Drop out?

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Anonymous User
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:39 pm

You're not screwed. Not saying it's easy, but you can still end up where you want to be. There's just a lot of pressure on you to keep your grades up and to practice/improve your interview skills. You're going to BE screwed if you end up in the bottom half of your T14, but if you can get 5-10% at your T14 and do everything else right (LR/journal, moot court, whatever) you should be OK... though it might not feel that way for a while.

(BTW, I struck out at 2L OCI, 3L OCI was nonexistent, and struck out at clerkships as a 3L.)

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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:(BTW, I struck out at 2L OCI, 3L OCI was nonexistent, and struck out at clerkships as a 3L.)


wait so.. what are you doing now? thanks for the advice!

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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 28, 2011 8:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You're not screwed. Not saying it's easy, but you can still end up where you want to be. There's just a lot of pressure on you to keep your grades up and to practice/improve your interview skills. You're going to BE screwed if you end up in the bottom half of your T14, but if you can get 5-10% at your T14 and do everything else right (LR/journal, moot court, whatever) you should be OK... though it might not feel that way for a while.

(BTW, I struck out at 2L OCI, 3L OCI was nonexistent, and struck out at clerkships as a 3L.)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MskUuuxn ... ge#t=3134s (not that I'm unsympathetic - I have nightmares about striking out in the clerkship race all the time)

Anonymous User
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:(BTW, I struck out at 2L OCI, 3L OCI was nonexistent, and struck out at clerkships as a 3L.)


wait so.. what are you doing now? thanks for the advice!


Clerkship starting next year. Still looking for something to do for the rest of this year, which doesn't sound good, but between 3L and now I've had maybe 4 clerkship interviews off-plan, 2-3 law firm screening interviews, and 1 law firm callback. A few firms also explicitly told me to ask them again when I pass the bar (results come out in November, so they'll know if they have enough new associates or if they could use one more).

The opportunities exist. Just work on your interviewing--I'm 99% certain that's what's been killing me; my stats on paper got me interviews and I just had a hard time turning them into offers.

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Heartford
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Heartford » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
The opportunities exist. Just work on your interviewing--I'm 99% certain that's what's been killing me; my stats on paper got me interviews and I just had a hard time turning them into offers.


Out of curiosity, are you able to identify what it is about your interviewing that wasn't working out?

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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:35 pm

Heartford wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
The opportunities exist. Just work on your interviewing--I'm 99% certain that's what's been killing me; my stats on paper got me interviews and I just had a hard time turning them into offers.


Out of curiosity, are you able to identify what it is about your interviewing that wasn't working out?


There have been a couple things that came out during mock interviews. For example, I've been told to smile more (not grin like a fool, but smile) and be more animated when talking generally, especially about something I'm supposed to be interested in. I'm generally too quiet and "serious" and that comes across as disinterested to the interviewer. Also, rephrasing answers so that it doesn't come across negative in any way, though this hasn't been a problem for a while now. Give answers that allow for follow-ups so the interview feels more like a conversation rather than an interrogation.

Then, there are some other things that I have some idea what's going wrong but am not entirely sure of. I have a hard time following up on their answers to my questions, for example, forcing me to ask another question that was unrelated to the first one, making it more awkward than it needs to be (and might come across as being disinterested in their answer).

I also know that there are simply a variety of unknown factors at any interview, so it's not necessarily every time I don't get an offer it's because I fail. However, after as many interviews as I've had without offers, I think at least some of the above has certainly been a problem in the past.

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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:54 pm

.

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Heartford
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Heartford » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:
There have been a couple things that came out during mock interviews. For example, I've been told to smile more (not grin like a fool, but smile) and be more animated when talking generally, especially about something I'm supposed to be interested in. I'm generally too quiet and "serious" and that comes across as disinterested to the interviewer. Also, rephrasing answers so that it doesn't come across negative in any way, though this hasn't been a problem for a while now. Give answers that allow for follow-ups so the interview feels more like a conversation rather than an interrogation.

Then, there are some other things that I have some idea what's going wrong but am not entirely sure of. I have a hard time following up on their answers to my questions, for example, forcing me to ask another question that was unrelated to the first one, making it more awkward than it needs to be (and might come across as being disinterested in their answer).

I also know that there are simply a variety of unknown factors at any interview, so it's not necessarily every time I don't get an offer it's because I fail. However, after as many interviews as I've had without offers, I think at least some of the above has certainly been a problem in the past.


Interesting and helpful. Thanks! I'm actually impressed that you're able to identify these issues and confront them head-on; it shows a lot of moxie and it's also refreshing to read someone who had a rough OCI but who isn't placing blame on the system or the firms! And sorry to the OP for the slight thread derailment.
Last edited by Heartford on Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Drop out?

Postby ResolutePear » Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:54 am

Drop out. Doooo it. Now.

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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 29, 2011 1:20 am

I think you are asking a reasonable question. It sounds like you gave up a big scholarship to go T14, and not getting anything out of OCI is probably rough. Law school is an investment. I personally assess each step of the way. If I blew 1st semester I may have bailed, depending how bad. Things went well, so I stayed on. If OCI is a wash, I'd consider whether I should bail again. Don't know that I would, but it's reasonable to ask/consider, especially with you still at such a low debt amount. I personally would be more likely to go it a semester, see what you can or can't pull out through mailings and how you do 1st semester. If you get nothing and weak grades, reconsider again. If you do well and/or a job pops up, you have an answer.

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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:45 pm

Don't drop out. Really. I had a terrible 1L year - awful grades both semesters and managed to get a V100 SA. Everyone told me to drop out when I posted on here. Vault 100 was out. NLJ250 was out. BS. I sold hard at OCI and interviewed my ass off and got a job. Now you've "failed" at something you thought you had all worked out. So now is the time to use personality and get yourself out there. Most people will give up so there's actually an opportunity for you.

Start mass mailing. RIGHT NOW.

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Shaggier1
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Shaggier1 » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:43 pm

Don't drop out. Really. I had a terrible 1L year - awful grades both semesters and managed to get a V100 SA. Everyone told me to drop out when I posted on here. Vault 100 was out. NLJ250 was out. BS. I sold hard at OCI and interviewed my ass off and got a job. Now you've "failed" at something you thought you had all worked out. So now is the time to use personality and get yourself out there. Most people will give up so there's actually an opportunity for you.

Start mass mailing. RIGHT NOW.


Either this or drop out. Anything in between would be foolish. I personally would go for the former, but that depends on your constitution.
Last edited by Shaggier1 on Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 29, 2011 11:45 pm

Why would anyone go to Berkeley anymore? You pay more money for worse job prospects than the rest of the T10 schools.


Please feel free to substantiate this.

I just went through Boalt's OCI. I have 4 P's but still got 14 CB's (5 of which were from the V10) and I have 3 offers already (1 V10 and 2 V25's). ~top 40%, non-URM, work experience.

This is anecdotal, of course. But at least I am making some effort to be credible, as opposed to those who simply regurgitate claims about Berkeley's employment prospect without providing any supporting information whatsoever.

Anonymous User
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:13 am

Shaggier1 wrote:
Don't drop out. Really. I had a terrible 1L year - awful grades both semesters and managed to get a V100 SA. Everyone told me to drop out when I posted on here. Vault 100 was out. NLJ250 was out. BS. I sold hard at OCI and interviewed my ass off and got a job. Now you've "failed" at something you thought you had all worked out. So now is the time to use personality and get yourself out there. Most people will give up so there's actually an opportunity for you.

Start mass mailing. RIGHT NOW.


Either this or drop out. Anything in between would be foolish. I personally would go for the former, but that depends on your constitution.


Previous poster here - absolutely. You have to really kill yourself for it and personality, i.e. interview skills, become crucial. Mock interview with your careers office asap.

Anonymous User
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Why would anyone go to Berkeley anymore? You pay more money for worse job prospects than the rest of the T10 schools.


Please feel free to substantiate this.

I just went through Boalt's OCI. I have 4 P's but still got 14 CB's (5 of which were from the V10) and I have 3 offers already (1 V10 and 2 V25's). ~top 40%, non-URM, work experience.

This is anecdotal, of course. But at least I am making some effort to be credible, as opposed to those who simply regurgitate claims about Berkeley's employment prospect without providing any supporting information whatsoever.


Obviously can't quote class-wide employment stats because I have no idea they are, but I will say that Boalt OCI was also very kind to me. I had 15+ callbacks invitations, have done 7 interviews so far (cancelled / turn down some cb invites), and have four offers and no rejections thus far. My record is good (I think top 15 or 20% or so). Have also heard lots of positive news from my classmates thus far.

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ResolutePear
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Re: Drop out?

Postby ResolutePear » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Why would anyone go to Berkeley anymore? You pay more money for worse job prospects than the rest of the T10 schools.


Please feel free to substantiate this.

I just went through Boalt's OCI. I have 4 P's but still got 14 CB's (5 of which were from the V10) and I have 3 offers already (1 V10 and 2 V25's). ~top 40%, non-URM, work experience.

This is anecdotal, of course. But at least I am making some effort to be credible, as opposed to those who simply regurgitate claims about Berkeley's employment prospect without providing any supporting information whatsoever.


Obviously can't quote class-wide employment stats because I have no idea they are, but I will say that Boalt OCI was also very kind to me. I had 15+ callbacks invitations, have done 7 interviews so far (cancelled / turn down some cb invites), and have four offers and no rejections thus far. My record is good (I think top 15 or 20% or so). Have also heard lots of positive news from my classmates thus far.


IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE SENSE

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:46 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Why would anyone go to Berkeley anymore? You pay more money for worse job prospects than the rest of the T10 schools.


Please feel free to substantiate this.

I just went through Boalt's OCI. I have 4 P's but still got 14 CB's (5 of which were from the V10) and I have 3 offers already (1 V10 and 2 V25's). ~top 40%, non-URM, work experience.

This is anecdotal, of course. But at least I am making some effort to be credible, as opposed to those who simply regurgitate claims about Berkeley's employment prospect without providing any supporting information whatsoever.


Obviously can't quote class-wide employment stats because I have no idea they are, but I will say that Boalt OCI was also very kind to me. I had 15+ callbacks invitations, have done 7 interviews so far (cancelled / turn down some cb invites), and have four offers and no rejections thus far. My record is good (I think top 15 or 20% or so). Have also heard lots of positive news from my classmates thus far.


Image

It's well-documented that Boalt has historically placed students into NLJ250 firm jobs and Article III clerkships worse than the other T10 schools.

traydeuce
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Re: Drop out?

Postby traydeuce » Tue Aug 30, 2011 12:49 am

As a GULC clerkship applicant, that's kind of a depressing chart. I would just add, to OP, that aptitude for the law's a kind of scarce commodity, you seem to have it, and you shouldn't quit now. If you were in the bottom of your class it'd be a whole different story.

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Re: Drop out?

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:56 am

It's well-documented that Boalt has historically placed students into NLJ250 firm jobs and Article III clerkships worse than the other T10 schools.


What is the source for this? And what year is it from?

Sup Kid
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Sup Kid » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:What is the source for this? And what year is it from?

+1

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Kronk
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Re: Drop out?

Postby Kronk » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:16 pm

California Babe wrote:People who don't think the debt adds up should visit this link.


Or this one? http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budget

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California Babe
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Re: Drop out?

Postby California Babe » Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:28 pm

Kronk wrote:
California Babe wrote:People who don't think the debt adds up should visit this link.


Or this one? http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... aid/budget


Well obviously they're all expensive. I chose the Berkeley link because OP claims to be incurring $155,000 worth of debt over the next two years and Berkeley's comes closest to achieving that. (Out-of-state costs at $78,000 x 2 years = $156,000, whereas Chicago's costs at $70,000 x 2 years = $140,000.)




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