Your thoughts on my strange offer

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Anonymous User
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Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:10 am

So I got an SA offer from a completely unknown but extremely profitable law firm. The starting salary is about 30gs under local market but the bonuses have the potential to be massively above market (and by massively, I mean > wachtell, but in a lower COL market). The offer rate is 50-60 % out of the summer program, but if you get an offer, you can count on a strong chance of making non-equity partner. If you had other offers (say lower V100), how would you rank this firm? The work is also pretty interesting because you get to go to court a lot more than a biglawyer.

bdubs
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby bdubs » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:13 am

Where do the bonuses come from? If it's a big plaintiff's side contingency firm, I would be somewhat skeptical unless they were well entrenched and had spread the risk of losses a good amount.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:15 am

bdubs wrote:Where do the bonuses come from? If it's a big plaintiff's side contingency firm, I would be somewhat skeptical unless they were well entrenched and had spread the risk of losses a good amount.


Bonuses come from profit sharing. The risk of losses is NOT spread. Bonus could be as low as 3k in a given year. It does P side contingency work but also other sorts. Its BK practice is pretty big as is its RE practice. I am completely at a loss here.

I feel like its the kind of offer that should cause a law student to wet his pants and a B student to cum his pants. The amount of money made by some of the equity partners is earth shattering.

Sup Kid
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Sup Kid » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:22 am

Anonymous User wrote:
bdubs wrote:Where do the bonuses come from? If it's a big plaintiff's side contingency firm, I would be somewhat skeptical unless they were well entrenched and had spread the risk of losses a good amount.


Bonuses come from profit sharing. The risk of losses is NOT spread. Bonus could be as low as 3k in a given year. It does P side contingency work but also other sorts. Its BK practice is pretty big as is its RE practice. I am completely at a loss here. I feel like its the kind of offer that should cause a law student to wet his pants and a B student to cum his pants.

If you're a risk-taker, go for it. If you're like 99% of law students who want a relatively steady career path, take the V100 offer. Just be wary of any firm that:
a) claims to give massive bonuses to offset a lower salary (since if they are that profitable they should be able to pay market salary),
b) makes the bonuses contigent on what others (i.e. partners) do, rather than what you do, and
c) has both big bankruptcy and real estate practices, since they rarely can both do well at the same time, due to cyclical markets.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:24 am

I'm a 1L but I'd take the lower V100...50-60% offer rate is a bit risky.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:27 am

Oh, to clarify, the bonuses are largely contingent on MY performance. I don't want to get too specific but the requirements are objective and somewhat within my control.

Both the BK and RE areas are going gangbusters ITE.

I'm a 1L but I'd take the lower V100...50-60% offer rate is a bit risky.


Of course its risky, its really fucking risky. But, on the flip side, a V100 is risky too because 80% of the class is gone at year 5. The difference here is that the risk is front-loaded. If you get an offer, you can stay for a long ass time (and the billables are quite reasonable, so burnout is unlikely) . . . on the other hand, a no offer can kill a career dead.

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smokyroom26
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby smokyroom26 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:Oh, to clarify, the bonuses are largely contingent on MY performance. I don't want to get too specific but the requirements are objective and somewhat within my control.

Both the BK and RE areas are going gangbusters ITE.

I'm a 1L but I'd take the lower V100...50-60% offer rate is a bit risky.


Of course its risky, its really fucking risky. But, on the flip side, a V100 is risky too because 80% of the class is gone at year 5. The difference here is that the risk is front-loaded. If you get an offer, you can stay for a long ass time (and the billables are quite reasonable, so burnout is unlikely) . . . on the other hand, a no offer can kill a career dead.


I'm not sure what is risky about this. People leave biglawl because they want to do something else. Sure, there are those that wanted to make partner and didn't, but it's not like doors are going to be shut to them because of that.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:33 am

smokyroom26 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Oh, to clarify, the bonuses are largely contingent on MY performance. I don't want to get too specific but the requirements are objective and somewhat within my control.

Both the BK and RE areas are going gangbusters ITE.

I'm a 1L but I'd take the lower V100...50-60% offer rate is a bit risky.


Of course its risky, its really fucking risky. But, on the flip side, a V100 is risky too because 80% of the class is gone at year 5. The difference here is that the risk is front-loaded. If you get an offer, you can stay for a long ass time (and the billables are quite reasonable, so burnout is unlikely) . . . on the other hand, a no offer can kill a career dead.


I'm not sure what is risky about this. People leave biglawl because they want to do something else. Sure, there are those that wanted to make partner and didn't, but it's not like doors are going to be shut to them because of that.


People get shoved out the door because biglaw relies on a highly leveraged model, not because they all decided to go chase sunshine and puppy dogs.

P.S. just playing the Devil's advocate here to help myself work thru the problem.

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smokyroom26
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby smokyroom26 » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
smokyroom26 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Oh, to clarify, the bonuses are largely contingent on MY performance. I don't want to get too specific but the requirements are objective and somewhat within my control.

Both the BK and RE areas are going gangbusters ITE.

I'm a 1L but I'd take the lower V100...50-60% offer rate is a bit risky.


Of course its risky, its really fucking risky. But, on the flip side, a V100 is risky too because 80% of the class is gone at year 5. The difference here is that the risk is front-loaded. If you get an offer, you can stay for a long ass time (and the billables are quite reasonable, so burnout is unlikely) . . . on the other hand, a no offer can kill a career dead.


I'm not sure what is risky about this. People leave biglawl because they want to do something else. Sure, there are those that wanted to make partner and didn't, but it's not like doors are going to be shut to them because of that.


People get shoved out the door because biglaw relies on a highly leveraged model, not because they all decided to go chase sunshine and puppy dogs.

P.S. just playing the Devil's advocate here to help myself work thru the problem.


Grain of truth to that for sure, but that has little to do with exit options. You aren't getting fired. Plenty of smart, talented people don't make partner.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:44 am

Grain of truth to that for sure, but that has little to do with exit options. You aren't getting fired. Plenty of smart, talented people don't make partner.


Hmmmmm. Ok, I'm not really interested in in-house exit ops. I am interested in exit ops to gov and might be interested in exit ops to another firm. I assume that the government isn't going to much care about the prestige of the firm I come from.

Also, if everything shakes out, I'll have enough money to open my own firm or for exit options provided by others to be somewhat irrelevant to me. Besides, I really do get the feeling that getting the offer is the hard part and if I nab it, I'll be welcome to stay till 80 (and plenty of folks at the firm enjoy their work enough to do just that.)

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tyro
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby tyro » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:12 am

Do you feel that you have a sufficient amount of verifieable info/data on this firm to make a decision based on their selling points?

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Grizz
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Grizz » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:17 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Grain of truth to that for sure, but that has little to do with exit options. You aren't getting fired. Plenty of smart, talented people don't make partner.


Hmmmmm. Ok, I'm not really interested in in-house exit ops. I am interested in exit ops to gov and might be interested in exit ops to another firm. I assume that the government isn't going to much care about the prestige of the firm I come from.

Also, if everything shakes out, I'll have enough money to open my own firm or for exit options provided by others to be somewhat irrelevant to me. Besides, I really do get the feeling that getting the offer is the hard part and if I nab it, I'll be welcome to stay till 80 (and plenty of folks at the firm enjoy their work enough to do just that.)

Depending on what govt. position, they WILL care what firm you're coming from and the relevant work you did there.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:21 am

tyro wrote:Do you feel that you have a sufficient amount of verifieable info/data on this firm to make a decision based on their selling points?


I am fairly confident in the accuracy of everything I've said.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:So I got an SA offer from a completely unknown but extremely profitable law firm. The starting salary is about 30gs under local market but the bonuses have the potential to be massively above market (and by massively, I mean > wachtell, but in a lower COL market). The offer rate is 50-60 % out of the summer program, but if you get an offer, you can count on a strong chance of making non-equity partner. If you had other offers (say lower V100), how would you rank this firm? The work is also pretty interesting because you get to go to court a lot more than a biglawyer.



50-60% offer rate? hell no. You have won the law school lottery (with your v-100 offer) and you are going to take a 50-50 chance of getting a few K (or less) each year? And the possibility of making non-equity partner?? Not worth it IMHO.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So I got an SA offer from a completely unknown but extremely profitable law firm. The starting salary is about 30gs under local market but the bonuses have the potential to be massively above market (and by massively, I mean > wachtell, but in a lower COL market). The offer rate is 50-60 % out of the summer program, but if you get an offer, you can count on a strong chance of making non-equity partner. If you had other offers (say lower V100), how would you rank this firm? The work is also pretty interesting because you get to go to court a lot more than a biglawyer.



50-60% offer rate? hell no. You have won the law school lottery (with your v-100 offer) and you are going to take a 50-50 chance of getting a few K (or less) each year? And the possibility of making non-equity partner?? Not worth it IMHO.


A few Ks bonus. The base salary, while not market, is quite sufficient for a comfortable lifestyle. And, of course, from the midlevel associate level on up, many of the people at this firm are being compensated better than they would otherwise be in biglaw.

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tyro
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby tyro » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
tyro wrote:Do you feel that you have a sufficient amount of verifieable info/data on this firm to make a decision based on their selling points?


I am fairly confident in the accuracy of everything I've said.

You're opposed to the idea of exiting to begin with. So weighing the risks then, do you believe that this firm will help you to reach your full potential?

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Wed Aug 31, 2011 2:26 am

This firm must have had one hell of a sales pitch, as it seems your purpose in creating this thread is to shoot down everyone's advice until you find someone crazy enough to endorse a 50/50 chance at unemployment hell.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:21 am

Lieut Kaffee wrote:This firm must have had one hell of a sales pitch, as it seems your purpose in creating this thread is to shoot down everyone's advice until you find someone crazy enough to endorse a 50/50 chance at unemployment hell.


As stated previously, I'm just working thru a problem by playing devil's advocate. If someone were to come ITT and argue in favor of me accepting, I'd be interested in seeing how they responded to my concerns as well.


You're opposed to the idea of exiting to begin with. So weighing the risks then, do you believe that this firm will help you to reach your full potential?


Weighing the risks is the key. Its the type of offer that will either allow me to reach my full potential (financially and as a lawyer) in a way not possible at a more mainstream firm or it will ruin my career which, I suppose, is not so conducive to me reaching my full potential.

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snailio
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby snailio » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:28 am

Why not take the V100 offer, then lateral over in a few years if you're still interested?

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:39 am

snailio wrote:Why not take the V100 offer, then lateral over in a few years if you're still interested?


That type of firm probably wouldn't want a biglaw lateral, otherwise they'd be finding one right now instead of recruiting people like OP. Big law laterals are damaged goods on the market; that's the secret that biglaw doesn't want you to know.

I have a somewhat similar situation except I already have the offer as a result of my SA. Offer rates for SA's at that firm were about 40% (4 offers--including me--over about 10 SA's in the past handful of years), but if you get an offer, it's like hitting the lottery. Good work hours, relatively interesting work, enter immediately on the partner track and stay there unless you screw it up, have a chance to make big law money in low cost of living area, etc. Only down side is you start at midlaw money (with bonuses that can bring it higher) for the first 3 years before stepping up to biglaw pay.

Personally, I say go for it if you have a good feel for the firm and trust the model. You do have the option of trying to talk to some of their employees prior to making a decision.

People will destroy me for saying this, but BigLaw isn't going anywhere if you strike out in 2LOLCI. If you have the credentials to get it, you can get it after graduation, after you take the bar, or after a clerkship. If you have a chance to avoid biglaw hell with an offer that promises good income, take it and never look back.

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tyro
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby tyro » Wed Aug 31, 2011 4:14 am

Anonymous User wrote:
You're opposed to the idea of exiting to begin with. So weighing the risks then, do you believe that this firm will help you to reach your full potential?


Weighing the risks is the key. Its the type of offer that will either allow me to reach my full potential (financially and as a lawyer) in a way not possible at a more mainstream firm or it will ruin my career which, I suppose, is not so conducive to me reaching my full potential.

You don't want to end up hung up and dried out. So do the work you know you need to do and figure out if their lil clever marketting scheme really does indicate the unmatched benefits you've rephrased. If you've done the work (I think you probably have) then try contacting some insiders (if possible, probably not). This is a path where your backtracking navigation malfunctions. Tough choice given your persona. What steps can you take to predict increased odds at longstanding security? That's your fucking question.

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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 31, 2011 8:20 am

You sound like you want to take it, so I think you should take it.

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rayiner
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby rayiner » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:31 am

Can you split?

Eco
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby Eco » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:35 am

Take the V100 offer if you can't split.

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sunynp
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Re: Your thoughts on my strange offer

Postby sunynp » Wed Aug 31, 2011 9:43 am

Talk to the 3ls here who were no offered before you make a decision. You are taking a huge risk.

I think the advice of the anonymous poster re biglaw is not reliable.




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