employment odds

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dsosah
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employment odds

Postby dsosah » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:24 pm

For those of you who have any type of experience on this or care to venture a guess:
between someone who is lower half of class at a T14 and someone who is upper range of the class at a TII or TIII, who
do you think has better odds at getting a job considering they are both competing in the same market?
Just wondering. Thanks! :?:

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Grizz
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Re: employment odds

Postby Grizz » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:42 pm

Depends on way too much to say categorically.

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bk1
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Re: employment odds

Postby bk1 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:49 pm

Grizz wrote:Depends on way too much to say categorically.


+1

Also don't pick a lower ranked school because you think your grades will be better.

ITE8NY
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Re: employment odds

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:53 pm

have you read this board? at all? both hypothetical students are fucked. whichever the better odds are, only an idiot would take them.

dsosah
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Re: employment odds

Postby dsosah » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:57 pm

well, I haven't picked anything, actually haven't even taken the LSAT yet :oops: , but my question was more directed towards the possibility of being able to land T14, but being in the lower half of the class. I guess my real question is: what would my job prospects be if this was the case?

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Grizz
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Re: employment odds

Postby Grizz » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:58 pm

dsosah wrote:well, I haven't picked anything, actually haven't even taken the LSAT yet :oops: , but my question was more directed towards the possibility of being able to land T14, but being in the lower half of the class. I guess my real question is: what would my job prospects be if this was the case?

Depends on too much to say categorically. Maybe biglaw. Maybe debt and unemployment.

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kwais
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Re: employment odds

Postby kwais » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:59 pm

Personally (And I know some people will have a fit) I'd rather be at a T14 below median than be at a T2. That's just me

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JusticeHarlan
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Re: employment odds

Postby JusticeHarlan » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:01 pm

Why is the gap between T14 and T2? What happened to the rest of tier 1?

Seriously, lurk the site a bit more. You won't find answers to your question so much as you'll find it's a silly question. There's too many variables.

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rinkrat19
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Re: employment odds

Postby rinkrat19 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:11 pm

Depends on (among other factors) whether the lower-tier school is in a market that's not totally saturated with half a dozen better schools. There are some places, mostly in the middle of nowhere, where you have a somewhat decent chance of getting a job in Missoula or Omaha or whatever. Plus the debt won't be as crippling because tuition and cost of living are lower. Graduating with $200k in debt from the 8th best school in NYC or DC, however, is a death sentence.

ITE8NY
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Re: employment odds

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:15 pm

work doing something else a few years, it'll help you do better in law school (if you still want to go), help you get a job out of law school, and let you meet some lawyers and learn about the industry

as of right now, graduating in the middle in the T14 is a really shitty place to be, and graduating at the tippy-top of a "good" lower tier school still needs a big chunk of luck to get a midlaw job

bottom line: law school is a bad investment for most of the people who do it

Anonymous User
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Re: employment odds

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:20 pm

ITE8NY wrote:work doing something else a few years, it'll help you do better in law school (if you still want to go), help you get a job out of law school, and let you meet some lawyers and learn about the industry

as of right now, graduating in the middle in the T14 is a really shitty place to be, and graduating at the tippy-top of a "good" lower tier school still needs a big chunk of luck to get a midlaw job

bottom line: law school is a bad investment for most of the people who do it


you will be much better off at a T14. the reputation of the school carries SOME weight, even if you struggle to find employment right away. the market/economy is just too volatile to settle for anything less than T14. I know kids in the top 10% w/LR at T25 and T30 schools who are struggling to find employment. T14, even at median or below is just a way safer investment.

ITE8NY
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Re: employment odds

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
ITE8NY wrote:work doing something else a few years, it'll help you do better in law school (if you still want to go), help you get a job out of law school, and let you meet some lawyers and learn about the industry

as of right now, graduating in the middle in the T14 is a really shitty place to be, and graduating at the tippy-top of a "good" lower tier school still needs a big chunk of luck to get a midlaw job

bottom line: law school is a bad investment for most of the people who do it


you will be much better off at a T14. the reputation of the school carries SOME weight, even if you struggle to find employment right away. the market/economy is just too volatile to settle for anything less than T14. I know kids in the top 10% w/LR at T25 and T30 schools who are struggling to find employment. T14, even at median or below is just a way safer investment.


graduates at T14 at median and below are "struggling to find employment" too, as in, they're unemployed without prospects of the kind of employment they would need to pay their loans off ... there's no "way safer investment" here, just a lot of recent graduates who are absolutely fucked with debt and an unmarketable degree and a lot of people like you who goad on the next generation

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kwais
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Re: employment odds

Postby kwais » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:24 pm

ITE8NY wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ITE8NY wrote:work doing something else a few years, it'll help you do better in law school (if you still want to go), help you get a job out of law school, and let you meet some lawyers and learn about the industry

as of right now, graduating in the middle in the T14 is a really shitty place to be, and graduating at the tippy-top of a "good" lower tier school still needs a big chunk of luck to get a midlaw job

bottom line: law school is a bad investment for most of the people who do it


you will be much better off at a T14. the reputation of the school carries SOME weight, even if you struggle to find employment right away. the market/economy is just too volatile to settle for anything less than T14. I know kids in the top 10% w/LR at T25 and T30 schools who are struggling to find employment. T14, even at median or below is just a way safer investment.


graduates at T14 at median and below are "struggling to find employment" too, as in, they're unemployed without prospects of the kind of employment they would need to pay their loans off ... there's no "way safer investment" here, just a lot of recent graduates who are absolutely fucked with debt and an unmarketable degree and a lot of people like you who goad on the next generation


what are you basing this off of?

shoeshine
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Re: employment odds

Postby shoeshine » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:30 pm

I would like to put out there that TLS makes the job prospects for a below median T14 grad seem much worse than they actually are. The caveat to that is that if you are big law or bust your chances of success are slim when you are below median. But if you are only looking for a "job" in law or a law related field you will have awesome opportunities available to you at any T14.

ITE8NY
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Re: employment odds

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:31 pm

graduates at T14 at median and below are "struggling to find employment" too, as in, they're unemployed without prospects of the kind of employment they would need to pay their loans off ... there's no "way safer investment" here, just a lot of recent graduates who are absolutely fucked with debt and an unmarketable degree and a lot of people like you who goad on the next generation


what are you basing this off of?


besides the NYT articles, scamblogs, abovethelaw, general meltdown, JDUnderground, and people who post here? well, everything I observed during 1L job searching, 2L oci, and the endless sorrow of my 3L class, the failure of a number of friends/acquaintances from my T14; not to mention my conversations with associates, partners, and hiring staff about the shit market during my 1L and 2L firm summers and those individuals' experiences in hiring out of the local TTTs and T14s; my conversations with people I met during bar study and at the bar exam; and what I'm seeing from the inside now that I am employed--both in terms of the people who apply to my employer and the kind of COMPLETE SHIT JOBS that my former T14 classmates are forced to accept, when they can even get them.

now what's the basis for all the optimism heroes on this forum? they're mostly 2Ls with a huge stake in buoying their own misplaced hopes.
Last edited by ITE8NY on Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kwais
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Re: employment odds

Postby kwais » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:34 pm

shoeshine wrote:I would like to put out there that TLS makes the job prospects for a below median T14 grad seem much worse than they actually are. The caveat to that is that if you are big law or bust your chances of success are slim when you are below median. But if you are only looking for a "job" in law or a law related field you will have awesome opportunities available to you at any T14.


thank you

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kwais
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Re: employment odds

Postby kwais » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:34 pm

ITE8NY wrote:
graduates at T14 at median and below are "struggling to find employment" too, as in, they're unemployed without prospects of the kind of employment they would need to pay their loans off ... there's no "way safer investment" here, just a lot of recent graduates who are absolutely fucked with debt and an unmarketable degree and a lot of people like you who goad on the next generation


what are you basing this off of?


besides the NYT articles, scamblogs, abovethelaw, general meltdown, JDUnderground, and people who post here? well, everything I observed during 1L job searching, 2L oci, and the endless sorrow of my 3L class, the failure of a number of friends/acquaintances from my T14; not to mention my conversations with associates, partners, and hiring staff about the shit market during my 1L and 2L firm summers and their experiences in hiring out of the local TTTs and T14s; my conversations with people I met during bar study and at the bar exam; and what I'm seeing from the inside now that I am employed--both in terms of the people who apply to my employer and the kind of COMPLETE SHIT JOBS that my former T14 classmates are forced to accept, when they can even get them.

now what's the basis for all the optimism heroes on this forum? they're mostly 2Ls with a huge stake in buoying their own misplaced hopes.


lol at you citing the nytimes article. credibility destroyed

ITE8NY
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Re: employment odds

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:35 pm

kwais wrote:
shoeshine wrote:I would like to put out there that TLS makes the job prospects for a below median T14 grad seem much worse than they actually are. The caveat to that is that if you are big law or bust your chances of success are slim when you are below median. But if you are only looking for a "job" in law or a law related field you will have awesome opportunities available to you at any T14.


thank you


omfg. examples of these "awesome opportunities" for at-median graduates, please?

ITE8NY
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Re: employment odds

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:36 pm


lol at you citing the nytimes article. credibility destroyed


okay, sorry; you'll get in everywhere you apply.

better?

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kwais
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Re: employment odds

Postby kwais » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:37 pm

ITE8NY wrote:
kwais wrote:
shoeshine wrote:I would like to put out there that TLS makes the job prospects for a below median T14 grad seem much worse than they actually are. The caveat to that is that if you are big law or bust your chances of success are slim when you are below median. But if you are only looking for a "job" in law or a law related field you will have awesome opportunities available to you at any T14.


thank you


omfg. examples of these "awesome opportunities" for at-median graduates, please?


what do you mean examples? Names? I'm meeting them everyday at my T14.

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Veyron
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Re: employment odds

Postby Veyron » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:42 pm

kwais wrote:
ITE8NY wrote:
kwais wrote:
shoeshine wrote:I would like to put out there that TLS makes the job prospects for a below median T14 grad seem much worse than they actually are. The caveat to that is that if you are big law or bust your chances of success are slim when you are below median. But if you are only looking for a "job" in law or a law related field you will have awesome opportunities available to you at any T14.


thank you


omfg. examples of these "awesome opportunities" for at-median graduates, please?


what do you mean examples? Names? I'm meeting them everyday at my T14.


:roll: He means what kind of jerbs, yo?

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kwais
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Re: employment odds

Postby kwais » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:42 pm

ITE8NY wrote:

lol at you citing the nytimes article. credibility destroyed


okay, sorry; you'll get in everywhere you apply.

better?


wut?

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kwais
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Re: employment odds

Postby kwais » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:43 pm

Veyron wrote:
:roll: He means what kind of jerbs, yo?


oh my bad, V5, V10, V50, V100 + government + public interest. better?

ITE8NY
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Re: employment odds

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:45 pm

kwais wrote:
Veyron wrote:
:roll: He means what kind of jerbs, yo?


oh my bad, V5, V10, V50, V100 + government + public interest. better?


Bullshit. The at-median grads I've seen have gone to doc review, temp positions, and working for free. If you know 6 people, each of whom fill each of the V5, etc. you list, then I guarantee that's about all there are.

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kwais
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Re: employment odds

Postby kwais » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:48 pm

ITE8NY wrote:
kwais wrote:
Veyron wrote:
:roll: He means what kind of jerbs, yo?


oh my bad, V5, V10, V50, V100 + government + public interest. better?


Bullshit. The at-median grads I've seen have gone to doc review, temp positions, and working for free. If you know 6 people, each of whom fill each of the V5, etc. you list, then I guarantee that's about all there are.


sorry it didn't work out for you bro




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