1L summer help

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UML
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1L summer help

Postby UML » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:06 am

I’ll be starting 1L in 2 weeks and I’m trying to get a jump on the 1L job search by assembling a spreadsheet of firms and in-house legal jobs to which I will apply. Here is my methodology for identifying firms:

1. Blanket the V-100 and NLJ 250, regardless of market.

2. Use NALP directory to identify respectable firms in:
a. My law school’s market (secondary)
b. My undergraduate school’s market (secondary)
c. My home market (secondary)
d. My wife’s home market (secondary)
e. The market where I grew up (secondary)
f. The market where my wife’s extended family resides (Boston)
g. DC & Chicago, markets where I hope to work upon graduation

My spreadsheets will have columns for firm name, website, link to “employment” page, location of main office, and location of satellite offices in my “a-g” markets. What other information should the spreadsheet include?

Also, say a V-100 is based in NY and has a satellite office in a secondary market I’m interested in. To which office will I send my resume?

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Grizz
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby Grizz » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:10 am

Identify govt legs and judges, who will assuredly be more willing to hire you.

UML
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby UML » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:11 am

Grizz wrote:Identify govt legs and judges, who will assuredly be more willing to hire you.

Appreciated, but I will need paying work to support my family.

crazyblink653
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby crazyblink653 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:12 am

UML wrote:I’ll be starting 1L in 2 weeks and I’m trying to get a jump on the 1L job search by assembling a spreadsheet of firms and in-house legal jobs to which I will apply. Here is my methodology for identifying firms:

1. Blanket the V-100 and NLJ 250, regardless of market.

2. Use NALP directory to identify respectable firms in:
a. My law school’s market (secondary)
b. My undergraduate school’s market (secondary)
c. My home market (secondary)
d. My wife’s home market (secondary)
e. The market where I grew up (secondary)
f. The market where my wife’s extended family resides (Boston)
g. DC & Chicago, markets where I hope to work upon graduation

My spreadsheets will have columns for firm name, website, link to “employment” page, location of main office, and location of satellite offices in my “a-g” markets. What other information should the spreadsheet include?

Also, say a V-100 is based in NY and has a satellite office in a secondary market I’m interested in. To which office will I send my resume?


this sounds really good and all, but i think you're putting WAY too much thought into this...there's just such a dearth of firm jobs for 1Ls (and the majority of the ones available are filled primarily through minority hiring programs or nepotism), that i don't think you'll get a very good return on your time investment. if you REALLY want to maximize your chances of getting a firm job for your 1l summer, finish at the top of your class, and to put yourself in the best position to do that you should be reading nutshells for all the doctrinal courses you'll have your first semester, and not wasting your two weeks plugging data.

UML
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby UML » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:16 am

crazyblink653 wrote:this sounds really good and all, but i think you're putting WAY too much thought into this...there's just such a dearth of firm jobs for 1Ls (and the majority of the ones available are filled primarily through minority hiring programs or nepotism), that i don't think you'll get a very good return on your time investment. if you REALLY want to maximize your chances of getting a firm job for your 1l summer, finish at the top of your class, and to put yourself in the best position to do that you should be reading nutshells for all the doctrinal courses you'll have your first semester, and not wasting your two weeks plugging data.

My wife will be plugging the data for me, I'm presently doing LEEWS, GTM, & Delaney's two books. I'll consider nutshells once my section is finalized.

crazyblink653
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby crazyblink653 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:22 am

UML wrote:
crazyblink653 wrote:this sounds really good and all, but i think you're putting WAY too much thought into this...there's just such a dearth of firm jobs for 1Ls (and the majority of the ones available are filled primarily through minority hiring programs or nepotism), that i don't think you'll get a very good return on your time investment. if you REALLY want to maximize your chances of getting a firm job for your 1l summer, finish at the top of your class, and to put yourself in the best position to do that you should be reading nutshells for all the doctrinal courses you'll have your first semester, and not wasting your two weeks plugging data.

My wife will be plugging the data for me, I'm presently doing LEEWS, GTM, & Delaney's two books.


sounds like you're really on top of your game then...then i would definitely begin with the NALP directory. it will give you great data about the firms, as well as an idea of what firms hire 1Ls (if they haven't hired any 1Ls the past few summers, I wouldn't bother putting them on your spreadsheet, even if they're in one of your target markets).

In-house jobs are more difficult to come by..everyone i knew who worked in-house this summer got it through some connection they had. the other problem is that there's no comparable data clearinghouse of in-house jobs like there is for law firms (i.e., there's no NALP directory for in-house jobs). If you want to go in-house, I would suggest you start working whatever network you have. if you have any friends, family members, acquaintances, former business partners, etc. that work in a corporation that has a in-house legal consult department, i would begin reaching out to them now. obviously, don't come straight out saying "i want a job," but just re-initiate contact, especially if it's someone you haven't talked to in a while. What works best for me is to reach out and say, "I'm starting law school in a few weeks and I was wondering if you know anyone in your company's in-house legal department that might be willing to speak with me about their experiences. i'd love to get some advice on how to succeed in law school, how they narrowed down their career path, etc." almost always works. once you have that initial conversation, just send them periodic updates throughout the semester to keep you on their radar.

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Grizz
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby Grizz » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:23 am

UML wrote:
Grizz wrote:Identify govt legs and judges, who will assuredly be more willing to hire you.

Appreciated, but I will need paying work to support my family.

Michigan should offer stipends to cover it.

What secondaries are you targeting? Some do hire significant numbers of 1Ls.

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englawyer
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby englawyer » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:25 am

even if your priority is firm jobs, you should absolutely take a gov't search seriously. as someone said, michigan probably has a stipend program for public interest work, and it is just much more feasible. I would particularly recommend applying to US Attorney's Office. It seems pretty attainable but it is considered very good/prestigious.

UML
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby UML » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:27 am

Grizz wrote:What secondaries are you targeting? Some do hire significant numbers of 1Ls.


Detroit, Columbus, Louisville, Cincinnati, Nashville, Boston + DC/Chicago

UML
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby UML » Mon Aug 22, 2011 11:53 am

crazyblink653 wrote:...then i would definitely begin with the NALP directory. it will give you great data about the firms, as well as an idea of what firms hire 1Ls (if they haven't hired any 1Ls the past few summers, I wouldn't bother putting them on your spreadsheet, even if they're in one of your target markets).

That's a good tip that will help pare down the list. What specific information from the NALP should I include in my spreadsheet? Should I note lawyers who went to my undergrad or to Michigan? What can I include in my spreadsheet now that will make my application process less burdensome during the semester?

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:47 pm

UML wrote:
Grizz wrote:What secondaries are you targeting? Some do hire significant numbers of 1Ls.


Detroit, Columbus, Louisville, Cincinnati, Nashville, Boston + DC/Chicago


If you're at Michigan, you have a good chance of getting a paid 1L gig in one of the first five markets. Some firms there will hire from UM and comparable schools without waiting for grades. Mail your materials as early as possible, so that they have time to bring you in over winter break for an interview.

Also a warning, in case you didn't already know: in the smaller markets it's a very very small world. It's one thing to understand that in theory, it's another thing to realize during an interview that your wife's dermatologist is the uncle of a senior associate. Lawyers from different firms talk to each other and so do the firm recruiters and HR people. Almost all of them have a wide circle of relatives, friends, former classmates and acquaintances in the community. Instead of "six degrees of separation" there's probably at most 2 degrees of separation between any two people in each market's legal community and maybe 3 or 4 degrees between any two people in the market. Use good judgment whenever you are talking to people from these cities or talking in a public place, especially if you're mentioning any firm or attorney by name. The same logic applies to a lesser degree across nearby markets (i.e. talking sh-t about a firm in Cincinnati might come back to bite you in Columbus or Louisville).

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Grizz
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby Grizz » Mon Aug 22, 2011 2:56 pm

Nash hires a not insignificant number of 1Ls. Best advice for getting a job there? Get high grades.

Anonymous User
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:02 pm

UML wrote:My spreadsheets will have columns for firm name, website, link to “employment” page, location of main office, and location of satellite offices in my “a-g” markets. What other information should the spreadsheet include?


Number of attorneys in the office and number of summers in that office last year (offices will have separate NALP info). That will tell you something about whether, for that firm, it's worth the added risk of sounding less decisive to try to broaden your odds of hire by applying to more than one office. If a firm hires 10+ summers in Columbus every year and 0-1 in Lousiville, just apply to Columbus. The single summer hired in Louisville in the past 2 or 3 years is probably a one-off situation and you'll just sound less focused without really upping your odds of hire. If they hire 10+ in Columbus every year and 4-5 in Louisville, it might be worth it to indicate flexibility to work in either.

ETA: you probably don't want to apply to more than one office by sending separate packages. I meant that in some cases you might indicate, in your cover letter, that you're interested in more than one office.

UML wrote:Also, say a V-100 is based in NY and has a satellite office in a secondary market I’m interested in. To which office will I send my resume?

Follow the instructions on the firm's website for applying to the satellite office (assuming you're not applying to the NY one). Some firms will filter all applications through one central contact at headquarters, other firms will have a contact in each office and some firms will have contacts in a few (but not all) locations, each of whom is responsible for one or more offices' hiring.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

duckmoney
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby duckmoney » Mon Aug 22, 2011 3:10 pm

Very helpful thread. Is it worth finding alumni who work for the firms you're applying to, or is a cold email from a random 1L worth anything to a practicing lawyer?

crazyblink653
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby crazyblink653 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:13 pm

duckmoney wrote:Very helpful thread. Is it worth finding alumni who work for the firms you're applying to, or is a cold email from a random 1L worth anything to a practicing lawyer?


yes, if you handle the situation the right way. i would begin by reaching out to alumni EARLY in the year (probably September). Structure the initial email such that you just want advice about doing well in law school, good profs they had, etc. they'll more than likely love the opportunity to talk about their experience with you, either in person or via phone. once you make this initial contact, just keep in touch throughout the semester.

as a 1L you'll be prohibited from sending out CL and resumes before December 1, anyway, so your ideal timeline should be something like this: (1) initial contact in early sept; (2) follow-up email sometime in mid to late October; and (3) email shortly before December 1 deadline saying something like "i saw your firm is hiring 1Ls this year. I just thought I'd let you know i'm applying and hope I have the opportunity to work with you in the future." or something like that. hopefully if you've made a good impression at steps 1 and 2, he/she'll put in a good word for you and at least get you a screening interview.

crazyblink653
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby crazyblink653 » Mon Aug 22, 2011 4:15 pm

UML wrote:
crazyblink653 wrote:...then i would definitely begin with the NALP directory. it will give you great data about the firms, as well as an idea of what firms hire 1Ls (if they haven't hired any 1Ls the past few summers, I wouldn't bother putting them on your spreadsheet, even if they're in one of your target markets).

That's a good tip that will help pare down the list. What specific information from the NALP should I include in my spreadsheet? Should I note lawyers who went to my undergrad or to Michigan? What can I include in my spreadsheet now that will make my application process less burdensome during the semester?


frankly, all I would have on there is the firm name, its main location, significant satellite offices, the recruiting coordinator (or whoever you send resumes to) and his or her contact info, and then any alumni who work there who either went to your undergrad or LS. maybe also include number of attorneys firm wide and at the specific office you're interested in, as well as the size of their SA class. other than that, i wouldn't go into too much depth.

duckmoney
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Re: 1L summer help

Postby duckmoney » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:15 pm

How should you handle firms with multiple offices that you have ties to / want to work in?

Scenario one: Firm has offices in Chicago and Atlanta. You have ties to both. 2 different recruiting coordinators. Do you just apply to both and not tell the other? Do you tell them you're applying to other one? Do you not mention it? Or should you only apply to one or other?

Scenario two: Firm has offices in Chicago and Atlanta. They share the same recruiting coordinator in Chicago. What do you do? Do you say "I want to work in both offices" or do you have to pick one?

Scenario two: Firm has offices in Detroit, Chicago, and Atlanta; you have ties to all 3. Detroit and Chicago both recruit out of Chicago; Atlanta recruits out of the NYC office. Now things are really complicated....




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