No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

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ruski
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby ruski » Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:02 pm

just looking at school + grades it seems pretty random. i would be interested to see how many of the offers in this thread have some type of relevant work experience. working at a law firm could be pretty crushing, so i can see why a firm might be hesitant to hire someone whose only job has been working as life guard and retail at the gap, even if they do have high grades. completely guessing here, but i think people's professional backgrounds may explain some of this randomness

Eco
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Eco » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:10 pm

My advice is to drop out if you get dinged my biglaw. Outside the big money there is nothing worthwhile in this industry.


Ok, I have to comment on this. And this is coming from somebody who has CBs at biglaw coming up. Seriously, there are a lot of great jobs, PI, etc..., including at small firms, for attorneys to have. You get paid $70,000 to work at a law firm, yes, you're not making $160,000, but you will make enough as a single guy/girl to pay your rent, your student loans, and have an enjoyable life. And with that work experience, you can gain better employment as hopefully economic conditions improve. It isn't "big law or bust" IMO. Generally, I would say you should drop out if you have no job offer at all for your 2L year, but if you have something, then its worth it.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:14 pm

Eco wrote:
My advice is to drop out if you get dinged my biglaw. Outside the big money there is nothing worthwhile in this industry.


Ok, I have to comment on this. And this is coming from somebody who has CBs at biglaw coming up. Seriously, there are a lot of great jobs, PI, etc..., including at small firms, for attorneys to have. You get paid $70,000 to work at a law firm, yes, you're not making $160,000, but you will make enough as a single guy/girl to pay your rent, your student loans, and have an enjoyable life. And with that work experience, you can gain better employment as hopefully economic conditions improve. It isn't "big law or bust" IMO. Generally, I would say you should drop out if you have no job offer at all for your 2L year, but if you have something, then its worth it.


If you went to law school to get a BigLaw SA and struck out, sure, drop out. If you went to law school to be a lawyer, keep chuggin!

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Grizz
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Grizz » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:37 pm

Eco wrote:Ok, I have to comment on this. And this is coming from somebody who has CBs at biglaw coming up. Seriously, there are a lot of great jobs, PI, etc..., including at small firms, for attorneys to have. You get paid $70,000 $35,000 to work at a law firm, yes, you're not making $160,000, but you will make enough as a single guy/girl to pay your rent, your student loans, and have an enjoyable life. buy ramen, live in your parents' basement, and try to avoid collections people.

upperdarby
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby upperdarby » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:11 pm

Ok, I have to comment on this. And this is coming from somebody who has CBs at biglaw coming up. Seriously, there are a lot of great jobs, PI, etc..., including at small firms, for attorneys to have. You get paid $70,000 to work at a law firm, yes, you're not making $160,000, but you will make enough as a single guy/girl to pay your rent, your student loans, and have an enjoyable life. And with that work experience, you can gain better employment as hopefully economic conditions improve. It isn't "big law or bust" IMO. Generally, I would say you should drop out if you have no job offer at all for your 2L year, but if you have something, then its worth it.



I really, really want to get my hands on whatever you're smoking. Do you honestly believe small firms start people at 70 K ? Try 30-35 K if you can even find a position (many can't- the economy is terrible and consumer/small law practice has been decimated). Public interest is laying off lawyers left and right, and the few jobs available require Biglaw-caliber credentials.

This entire website is quite puzzling. There is a deluge of stories in the mainstream media discussing what a terrible idea law school is, how bad the job market is, how miserable/unhappy lawyers are, student debt horror stories, etc. Yet people still flock to this industry anyway in spite of all the warnings. Then when you get dinged at OCI it comes as some kind of surprise? The oversupply of lawyers in the US is downright staggering.

CanuckObserver
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby CanuckObserver » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:18 pm

Grizz wrote:
Eco wrote:Ok, I have to comment on this. And this is coming from somebody who has CBs at biglaw coming up. Seriously, there are a lot of great jobs, PI, etc..., including at small firms, for attorneys to have. You get paid $70,000 $35,000 to work at a law firm, yes, you're not making $160,000, but you will make enough as a single guy/girl to pay your rent, your student loans, and have an enjoyable life. buy ramen, live in your parents' basement, and try to avoid collections people.

Quoted for truth. Also, quoted for quoting someone who sounds like they have no idea how much student loan repayments are going to hurt the monthly net income.

There is hardly a number of "great jobs" out there paying $70k. You will be lucky to find one or the other, and there is a very, very, high risk you will find neither. Small firms have felt the squeeze too, and know that they do not need to offer $70k when there are plenty of experienced lawyers out there willing to take half of that to escape the dead end of doc review (which is also becoming scarce with outsourcing).

Maybe, Eco, you have not heard, but it is hardly easier to get PI these days than BigLaw.

upperdarby
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby upperdarby » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:33 pm

There is hardly a number of "great jobs" out there paying $70k. You will be lucky to find one or the other, and there is a very, very, high risk you will find neither. Small firms have felt the squeeze too, and know that they do not need to offer $70k when there are plenty of experienced lawyers out there willing to take half of that to escape the dead end of doc review (which is also becoming scarce with outsourcing).


Correct about doc review, although some of it is now being "outsourced" domestically to flyover states like Kansas:

--LinkRemoved--

$20 an hour is pretty sad for a job which requires a JD & bar admission, but its simply a function of the insanely out-of-whack supply/demand metrics.

Law is an industry with absurdly low barriers to entry: no hard math/science required, minimal intelligence, little to no writing ability (hence "legalese"), easy classes with only one exam a semester, and a licensing test with over 85% pass rate in most states.

Basically it's the dumpster of academia, where those too stupid for med school or engineering end up to hopefully get some bogus "prestige." Also a huge cash cow for the schools, who use the law school cash to fund other programs since lawschools are very cheap to operate.

ITE8NY
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby ITE8NY » Sun Sep 04, 2011 5:39 pm

Well, you all knew coming in that the market was bad and the profession was flooded. Class of 2011 is the last that can claim they didn't know failure was the most likely outcome. If no employer at OCI thought you were worth a closer look, maybe it's time to cut your losses and look at another line of work.

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beach_terror
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby beach_terror » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:08 pm

Can we keep this on-topic ffs? Everyone in this thread is a 2L or higher and understands their predicament. Further, the fact that almost everyone in here did well in law school shows that, at the very least, these posters can make their own decision in regard to their financial future. If you want to troll, go start with the 0Ls. For now, leave this thread to the people who are still trying to snag a job and remain positive. It's so early in the season that there's no reason for anyone to freak out unless they've exhausted all of their options (OCI, mass mailing, etc.).

TL;DR - shut the fuck up and start your own thread.

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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 6:53 pm

beach_terror wrote:Can we keep this on-topic ffs? Everyone in this thread is a 2L or higher and understands their predicament. Further, the fact that almost everyone in here did well in law school shows that, at the very least, these posters can make their own decision in regard to their financial future. If you want to troll, go start with the 0Ls. For now, leave this thread to the people who are still trying to snag a job and remain positive. It's so early in the season that there's no reason for anyone to freak out unless they've exhausted all of their options (OCI, mass mailing, etc.).

TL;DR - shut the fuck up and start your own thread.
Completely agree.

To get back on topic and update my previous post:
OCI: 25 screeners, 17 dings, 3 CBs, 2 still silent
CBs: 2 CBs done, 1 to go, 1 CB ding already. Pretty damn worried.

Geist13
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Geist13 » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:09 pm

T20, top 30%, LR. 12 screeners. 1 CB (hasn't happened yet). Only 1 rejection from screeners. Two screeners explicitly told me the hiring committee wasn't meeting until the end of september and not to worry if I don't hear from them for a while. I'm worried. Not freaked out (yet).

This is actually going better than I expected. After first semester I was below median and had given up all hope. Then I got a 3.9 second semester. Then I wrote-on to LR. I've gotten more screeners than I expected. Given my poor grades first semester, I don't think things could have gone any better then they are.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 7:35 pm

upperdarby wrote:
Ok, I have to comment on this. And this is coming from somebody who has CBs at biglaw coming up. Seriously, there are a lot of great jobs, PI, etc..., including at small firms, for attorneys to have. You get paid $70,000 to work at a law firm, yes, you're not making $160,000, but you will make enough as a single guy/girl to pay your rent, your student loans, and have an enjoyable life. And with that work experience, you can gain better employment as hopefully economic conditions improve. It isn't "big law or bust" IMO. Generally, I would say you should drop out if you have no job offer at all for your 2L year, but if you have something, then its worth it.



I really, really want to get my hands on whatever you're smoking. Do you honestly believe small firms start people at 70 K ? Try 30-35 K if you can even find a position (many can't- the economy is terrible and consumer/small law practice has been decimated). Public interest is laying off lawyers left and right, and the few jobs available require Biglaw-caliber credentials.

This entire website is quite puzzling. There is a deluge of stories in the mainstream media discussing what a terrible idea law school is, how bad the job market is, how miserable/unhappy lawyers are, student debt horror stories, etc. Yet people still flock to this industry anyway in spite of all the warnings. Then when you get dinged at OCI it comes as some kind of surprise? The oversupply of lawyers in the US is downright staggering.



Just because they are rare doesn't mean they don't exist. Biglaw spinoff firms will start people at 100k+. These jobs exist, you just have to hustle and get lucky.

CanuckObserver
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby CanuckObserver » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote: These jobs exist, you just have to hustle and get lucky.


As well as hope that every other single potential candidate has for some reason decided to stay in bed, after years of hustling to get into and get through law school, and not bother trying.

So, I would put a lot more emphasis on the "lucky" part of the equation. For some the $200,000 lottery ticket might pay off in a rare $70,000 job, but many, many more are going to find themselves holding a non-winning piece of JD paper.

MrAnon
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby MrAnon » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:57 pm

This entire website is quite puzzling. There is a deluge of stories in the mainstream media discussing what a terrible idea law school is, how bad the job market is, how miserable/unhappy lawyers are, student debt horror stories, etc. Yet people still flock to this industry anyway in spite of all the warnings. Then when you get dinged at OCI it comes as some kind of surprise? The oversupply of lawyers in the US is downright staggering.


Yup. The stories about gluts of lawyers and the education scam that is law school is posted, and the common reply is that some OTHER lemmings who dont know better will be had by this OLD news. Then this thread begins a year later.

MrAnon
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby MrAnon » Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
upperdarby wrote:
Ok, I have to comment on this. And this is coming from somebody who has CBs at biglaw coming up. Seriously, there are a lot of great jobs, PI, etc..., including at small firms, for attorneys to have. You get paid $70,000 to work at a law firm, yes, you're not making $160,000, but you will make enough as a single guy/girl to pay your rent, your student loans, and have an enjoyable life. And with that work experience, you can gain better employment as hopefully economic conditions improve. It isn't "big law or bust" IMO. Generally, I would say you should drop out if you have no job offer at all for your 2L year, but if you have something, then its worth it.



I really, really want to get my hands on whatever you're smoking. Do you honestly believe small firms start people at 70 K ? Try 30-35 K if you can even find a position (many can't- the economy is terrible and consumer/small law practice has been decimated). Public interest is laying off lawyers left and right, and the few jobs available require Biglaw-caliber credentials.

This entire website is quite puzzling. There is a deluge of stories in the mainstream media discussing what a terrible idea law school is, how bad the job market is, how miserable/unhappy lawyers are, student debt horror stories, etc. Yet people still flock to this industry anyway in spite of all the warnings. Then when you get dinged at OCI it comes as some kind of surprise? The oversupply of lawyers in the US is downright staggering.



Just because they are rare doesn't mean they don't exist. Biglaw spinoff firms will start people at 100k+. These jobs exist, you just have to hustle and get lucky.



Biglaw spinoff firms are NOT interested in people who could not get biglaw. These firms have an inferiority issue when it comes to hiring. They want people who are competitive for biglaw, not no-offers and OCI dings.

MrAnon
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby MrAnon » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:00 pm

beach_terror wrote:Can we keep this on-topic ffs? Everyone in this thread is a 2L or higher and understands their predicament. Further, the fact that almost everyone in here did well in law school shows that, at the very least, these posters can make their own decision in regard to their financial future. If you want to troll, go start with the 0Ls. For now, leave this thread to the people who are still trying to snag a job and remain positive. It's so early in the season that there's no reason for anyone to freak out unless they've exhausted all of their options (OCI, mass mailing, etc.).

TL;DR - shut the fuck up and start your own thread.


Saying that one did well in law school is really confusing what is happening. You can literally never show up for any class and still pull a B. did you do bad? Nope. Are you in the same boat as the person who got a B+ as far as jobs go? Yup pretty much, since you didn't get an A.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:04 pm

Top 10%/T20/5 CBs....I feel numb...and scared.

MrAnon
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby MrAnon » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Top 10%/T20/5 CBs....I feel numb...and scared.


Its okay buddy, you can still get 6 figure midlaw according to many here. Seriously i empathize. Top 10% and only 5 CBs?

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:29 pm

MrAnon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 10%/T20/5 CBs....I feel numb...and scared.


Its okay buddy, you can still get 6 figure midlaw according to many here. Seriously i empathize. Top 10% and only 5 CBs?


The same ~20 people rack them all up. It's fucking miserable. I am just hoping that offers really are coming out later.

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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 9:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
MrAnon wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Top 10%/T20/5 CBs....I feel numb...and scared.


Its okay buddy, you can still get 6 figure midlaw according to many here. Seriously i empathize. Top 10% and only 5 CBs?


The same ~20 people rack them all up. It's fucking miserable. I am just hoping that offers really are coming out later.


Same here, T20, top 10%, 5 CBs.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:11 pm

All it takes is one fellas, do your thing.

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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:All it takes is one fellas, do your thing.


I know man, I know. I've had 2 with firms that I was lukewarm about but really ended up loving after the CB.

It's the intangibles that just drive me crazy. The feeling of impending failure is absolutely soul-crushing.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All it takes is one fellas, do your thing.


I know man, I know. I've had 2 with firms that I was lukewarm about but really ended up loving after the CB.

It's the intangibles that just drive me crazy. The feeling of impending failure is absolutely soul-crushing.

All of law school is soul-crushing, but take solace in the fact that you're in a much better spot than the vast majority of your class. That's at least how I try to look at things. Most people would kill to be in your shoes, so do yourself and your school proud. Go in there, shoot the shit, smile and be friendly. At the end of the day, that's all you can do.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All it takes is one fellas, do your thing.


I know man, I know. I've had 2 with firms that I was lukewarm about but really ended up loving after the CB.

It's the intangibles that just drive me crazy. The feeling of impending failure is absolutely soul-crushing.

All of law school is soul-crushing, but take solace in the fact that you're in a much better spot than the vast majority of your class. That's at least how I try to look at things. Most people would kill to be in your shoes, so do yourself and your school proud. Go in there, shoot the shit, smile and be friendly. At the end of the day, that's all you can do.


I appreciate it man, I really do.

You have an offer yet? I am really rooting for everyone in this thread.

Anonymous User
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Re: No Offers Yet- All Aboard the USS Worried

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:All it takes is one fellas, do your thing.


I know man, I know. I've had 2 with firms that I was lukewarm about but really ended up loving after the CB.

It's the intangibles that just drive me crazy. The feeling of impending failure is absolutely soul-crushing.

All of law school is soul-crushing, but take solace in the fact that you're in a much better spot than the vast majority of your class. That's at least how I try to look at things. Most people would kill to be in your shoes, so do yourself and your school proud. Go in there, shoot the shit, smile and be friendly. At the end of the day, that's all you can do.


I appreciate it man, I really do.

You have an offer yet? I am really rooting for everyone in this thread.

Nothing yet, will know about CB #1 on Thurs/Fri of this week and I have CB #2 scheduled for this week as well. OCI was 9 screeners; 2 callbacks; 1 screener rejection thus far. So yeah, the radio silence for 2-3 weeks from firms sucks - but I do know some were rejected from the silent firms so hopefully I'll snag 1-2 more CBs toward the end of this process. One of those times that I wish life had a fast-forward button.




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