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Annual Legal Study Ranks Top 25 Law Firms in the United States

Corporate Board Member magazine and global business advisory firm FTI Consulting, Inc. (NYSE: FCN) today announced the results of the 11th annual America's best corporate law firms study, a comprehensive ranking by U.S. corporate directors and general counsel of the top 25 national corporate law firms.

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Any comment on this? Does it imply that working at Skadden would provide better in-house exit options than Wachtell or Cravath? Or is the ranking just a reflection of the firm as a whole and not the quality of its associates, thus mooting the usefulness of the survey to determine firm exit options (which has been typically measured using Vault prestige rankings by corporate associates -- a not-so-great measure).

Jones Day at #5 tells you that size mattered to this.

terribleperson wrote:Jones Day at #5 tells you that size mattered to this.

Size may play a role, but Wachtell is in the top 3 suggesting that it doesn't matter too much.

terribleperson wrote:Jones Day at #5 tells you that size mattered to this.

lolwut

Confirmation that Cravath is the Bono of NYC firms.

JusticeHarlan wrote:Confirmation that Cravath is the Bono of NYC firms.

what does bono mean?

Anonymous User wrote:

JusticeHarlan wrote:Confirmation that Cravath is the Bono of NYC firms.

what does bono mean?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bono

I think Skadden is underrated (all of the "V5 besides Skadden" crap), given it's brand name among corporate folks. That said, the firms that corporations would hire is not coextensive with what firms offer associates the best exit options. Just because a corporate counsel might hire Jones Day to handle an M&A transaction, because of its lower cost structure and presence in a broader range of markets, doesn't mean they would consider an associate from Jones Day to be better for an in-house position than an associate from Simpson Thacher.

rayiner wrote:I think Skadden is underrated (all of the "V5 besides Skadden" crap), given it's brand name among corporate folks. That said, the firms that corporations would hire is not coextensive with what firms offer associates the best exit options. Just because a corporate counsel might hire Jones Day to handle an M&A transaction, because of its lower cost structure and presence in a broader range of markets, doesn't mean they would consider an associate from Jones Day to be better for an in-house position than an associate from Simpson Thacher.

If we're talking about associates at any of the firms you mentioned, exit options are more a function of individual than firm.

quakeroats wrote:

rayiner wrote:I think Skadden is underrated (all of the "V5 besides Skadden" crap), given it's brand name among corporate folks. That said, the firms that corporations would hire is not coextensive with what firms offer associates the best exit options. Just because a corporate counsel might hire Jones Day to handle an M&A transaction, because of its lower cost structure and presence in a broader range of markets, doesn't mean they would consider an associate from Jones Day to be better for an in-house position than an associate from Simpson Thacher.

If we're talking about associates at any of the firms you mentioned, exit options are more a function of individual than firm.

Could you elaborate on this please? I'm really trying to find out more about what determines your exit options but it seems like there's no clear answers on TLS.

quakeroats wrote:

rayiner wrote:I think Skadden is underrated (all of the "V5 besides Skadden" crap), given it's brand name among corporate folks. That said, the firms that corporations would hire is not coextensive with what firms offer associates the best exit options. Just because a corporate counsel might hire Jones Day to handle an M&A transaction, because of its lower cost structure and presence in a broader range of markets, doesn't mean they would consider an associate from Jones Day to be better for an in-house position than an associate from Simpson Thacher.

If we're talking about associates at any of the firms you mentioned, exit options are more a function of individual than firm.

You keep speaking authoritatively about exit options. I'm curious to see what reference you are basing your conclusions on.

Not that I disagree with you on this specific point --- exit options at a very wide range of firms is more about the individual than the firm. That being said, you are you no matter what firm you choose, so that knowledge isn't particularly useful information.

rayiner wrote:

quakeroats wrote:

rayiner wrote:I think Skadden is underrated (all of the "V5 besides Skadden" crap), given it's brand name among corporate folks. That said, the firms that corporations would hire is not coextensive with what firms offer associates the best exit options. Just because a corporate counsel might hire Jones Day to handle an M&A transaction, because of its lower cost structure and presence in a broader range of markets, doesn't mean they would consider an associate from Jones Day to be better for an in-house position than an associate from Simpson Thacher.

If we're talking about associates at any of the firms you mentioned, exit options are more a function of individual than firm.

You keep speaking authoritatively about exit options. I'm curious to see what reference you are basing your conclusions on.

Not that I disagree with you on this specific point --- exit options at a very wide range of firms is more about the individual than the firm. That being said, you are you no matter what firm you choose, so that knowledge isn't particularly useful information.

I speak from experience. I'd contend it's useful because many law students spent the last 25 years depending on signaling to move from point A to B. If you walk into a V10 expecting the same system, things may not go so well.

Anonymous User wrote:

JusticeHarlan wrote:Confirmation that Cravath is the Bono of NYC firms.

what does bono mean?

See generally (LinkRemoved)

quakeroats wrote:

rayiner wrote:

quakeroats wrote:

rayiner wrote:I think Skadden is underrated (all of the "V5 besides Skadden" crap), given it's brand name among corporate folks. That said, the firms that corporations would hire is not coextensive with what firms offer associates the best exit options. Just because a corporate counsel might hire Jones Day to handle an M&A transaction, because of its lower cost structure and presence in a broader range of markets, doesn't mean they would consider an associate from Jones Day to be better for an in-house position than an associate from Simpson Thacher.

If we're talking about associates at any of the firms you mentioned, exit options are more a function of individual than firm.

You keep speaking authoritatively about exit options. I'm curious to see what reference you are basing your conclusions on.

Not that I disagree with you on this specific point --- exit options at a very wide range of firms is more about the individual than the firm. That being said, you are you no matter what firm you choose, so that knowledge isn't particularly useful information.

I speak from experience. I'd contend it's useful because many law students spent the last 25 years depending on signaling to move from point A to B. If you walk into a V10 expecting the same system, things may not go so well.

From experience as someone who has worked at a V10 then lateraled in-house, etc?

As a counter-weight to your "experience," I'm someone who spent my first 25 years not depending on signaling to move from point A to point B. I worked at a start-up and companies with no name recognition because I got top-notch work. I found it... an uphill battle. You're placed in a bucket the minute you mention where you work or where you went to school. Only after that do people look at your work product --- if even then. Being in a position for the first time to depend on signaling, I have to say it's a huge difference. My dad was at one of those $$$ per plate fund raisers for a non-profit (he does their business development), and he and someone who could afford to be there were chatting about their kids. He mentioned where I worked over the summer and the guy recognized it and even knew the firm's address. Having experienced the other side of the coin, I am very hesitant to say signaling doesn't matter.

Maybe lateraling from a law firm is different. I don't personally have any experience as a lateral candidate, so I really don't know. I'm just speaking based on my own experience. That said, having been on the outside looking in, if I had to go back and make the decision again, I'd make the same one.

FWIW.