Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:05 am

Bumped for 2012. Original OP still here.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Lawquacious » Sat Aug 11, 2012 12:14 am

Edit: sorry lol... my stupid comment was stupid.

thx for taking qs

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 11, 2012 11:32 pm

Just discovered this thread... I am an emerging 0L from Detroit area hoping stay in the area and work in the Detroit market.

Do you have any thoughts on how firms evaluate candidates based on which law school they attend? Obviously grades and extracurriculars like LR are significant factors, but I am curious how firms weigh T14 schools/lower ranked tier one like ND/local including WSU, U of D, and MSU.
I expect to have a big decision to make in terms of accepting a scholarship from lesser ranked local schools (MSU, WSU, UofD) or incurring significant debt from a T14. What's your perspective on this choice?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 12, 2012 10:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:Just discovered this thread... I am an emerging 0L from Detroit area hoping stay in the area and work in the Detroit market.

Do you have any thoughts on how firms evaluate candidates based on which law school they attend? Obviously grades and extracurriculars like LR are significant factors, but I am curious how firms weigh T14 schools/lower ranked tier one like ND/local including WSU, U of D, and MSU.
I expect to have a big decision to make in terms of accepting a scholarship from lesser ranked local schools (MSU, WSU, UofD) or incurring significant debt from a T14. What's your perspective on this choice?


If you surveyed the top 10 Detroit firms, I think you'd find that Wayne leads the next school, Michigan, by a considerable amount. After that, I'd imagine Notre Dame and MSU are in the 3/4 spots, followed by Toledo, followed by U of D, with Toledo/U of D considerably trailing the third spot.

If you're completely set on working in Detroit/SE Michigan, and you're offered a full ride to Wayne, and you're comfortable you can maintain that ride, based on whatever conditions are placed on it, and you are comfortable you can post a GPA above 3.0, than I could see picking Wayne over significant debt from a t14. I'm not saying you should, but I think a strong case could be made.

A significant scholarship at Notre Dame vs. full tuition at a t14? Again, I could see picking Notre Dame. It's going to give you options in Detroit and options elsewhere, plus you're limiting debt.

We interview a handful of t14 students from schools outside Michigan every year, typically with Michigan ties, but not always. I can't remember the last time we hired one. Either we have offered and been turned down for NY/Chicago or they haven't nailed the interview. The fact they're going to a t14 doesn't seem to matter much in our overall evaluation. A bit, sure, but everyone we do a callback with has good grades and significant achievements. Ultimately, the interview is what decides whether someone gets an offer or not. Where going to a t14 helps you is that you're going to have many more OCI interviews outside of Michigan, so if you don't land a spot in the D, you're more likely to have other options, instead of being left out in the cold.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:25 pm

This is relevant to my interests. I am very interested in anything you can share about likelihood/ease of landing a job in a top Detroit firm as a Michigan student vs odds as a WSU/MSU student.
For example, would a firm be willing to pick a Michigan grad with lower grades?
Where do WSU/MSU students need to fall to be considered - top 5/10/25%?
You mentioned that WSU is the biggest feeder for top firms, do you think this is due to a genuine preference for these students or a lack of interest from Michigan grads (ie less Michigan students shoot for Detroit and are instead going big law in NYC etc)?

I also have a few questions concerning associate positions...
Do you have any guesses on the future of the top Detroit firms in terms of hiring, ie do you think firms will keep hiring at a steady rate or take more/less associates?
How is the lifespan of associates at your firm? Do they typically stay with the firm unless they choose to leave or are some fired?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby dsn32 » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:50 pm

0L here just beginning my cycle... based on the local nature of WSU, would going there with significant $$$ be preferable (in terms of big Michigan firms hiring) to a Midwest T1 with significant $$$ (think IU, ND, Minn) for someone who has lived in the state their entire life and attended UM undergrad? Obviously the career prospects at the T1s offer a little more wiggle room if my grades aren't top-notch... but I can see the argument for staying local as well.

Same goes for UM vs. any other T14. Would attending, say UVA, instead significantly hurt my chances of coming back home?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:18 am

T14 East Coaster looking to return home (MI). How is 3L hiring looking in the murder mitten?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Pathika » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:24 am

Anonymous User wrote:Bumped for 2012. Original OP still here.


I'm hoping you can give me some suggestions on what I can do to "prove" my commitment to staying in Michigan. I have several years (see nearly a decade) of work experience and am a 1L at UMich. I am married with two kids, and the companies I have worked for have all been Fortune 100 companies with offices all over the country, so my wife and I have moved around quite a bit. My wife is from the midwest (Minnesota) and she loves it, but I have never lived here. I've been in Ann Arbor for about 5 months now and love it, and snow doesn't bother me, so that isn't going to change. I definitely want to stay in Michigan, but I am afraid employers might shy away from me because I have no ties to Michigan, other than attending UMich, I'm from California (which I imagine most employers will look at and think I want to go back), and, unless I can find a paying 1L gig in Michigan, I will be working in CA for my 1L summer because a prior business colleague of mine is a partner at a major firm in CA and has left the offer open for me to get a paid job there. Because I no longer have a full-time job, I can't really afford to not get paid during the summer (wife is a stay-at-home mom), but I'm seriously concerned about how it will look for Michigan employers during OCI when they see I worked in CA my first summer.

I'm hoping the fact that I'm married with kids will act in my favor, my family life acting as an "anchor" to stay here, but I doubt that will be enough. I'm also a vet, but I doubt that has any bearing on my likelihood to stay in Michigan.

One of my professors was a 20+ year partner at Dickinson and was on the hiring committee, and I've talked with him on several occasions about wanting to stay here and he has not only told me it shouldn't be an issue, but he has gone as far as giving me a list of employers that, based on my personality and goals, would be the best firms to apply to, his old firm included. He made it seem as if it shouldn't be an issue, but after reading this thread, I'm very concerned I may be screwed out of a job in Michigan. Please give me any advice on how to establish ties to Michigan.

So far, I've registered our vehicles here, registered to vote, joined the Washtenaw County Bar Association, and my daughter is on a waiting list at a private school in Ann Arbor for next school year (my son isn't old enough for school, yet). What else should I do?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:For example, would a firm be willing to pick a Michigan grad with lower grades?
Where do WSU/MSU students need to fall to be considered - top 5/10/25%?
You mentioned that WSU is the biggest feeder for top firms, do you think this is due to a genuine preference for these students or a lack of interest from Michigan grads (ie less Michigan students shoot for Detroit and are instead going big law in NYC etc)?

I also have a few questions concerning associate positions...
Do you have any guesses on the future of the top Detroit firms in terms of hiring, ie do you think firms will keep hiring at a steady rate or take more/less associates?
How is the lifespan of associates at your firm? Do they typically stay with the firm unless they choose to leave or are some fired?


1. I would not group Wayne and MSU. It is considerably easier to get a Detroit firm job from Wayne than MSU.

2. There isn't an easy answer to your question about UM v. Wayne. Michigan guy with 3.9, law review and no Michigan ties may not even get a screener with my firm because of his lack of ties, while Wayne guy with 3.3, no law review, and pre-law school work experience in Southeast Michigan could get a screener and, if he kills it, a callback. The GPA range for UM and Wayne is similar. Anything above a 3.3 gives you a good shot if your other variables are positive, but ties are a must. It really starts with ties in this market. The main advantage of Michigan is that it gives you NY/Chicago fallback options if the Michigan market doesn't work out.

3. There are no hard GPA or rank cutoffs at my firm. We have, in the past, looked at candidates with GPAs below 3.0 if there are other factors that make a candidate attractive, but this is extremely rare. If you're trying to get a callback from a campus we do not recruit at, you need to make an impression on the recruiting director. Generally, being in the top 25 percent and being on law review obviously makes that easier, but there are many other criteria - work experience, diversity, personal connections, etc. If you're from MSU/Toledo/U of D, I like your chances a lot more if you have a 3.5 or above and you're on law review.

4. Although we hire more from Wayne than UM, there isn't a huge gap between the two schools. UM is a solid No. 2. The biggest factors for this gap? (1) Many Michigan students are from out of state; (2) Michigan students with Michigan ties have more out-of-state options than Wayne students; (3) the out-of-state options pay more than the Detroit market in many cases. Our offer-to-acceptance yield is lower with Michigan students, but I wouldn't say Wayne students are our second choice. We're typically offering candidates from both schools at the same time.

5. The Detroit economic climate is good right now, but I can't predict the future. So much of whether firms are hiring at a steady rate, etc., has to do with individual firm management.

6. The majority of our associates stay with the firm and make partner after 5 to 8 years, but a large number of associates also leave for other options. Firm life isn't for everyone.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:04 am

dsn32 wrote:0L here just beginning my cycle... based on the local nature of WSU, would going there with significant $$$ be preferable (in terms of big Michigan firms hiring) to a Midwest T1 with significant $$$ (think IU, ND, Minn) for someone who has lived in the state their entire life and attended UM undergrad? Obviously the career prospects at the T1s offer a little more wiggle room if my grades aren't top-notch... but I can see the argument for staying local as well.

Same goes for UM vs. any other T14. Would attending, say UVA, instead significantly hurt my chances of coming back home?


As I said above, if you're completely set on working in Detroit/SE Michigan, and you're offered a full ride to Wayne, and you're comfortable you can maintain that ride, based on whatever conditions are placed on it, and you are comfortable you can post a GPA above 3.0, than I could see picking Wayne over significant debt from a t14. I'm not saying you should, but I think a strong case could be made.

You're going to have a better chance landing in Detroit from Wayne or UM than any other school. Why? Because all the Detroit firms have on-campus interviews at those schools and that is the easiest route to a callback.

That said, we regularly interview students with Michigan ties from out-of-market schools if they are attractive enough candidates to get on our radar. Within the last few years I can remember candidates from Texas, Virginia, Penn, Washington & Lee, Pepperdine, Georgetown, Washington (St. Louis), Wisconsin, Indiana and Illinois (off the top of my head). How did they get interviews? Typically by mass mailing our recruiting director and he was impressed with their resume.

We interview from ND every year and IU/OSU/Illinois/Washington (St. Louis) candidates are not rare. Minnesota has no presence in our market and is no different than trying to break in here from, say, Vandy or George Mason.

I cannot stress enough, though, that once those candidates get a callback, their law school is almost completely irrelevant. Grades/law review are also mostly irrelevant at that point. Everyone we bring in for a callback is qualified. At that point, it's all about the interview - do you have a personality and do we want to work with you?

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:T14 East Coaster looking to return home (MI). How is 3L hiring looking in the murder mitten?


Unfortunately, almost nonexistent.

I would recommend attempting to clerk in state. Mass mail the Supreme Court, Michigan Court of Appeals and the federal courts.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:19 am

Pathika wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bumped for 2012. Original OP still here.


I'm hoping you can give me some suggestions on what I can do to "prove" my commitment to staying in Michigan. I have several years (see nearly a decade) of work experience and am a 1L at UMich. I am married with two kids, and the companies I have worked for have all been Fortune 100 companies with offices all over the country, so my wife and I have moved around quite a bit. My wife is from the midwest (Minnesota) and she loves it, but I have never lived here. I've been in Ann Arbor for about 5 months now and love it, and snow doesn't bother me, so that isn't going to change. I definitely want to stay in Michigan, but I am afraid employers might shy away from me because I have no ties to Michigan, other than attending UMich, I'm from California (which I imagine most employers will look at and think I want to go back), and, unless I can find a paying 1L gig in Michigan, I will be working in CA for my 1L summer because a prior business colleague of mine is a partner at a major firm in CA and has left the offer open for me to get a paid job there. Because I no longer have a full-time job, I can't really afford to not get paid during the summer (wife is a stay-at-home mom), but I'm seriously concerned about how it will look for Michigan employers during OCI when they see I worked in CA my first summer.

I'm hoping the fact that I'm married with kids will act in my favor, my family life acting as an "anchor" to stay here, but I doubt that will be enough. I'm also a vet, but I doubt that has any bearing on my likelihood to stay in Michigan.

One of my professors was a 20+ year partner at Dickinson and was on the hiring committee, and I've talked with him on several occasions about wanting to stay here and he has not only told me it shouldn't be an issue, but he has gone as far as giving me a list of employers that, based on my personality and goals, would be the best firms to apply to, his old firm included. He made it seem as if it shouldn't be an issue, but after reading this thread, I'm very concerned I may be screwed out of a job in Michigan. Please give me any advice on how to establish ties to Michigan.

So far, I've registered our vehicles here, registered to vote, joined the Washtenaw County Bar Association, and my daughter is on a waiting list at a private school in Ann Arbor for next school year (my son isn't old enough for school, yet). What else should I do?


You are correct to be concerned. I would not recommend that you put all your eggs in the Michigan basket. A year from now you should also bid the California and Minnesota firms high at Michigan OCI. If you work in California 1L summer, you have very, very little shot at staying here IMO. Instead of going to Cali 1L summer, my suggestion would be to clerk with a federal judge in the Eastern District of Michigan (as many UM students do). This type of experience is attractive to Detroit firms, will give you a great writing sample, and will prove your commitment to the market.

I'd also recommend tempering your language a bit. You're not being "screwed" out of anything. Firms are evaluating from a business perspective and your lack of Michigan ties make you more likely to leave the market.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Pathika » Mon Aug 20, 2012 3:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You are correct to be concerned. I would not recommend that you put all your eggs in the Michigan basket. A year from now you should also bid the California and Minnesota firms high at Michigan OCI. If you work in California 1L summer, you have very, very little shot at staying here IMO. Instead of going to Cali 1L summer, my suggestion would be to clerk with a federal judge in the Eastern District of Michigan (as many UM students do). This type of experience is attractive to Detroit firms, will give you a great writing sample, and will prove your commitment to the market.

I'd also recommend tempering your language a bit. You're not being "screwed" out of anything. Firms are evaluating from a business perspective and your lack of Michigan ties make you more likely to leave the market.

OP


I apologize for the "screwed" comment... but the reasons I decided to come to Michigan were the fact that the state offers a high quality of life coupled with a low cost of living, the school system in Ann Arbor is amazing, it is a family friendly area, and I want to work here when I graduate. I assumed (albeit, foolishly, it appears) that going to school here rather than Stanford, for instance, would give me a better chance of finding employment here.

From your perspective, does someone with my ties to Michigan (see: none) automatically get dinged during the interview (my understanding of our OCI is that employers don't get to choose who they interview, so if I were dumb enough to bid only Michigan employers, I would get to interview with them), or have you heard compelling cases from people with no ties to Michigan that have been able to make it work?

And, I would love to clerk/intern, but because of the financial aspect, I can't pass up a paying job, especially one that will pay $30k over the summer, albeit in California. Do you think pleading financial necessity for a paying job for 1L summer, and hence working in CA, is something that can be overcome, or is it completely a DOA situation?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2012 4:55 pm

No apology necessary. And going to Michigan rather than Stanford does give you a better chance at a job in Michigan. If you were going to Stanford, with no Michigan ties, you would have no chance.

You are correct that you will likely be able to bid on, and probably obtain, OCI screeners with Michigan firms, so no, you would not be an "automatic" ding. But you would be facing an extremely uphill climb, an impossible climb in my experience if you opt to spend 1L summer in California. Maybe you are an amazing interviewer and will impress everyone at your screeners so much that this advice will not apply to you. Maybe you can make connections through UM or the bar association that will overcome your lack of ties. Maybe (insert TLS smart ass comment here). But you're betting heavily against the odds if you're hoping for that to happen.

Pleading financial necessity would be a mistake. Not to be cold, but no one cares. You'll only hurt yourself and look like an excuse-maker if you bring it up. Most of us face similar choices in LS.

The hard truth is this: You have a viable chance at a job with a Michigan firm if you do well at Michigan and you spend 1L summer in Michigan doing something that is attractive to employers. If you opt not to do that, you're making a conscious and fully informed choice with a probable downside.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:05 am

I am a 2L who has a couple of Callbacks at the large firms in Indy. I would love to land a SA spot there and hopefully work as an associate there. I was hoping you might elaborate on your satisfaction of compensation in a mid-sized midwestern city. People always throw out there that after considering cost of living, BigCity BigLaw money is not all that much better than MidLaw MidCity money. I am not trying to pry into specific numbers but are there opportunities for substantial raises or bonuses ($5k-10K). From the outside looking in, it seems like BigLaw has substantial lockstep raises. It seems like Mid-City raises are about $2-$4K a year.

Again, I am not trying to pry into your numbers but there is a lot more data regarding bonuses and raises for more traditional BigLaw firms than there is on the types of firms in the Indys, Detroits, and Clevelands of the Midwest.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:31 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am a 2L who has a couple of Callbacks at the large firms in Indy. I would love to land a SA spot there and hopefully work as an associate there. I was hoping you might elaborate on your satisfaction of compensation in a mid-sized midwestern city. People always throw out there that after considering cost of living, BigCity BigLaw money is not all that much better than MidLaw MidCity money. I am not trying to pry into specific numbers but are there opportunities for substantial raises or bonuses ($5k-10K). From the outside looking in, it seems like BigLaw has substantial lockstep raises. It seems like Mid-City raises are about $2-$4K a year.

Again, I am not trying to pry into your numbers but there is a lot more data regarding bonuses and raises for more traditional BigLaw firms than there is on the types of firms in the Indys, Detroits, and Clevelands of the Midwest.


Every firm is different. My firm is lock step for a few years and then a combination of lockstep minimum, plus larger raises and bonuses based on merit. There is obviously no question that the salary/bonus basis is below NY/Chicago, and that carries through the whole salary structure. The cost of living someone offsets that difference for associates in places like Cleveland/Columbus/Indy.

Two other factors to consider are your chances of making junior/salary partner and the work you will receive. The majority of associates at my firm make junior partner. This comes with a nice bump in salary/bonus. The position also comes with additional job security. A much lower percentage of associates make partner in NY/Chicago. So you may make more money for 4-7 years, only to find yourself unemployed. The other consideration is the level of work you will receive. On the transactional end, a NY/Chicago associate never sees the full deal for years - he/she masters one small part of the deal. A litigation associate often trudges through years of document review. A second-year associate at my firm is going to be defending deps, arguing motions in state court, writing first drafts of motions, etc. This makes you much more fulfilled, not to mention marketable.

In the end, it's a matter of personal taste, preference and budget. Money aside, the lifestyle in these smaller Midwest cities is incredibly different than the lifestyle in NY/Chicago. Some folks just want the lifestyle and the money is secondary.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:37 am

Hello OP, if you are still there, can you give a bit more info about the Top 3 firms in Grand Rapids? I'm thinking Warner, Varnum, etc. How's the legal economy on that side doing? Do you know if they give offers to pretty much all their SA's? I checked NALP and it seems like the past year they gave out a lot of offers, but I can't find info beyond that with the new NALP directory.

Thanks!

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 19, 2012 11:44 am

I can't give you an informed answer on the economy on the west side of the state - just haven't had much contact with folks from over there lately. Business is good in SE Michigan, and I presume it's similar over there, but that's just a guess. I don't have an informed view of the offers situation at those firms either. Sorry!

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 19, 2012 12:12 pm

how would the top michigan firms view a Michigan COA research attorney position after 3L year if you didn't 2L summer in a Michigan firm, but also did very well at a Michigan school and want to practice in Michigan after the COA position.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:17 pm

How does honigman compare to market paying firms in Chicago in the categories of exit options and prestige? Would you recommend going to honigman over a market paying Chicago firm (similar to KL Gates, DLA Piper, Greenberg Traurig, etc.)? My ultimate goal is to end up in Michigan.

How tough is it to lateral to one of the top 5 Michigan firms after spending a few years in Chicago?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Wed Sep 19, 2012 1:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:1. I would not group Wayne and MSU. It is considerably easier to get a Detroit firm job from Wayne than MSU.
OP


My most of my summer class originated from MSU - none from Wayne. Our firm certainly hires Wayne grads, but it is simply not true that it is "considerably" easier to get hired in Detroit as a Wayne grad. It happens all the time.

MSU is higher ranked, has a larger alum network in Michigan just due to sheer size, and is nationally known. Its not geographically isolated from Detroit either - it's an hour away. Students can drive to interviews. My firm prefers the best students it can get, period. MSU feeds Detroit law firms as well as Wayne.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:how would the top michigan firms view a Michigan COA research attorney position after 3L year if you didn't 2L summer in a Michigan firm, but also did very well at a Michigan school and want to practice in Michigan after the COA position.


The fact you're working in Michigan cancels out any concerns about the 2L summer IMO. But you'll be competing against federal clerks and Michigan supreme court clerks, both of which are going to be viewed more favorably for a variety of reasons. It's not impossible to get a firm job from your position, but you might also want to consider doing another year with the Michgian supreme court or a federal clerkship.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:How does honigman compare to market paying firms in Chicago in the categories of exit options and prestige? Would you recommend going to honigman over a market paying Chicago firm (similar to KL Gates, DLA Piper, Greenberg Traurig, etc.)? My ultimate goal is to end up in Michigan.

How tough is it to lateral to one of the top 5 Michigan firms after spending a few years in Chicago?


Honigman has a reputation as a bit of a meat grinder for associates, so in that respect it might be a little more like Chicago Biglaw than a lot of other largish Michigan firms. It pays top dollar in the market.

If you want to end up in Michigan, why go to Chicago? That might help me answer your question.

In general, if you really want to build a firm law career in Michigan, you're making a mistake going to Chicago. At some point, a successful firm law career means you have to bring in your own clients or become invaluably connected to an existing client. Both of these things are about building relationships. The longer you take to get into the market, the less time you have to build relationships.

So if you have a sincere desire to try and make equity partner some day, you should just start in Michigan.

If you're taking an approach of, "well, I'm pretty sure my skills will get me to junior partner, and I'll just ride that bus as far as it goes and hope for the best," then it may not matter where you start.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:10 am

NotMyRealName09 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:1. I would not group Wayne and MSU. It is considerably easier to get a Detroit firm job from Wayne than MSU.
OP


My most of my summer class originated from MSU - none from Wayne. Our firm certainly hires Wayne grads, but it is simply not true that it is "considerably" easier to get hired in Detroit as a Wayne grad. It happens all the time.

MSU is higher ranked, has a larger alum network in Michigan just due to sheer size, and is nationally known. Its not geographically isolated from Detroit either - it's an hour away. Students can drive to interviews. My firm prefers the best students it can get, period. MSU feeds Detroit law firms as well as Wayne.


Hard data from firm websites tells the story quite clearly - it's considerably easier to get a Detroit firm job from Wayne than MSU.

Miller Canfield -- 15 associates from Wayne Law, 6 from Michigan State
Honigman -- 8 associates from Wayne Law, 0 from Michigan State
Dykema -- 7 associates from Wayne Law, 3 from Michigan State, none in the Detroit office.
Butzel -- 2 associates from Wayne Law, 2 from Michigan State, none in the Detroit office.
Bodman -- 10 associates from Wayne Law, 7 from Michigan State.

Overall numbers from top Detroit-based firms: 42 associates from Wayne Law, 18 from Michigan State.

I skipped Dickinson because their search function didn't allow you to search by law school.

OP

PS: It's also misleading to suggest it's an hour drive from East Lansing to Detroit. Google maps puts it at 1:35, and anyone who has driven it regularly during work hours knows it's usually 2 hours each way.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:25 am

I have a clerkship offer for 2014 in ED Mich. I summered this year in NY BigLaw. Will any Detroit firm look at me for a year knowing that I'll be gone for a year. I intend to return post-clerkship, but otherwise have no Michigan ties.




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