of these people. That coupled with the fact that you get directly paired with a partner and work with them on a daily basis was a big factor in my decision (although the downside of this, as mentioned, is that your experience is highly dependent on your assignment).
I get the sense that while each of these firms has some real superstar top-notch partners, Cravath has the highest number of these people. That coupled with the fact that you get directly paired with a partner and work with them on a daily basis was a big factor in my decision (although the downside of this, as mentioned, is that your experience is highly dependent on your assignment).
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
My aunt is a STB partner. During family holidays (the ones she attends), she hides in the bathroom to answer messages on her blackberry. We went on a family camping trip and she paid to set up wireless when she found out she wouldn't have internet access for the weekend. I can't tell you how many times we've tried to get together only for her to cancel due to something at work coming up -- wait actually I can, literally every time I've tried. Who knows, maybe the partners work 85+ hour weeks to allow the associates to frolic freely throughout the office, but I doubt it.Anonymous User wrote:This is a really silly come back. As an SA you meet a ton of people, often in various states of inebriation. You will NOT get a good idea of the workload, etc, as an SA, but you do get to talk with associates in a candid setting and see what their lives are like.Fresh Prince wrote:Report back a year after you've started.Though I have no real basis of comparison, after being an SA at S&C, I can say that the reputation of it being a terrible workplace is grossly exagerrated. Many of the worst stories concerned the same handful of partners (some of which may have been apocryphal), but it was generally a very congenial place in my experience. Associates were frank about what they didn't like about the firm (terrible hours, like everywhere else), but a poor atmosphere was not a common complaint.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
My aunt's the same way. Who would've thought being US Secretary of State would be so damn time consuming?!Anonymous User wrote:My aunt is a STB partner. During family holidays (the ones she attends), she hides in the bathroom to answer messages on her blackberry. We went on a family camping trip and she paid to set up wireless when she found out she wouldn't have internet access for the weekend. I can't tell you how many times we've tried to get together only for her to cancel due to something at work coming up -- wait actually I can, literally every time I've tried. Who knows, maybe the partners work 85+ hour weeks to allow the associates to frolic freely throughout the office, but I doubt it.Anonymous User wrote:This is a really silly come back. As an SA you meet a ton of people, often in various states of inebriation. You will NOT get a good idea of the workload, etc, as an SA, but you do get to talk with associates in a candid setting and see what their lives are like.Fresh Prince wrote:Report back a year after you've started.Though I have no real basis of comparison, after being an SA at S&C, I can say that the reputation of it being a terrible workplace is grossly exagerrated. Many of the worst stories concerned the same handful of partners (some of which may have been apocryphal), but it was generally a very congenial place in my experience. Associates were frank about what they didn't like about the firm (terrible hours, like everywhere else), but a poor atmosphere was not a common complaint.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
At my SA at a similar firm I didn't see the associates frolicking freely throughout the office. They don't work you that hard as an SA, but they definitely don't insulate you from the associates who are working that hard.Anonymous User wrote:My aunt is a STB partner. During family holidays (the ones she attends), she hides in the bathroom to answer messages on her blackberry. We went on a family camping trip and she paid to set up wireless when she found out she wouldn't have internet access for the weekend. I can't tell you how many times we've tried to get together only for her to cancel due to something at work coming up -- wait actually I can, literally every time I've tried. Who knows, maybe the partners work 85+ hour weeks to allow the associates to frolic freely throughout the office, but I doubt it.Anonymous User wrote:This is a really silly come back. As an SA you meet a ton of people, often in various states of inebriation. You will NOT get a good idea of the workload, etc, as an SA, but you do get to talk with associates in a candid setting and see what their lives are like.Fresh Prince wrote:Report back a year after you've started.Though I have no real basis of comparison, after being an SA at S&C, I can say that the reputation of it being a terrible workplace is grossly exagerrated. Many of the worst stories concerned the same handful of partners (some of which may have been apocryphal), but it was generally a very congenial place in my experience. Associates were frank about what they didn't like about the firm (terrible hours, like everywhere else), but a poor atmosphere was not a common complaint.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
Is your aunt a terrible person? If not, that's not really inconsistent with the comment of the person you're replying to.Anonymous User wrote:My aunt is a STB partner. During family holidays (the ones she attends), she hides in the bathroom to answer messages on her blackberry. We went on a family camping trip and she paid to set up wireless when she found out she wouldn't have internet access for the weekend. I can't tell you how many times we've tried to get together only for her to cancel due to something at work coming up -- wait actually I can, literally every time I've tried. Who knows, maybe the partners work 85+ hour weeks to allow the associates to frolic freely throughout the office, but I doubt it.Anonymous User wrote:This is a really silly come back. As an SA you meet a ton of people, often in various states of inebriation. You will NOT get a good idea of the workload, etc, as an SA, but you do get to talk with associates in a candid setting and see what their lives are like.Fresh Prince wrote:Report back a year after you've started.Though I have no real basis of comparison, after being an SA at S&C, I can say that the reputation of it being a terrible workplace is grossly exagerrated. Many of the worst stories concerned the same handful of partners (some of which may have been apocryphal), but it was generally a very congenial place in my experience. Associates were frank about what they didn't like about the firm (terrible hours, like everywhere else), but a poor atmosphere was not a common complaint.
When people talk about "terrible place to work" they don't mean hours. Hours are terrible at any NY firm. What people are talking about is whether a firm is full of shouters and assholes. As an SA, you won't be working associate hours, but you will hear all about what the partners are like.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
T-35 to CCN transfer here, Cravath offer in hand. No prior work experience, either.Anonymous User wrote:I can tell you:Anonymous User wrote:Not "anticipating" anything. Just a simple question about recruiting by the firms-not claiming I would ever get there; I would just like to know people's thoughts on it
Cravath is out unless you have the work experience/resume; being top 1-5% makes it possible (it's never probable), but transferring won't help unless it's to HYS.
S&C - see Cravath
STB - out because they only want schools "at which they conduct actual on-campus interviews"
But really, stop hypothesizing; 90% chance you won't be.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
Cool story bro.TheFriendlyBarber wrote: My aunt's the same way. Who would've thought being US Secretary of State would be so damn time consuming?!
Sorry, I apparently misconstrued the topic then. I thought the OP and others wanted input on hours and suggested that the hours were somehow less than the other firms listed. I don't think she's a good or bad person because of how much she works -- that's just how she is. All I can do is add my anecdote to the pile since people don't have much more than that to go on when choosing an SA position.Anonymous User wrote: Is your aunt a terrible person? If not, that's not really inconsistent with the comment of the person you're replying to.
When people talk about "terrible place to work" they don't mean hours. Hours are terrible at any NY firm. What people are talking about is whether a firm is full of shouters and assholes. As an SA, you won't be working associate hours, but you will hear all about what the partners are like.
To try to add something at least somewhat useful, one of my professors absolutely hated S&C and would tell anyone who would listen. Like cry in the office hated it.
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Re: Firm Culture: Cravath vs. S&C vs. Skadden vs. STB
Why? Just accepted my offer there, tried to ignore their brutal reputation since I actually hadn't heard any first-hand stories like this.Anonymous User wrote:To try to add something at least somewhat useful, one of my professors absolutely hated S&C and would tell anyone who would listen. Like cry in the office hated it.
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