Plan B: Flee the Country Forum

[Anonymous User]

Ok, so OCIs may have just started at some schools, but at some schools people are already getting CBs, offers and rejections.

A lot of us took on a decent debt load for a 30-60% shot at bigLawl/bigGov, but of course many of us will be unhappy/depressed as we strike out over the next few weeks and months.

If you are in this position what is your plan B?

Even with a nice scholarship, I myself will graduate with about 120K in debt before interest. I do have a wealthy/connected relative in the family, and perhaps I could get some help repaying the loans or some sort of non law job if I tapped this relative, but I don't want to stress out the family and be seen as a failure. This relative is also old and any financial help could end up with the IRS after the estate tax or to a charity via a will. The rest of the family is lower/working class and cannot help at all. It would also be awkward calling up this relatives friends and saying "I'm related to your deceased friend, I can have job now? K thnx bai!" There is also no guarantee the relative would help, as we are not too close.

Thus, I am coming up with backup plans.

1. Work in shitlaw and fake it till I make it.
2. Start a firm with other unemployed graduates, attempt to avoid malpractice.
3. Work a nonlaw/shit job and make up story about JD or 3 year gap in resume
4. Flee country, teach English in Korea or Drive a taxi in Germany(I speak German)
5. Join the military?(maybe too old though)
6. French Foreign Legion
7. Life of crime?
8. Human test subject?

Of course I may be buying to much into the areyouinsnane/scambloggers/profs and maybe 10 years from now I'll be glad I chose to go to a top school and get a JD.


What are your plans?

[Anonymous User]

Prostitution.

[SemperLegal]

Not sure if 5 was serious, but:

Military maxes out at 42, by law at least. DoD standards state that for non prior service ENLISTMENTS the waiverable max is:
Army - 35
Air Force - 27
Navy - 34
Marines - 28
Coast Guard - Age 27. Note: up to age 32 for those selected to attend A-school directly upon enlistment (this is mostly for prior service).

Officers (Non JAG) tend to require commissions before 27-30.

QOL is not so bad, but its actually hard to get in and extremely difficult yo stay in for ten years, especially with the massive force reductions planned for next year. Getting accepted for reenlistment actually involves a fair amount of luck, timing, and positive reviews.

[Anonymous User]

I was thinking British Royal Marines, but I understand the French Foreign Legion asks fewer questions about your background and might therefore be a better place to hide from creditors. Maybe go in house with an African dictator after a few years.

[Anonymous User]

....You know, there are other (perfectly reasonable) jobs that qualify for loan forgiveness right here in the good old USA. Think teacher, police office, social worker, or a host of other positions. Such a broad field, in fact, that you're apt to be able to find at least A JOB that qualifies. And I don't know about you, but in my book, working in a respectable public-service oriented position in the US, making at least 40k, and not
A) getting PTSD
B) forfeiting my ability to return to the US at the ripe age of 20-something

...sure as hell beats running away to some foreign military commitment.

[Anonymous User]

....You know, there are other (perfectly reasonable) jobs that qualify for loan forgiveness right here in the good old USA. Think teacher, police office, social worker, or a host of other positions. Such a broad field, in fact, that you're apt to be able to find at least A JOB that qualifies. And I don't know about you, but in my book, working in a respectable public-service oriented position in the US, making at least 40k, and not
A) getting PTSD
B) forfeiting my ability to return to the US at the ripe age of 20-something

...sure as hell beats running away to some foreign military commitment.

Teaching generally requires going back to school and increasing debt load. Lol @ becoming a police office, most aren't hiring and some have been cutting/laying off, I think a few states are hiring highway patrol because turnover is high. the only credited law enforcement answer is border patrol. Have fun getting hired if you've been smoking weed/snorting adderal, better learn how to pass a polygraph.

[Patriot1208]

I assumed this thread was about:


disappoint

[Heartford]

....You know, there are other (perfectly reasonable) jobs that qualify for loan forgiveness right here in the good old USA. Think teacher, police office, social worker, or a host of other positions. Such a broad field, in fact, that you're apt to be able to find at least A JOB that qualifies. And I don't know about you, but in my book, working in a respectable public-service oriented position in the US, making at least 40k, and not
A) getting PTSD
B) forfeiting my ability to return to the US at the ripe age of 20-something

...sure as hell beats running away to some foreign military commitment.

Teacher and social worker require further degrees, and I agree with the other poster about police jobs not exactly being handed out. Getting any job in America requires experience and usually specialization these days. It's funny how people still think that they can just go pick up a less prestigious job if law school doesn't work out.

My plan B: keeping my chin up after OCI, understanding that I'm not entitled to any job just because I finished 1L, and trying as hard as I can to land a position using good old-fashioned job hunting. The end of OCI isn't the end of the world, as much as TLS makes it seem that way. Lots of recent grads from my school have great jobs, though very few of them were the result of OCI.

[Anonymous User]

The negativity on this board concerning job opportunities ITE can go a little too far. I'm going to assume that the hyper-naysayers on this board have actually worked in REAL jobs/looked for jobs ITE, and aren't just regurgitating conventional wisdom... But still, do you really think that it is preferable to forfeit your chances to live in the US forever over taking on additional debt, if necessary, to retrain for a loan-forgiveness eligible job?

And there's plenty of law enforcement work in the US, work that even the occasional toker could qualify for. Do you really think that prior drug use - talking about marijuana, not Meth addiction, FYI - is really going to disqualify you for everything? You think each of the 37,000 police officers in the NYPD has led a totally clean life??

[Patriot1208]

The negativity on this board concerning job opportunities ITE can go a little too far. I'm going to assume that the hyper-naysayers on this board have actually worked in REAL jobs/looked for jobs ITE, and aren't just regurgitating conventional wisdom... But still, do you really think that it is preferable to forfeit your chances to live in the US forever over taking on additional debt, if necessary, to retrain for a loan-forgiveness eligible job?

And there's plenty of law enforcement work in the US, work that even the occasional toker could qualify for. Do you really think that prior drug use - talking about marijuana, not Meth addiction, FYI - is really going to disqualify you for everything? You think each of the 37,000 police officers in the NYPD has led a totally clean life??

This is false. Law enforcement is extremely hard to get right now. Most states/counties/cities are only hiring a couple cops per cycle right now because of budget issues. And most of those job openings have at least 400+ applicants, usually multiple which will have already worked as a cop but were laid off or are trying to move. And federal law enforcement, besides the border patrol, is all but shut down (though I saw that the fbi opened up the recruiting process for one month only). Though, in regards to the previous poster about the border patrol, they currently aren't polygraphing every applicant, but I heard they are going to change that sometime in the near future. And you are right, border patrol is probably the easiest law enforcement job you can get right now. They are pushing through classes about every other week currently.

Also, why is everyone so anon?

[nothingtosee]

To further rain on the teacher parade, teaching in low income school districts is a good way to get rid of some loans. Federal loans go away after five years, and some lenders (especially credit unions) may do a graduated (sp?) route e.g. 10% for first 2 years, 20% years 3-4, 40% year five of full forgiveness.

But good luck getting your private lenders to give a fuck.

[Anonymous User]

To further rain on the teacher parade, teaching in low income school districts is a good way to get rid of some loans. Federal loans go away after five years, and some lenders (especially credit unions) may do a graduated (sp?) route e.g. 10% for first 2 years, 20% years 3-4, 40% year five of full forgiveness.

But good luck getting your private lenders to give a fuck.

I spent two years searching for teaching work after being laid off during the economy crash as a teacher in a very low-income school district. Applied to over 200 districts, didn't even get an interview. Sure, this was 2008/2009 when things were really bad, but believe me when I tell you that they're not much better now. Good luck joining the breadlines, especially without a teaching cert.

Edited to add: The funny thing on TLS is that everyone forgets that EVERY JOB MARKET sucks right now. People spend lots of time trying to convince people that law school isn't worth it, but I suspect that most of those people need a reality check on other employment prospects in this country. Sure, the legal job market sucks but how many other industries are actually coming on to campuses to recruit students who have essentially no experience? Speaking from experience, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer than an unemployed teacher.

[Borhas]

I'll join the armed forces if I can't get a job within a 9-12 months.

if they don't want me I'll go teach English in Tajikstan or some shit like that

[Patriot1208]

Speaking from experience, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer than an unemployed teacher.

I get your whole post except this sentence. Why does it matter if you are unemployed? And isn't being an unemployed lawyer worse because generally that means you are unemployed and in a lot of debt?

[TheFactor]

Speaking from experience, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer than an unemployed teacher.

I get your whole post except this sentence. Why does it matter if you are unemployed? And isn't being an unemployed lawyer worth because generally that means you are unemployed and in a lot of debt?

but teachers aren't presfigious

[Anonymous User]

Speaking from experience, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer than an unemployed teacher.

I get your whole post except this sentence. Why does it matter if you are unemployed? And isn't being an unemployed lawyer worth because generally that means you are unemployed and in a lot of debt?

An unemployed lawyer at least has the capacity to drum up shitlaw work for himself, or doc review, or or any of the other terrible things you hear about. He can even help his uncle with a property claim or write his parents' wills.

At least as an unemployed lawyer you're still a lawyer. An unemployed teacher can't do anything. I literally applied to Starbucks, McDonald's, Denny's, and every retail job I could think of, and got nothing. Overqualified. The few interviews I got focused upon the question, "Well, wouldn't you rather be teaching?" And when you're forced to either put your master's degree and teaching cert on your resume or explain a gaping 3-year gap, there's no way to convince a McDonald's manager that you legitimately want to make a career out of mopping up McPuke in the men's room until 2AM. The same thing will likely happen to you once you have a law degree, but again, you'll be able to do something.

I'm speaking more from the perspective of avoiding suicidal thoughts brought on by a profound sense of purposelessness which, when you're actually at that point in your life, is actually more important than whether you're rolling in dollah dollah billz, or even whether you're able to make rent. Or your student loan payments.

[descartesb4thehorse]

Speaking from experience, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer than an unemployed teacher.

I get your whole post except this sentence. Why does it matter if you are unemployed? And isn't being an unemployed lawyer worth because generally that means you are unemployed and in a lot of debt?

An unemployed lawyer at least has the capacity to drum up shitlaw work for himself, or doc review, or or any of the other terrible things you hear about. He can even help his uncle with a property claim or write his parents' wills.

At least as an unemployed lawyer you're still a lawyer. An unemployed teacher can't do anything. I literally applied to Starbucks, McDonald's, Denny's, and every retail job I could think of, and got nothing. Overqualified. The few interviews I got focused upon the question, "Well, wouldn't you rather be teaching?" And when you're forced to either put your master's degree and teaching cert on your resume or explain a gaping 3-year gap, there's no way to convince a McDonald's manager that you legitimately want to make a career out of mopping up McPuke in the men's room until 2AM. The same thing will likely happen to you once you have a law degree, but again, you'll be able to do something.

I'm speaking more from the perspective of avoiding suicidal thoughts brought on by a profound sense of purposelessness which, when you're actually at that point in your life, is actually more important than whether you're rolling in dollah dollah billz, or even whether you're able to make rent. Or your student loan payments.

I'm not trying to belittle your situation, but I know a lot of people who have graduated in my region in the past 2-5 years with teaching specializations. Most got comfy, entry-level jobs at the public high schools. One is teaching English in a French school for 18 months. The worst on the totem pole is doing what I'm doing, sort of a legal secretary. She had done subbing for a while (subbing=doc review, no?) and was hired even after fully disclosing that she'd rather be teaching.

Not saying it's easy, but there are jobs out there for teachers who can't find work. And none of them have that much debt, certainly nothing like the 150k pool I'm about to jump into.

[Anonymous User]

Speaking from experience, I'd rather be an unemployed lawyer than an unemployed teacher.

I get your whole post except this sentence. Why does it matter if you are unemployed? And isn't being an unemployed lawyer worth because generally that means you are unemployed and in a lot of debt?

An unemployed lawyer at least has the capacity to drum up shitlaw work for himself, or doc review, or or any of the other terrible things you hear about. He can even help his uncle with a property claim or write his parents' wills.

At least as an unemployed lawyer you're still a lawyer. An unemployed teacher can't do anything. I literally applied to Starbucks, McDonald's, Denny's, and every retail job I could think of, and got nothing. Overqualified. The few interviews I got focused upon the question, "Well, wouldn't you rather be teaching?" And when you're forced to either put your master's degree and teaching cert on your resume or explain a gaping 3-year gap, there's no way to convince a McDonald's manager that you legitimately want to make a career out of mopping up McPuke in the men's room until 2AM. The same thing will likely happen to you once you have a law degree, but again, you'll be able to do something.

I'm speaking more from the perspective of avoiding suicidal thoughts brought on by a profound sense of purposelessness which, when you're actually at that point in your life, is actually more important than whether you're rolling in dollah dollah billz, or even whether you're able to make rent. Or your student loan payments.

I'm not trying to belittle your situation, but I know a lot of people who have graduated in my region in the past 2-5 years with teaching specializations. Most got comfy, entry-level jobs at the public high schools. One is teaching English in a French school for 18 months. The worst on the totem pole is doing what I'm doing, sort of a legal secretary. She had done subbing for a while (subbing=doc review, no?) and was hired even after fully disclosing that she'd rather be teaching.

Not saying it's easy, but there are jobs out there for teachers who can't find work. And none of them have that much debt, certainly nothing like the 150k pool I'm about to jump into.

Ok cool. I'm glad everything worked out for your friends. But I was talking about situations where one cannot find work. See the difference?

[descartesb4thehorse]

I mean someone, dunno if it was you, turned this shit into a who has it worse, unemployed lawyers or teachers. And the answer is and will always be the guy who is 150k in debt.

[Anonymous User]

I mean someone, dunno if it was you, turned this shit into a who has it worse, unemployed lawyers or teachers. And the answer is and will always be the guy who is 150k in debt.

Having been the other guy for a while, and decided I'd rather be the in-debt guy, I disagree. For the reasons I articulated above. But whatever- you must know better than me because of your extensive life experience.

[Anonymous User]

The key is to work any job you can and remember in most states the maximum allowable wage garnishment will be less than the minimum loan payments.

[BrianGriffintheDog]

This is just too fucking hilarious.

[barry]

what about private/Catholic high school teacher, I think they are a little more lax on being a teacher by trade especially if you have a good degree (math, science, jd-hopefully) I have some friends that teach at my old high school that i don't think were teaching majors

[Holly Golightly]

Bartender in Nice.