Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:How's the financial health of the Michigan firms? Anyone in trouble in general that if I was given an offer, I should be concerned about deferral or no-offers?


I would be very, very careful about accepting an offer at Butzel right now. They're are down something like 75+ lawyers over the past few years and have non-offered their summers at least once in the past few years. That's a big exodus.

The rest of the market seems solid. Dickinson, Clark Hill and Bodman all appeared to have offered their entire summer classes and to be regularly advertising for laterals, which certainly speaks to good financial health. The previous poster's comments about how people came through the 2008 downturn is very accurate IMO.

As I said above, right now the business climate is surprisingly solid. Obviously there's some uncertainty with the current economic indicators, but nothing I'd call a big red flag.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:How would a top 5 Michigan Firm view someone from Northeast Ohio that goes to UofM? I know that these firms generally want associates that lived in Michigan prior to school, but, I grew up relatively close by and am close to family, and I've become fond of the area. Would I be able to sell this as a "tie"?


It's obviously a sliding scale. You'll be better regarded than someone from California who goes to Michigan, but probably not as "local" as someone from Grosse Pointe going to Wayne. It's a close enough tie that I'd say you're probably OK if you interview well and have the kind of profile a firm is looking for.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:WSU 2L here.

Another question/thought: I'm curious how serious of a look your (or other big firms you've heard of) are taking at WSU 2Ls... I've heard some big game coming from some firms (namely Honigman, which is "re-emphasizing" Wayne this year), but will wait until I see actual summer offers before I buy too much into the hype. Firms that have hired from Wayne recently I'll actually buy, but I'm curious if there is anything to actually back up what I've been hearing.

The OCI list is decent, every major firm in Michigan is coming (though our OCI just started today). But it doesn't do us any good if they don't hire anyone from our school.


I'm a lower-level associate at a large Detroit law firm without any say in hiring, but I can say this. With the glut of law students and the dearth of legal jobs, it has become a buyer's market for law firms. The entire point of OCI is to hire the best student you can find. And when NY and DC jobs aren't materializing, you get T1 (and T14) students with roots in Michigan realizing that 100k in Michigan and advancement potential is better than contract work in NY (cost of living in Michigan is relatively low, a not insignificant lifestyle factor). So now you have UofM students who actually won't be running off to NY, and you want to hire that student so next year you can tell more UofM students that your firm hires UofM students. My firm has been able to recruit from higher ranked law schools of late for this very reason.


I'd say this is very accurate in my experience. We're seeing very, very good out of state t14 candidates with Michigan ties. Why? Because this market is more stable than many and has very high quality of life with low cost of living.

OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:57 am

What's the word on Foster, Swift, Collins & Smith? Miller Johnson?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 7:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:What's the word on Foster, Swift, Collins & Smith? Miller Johnson?

No info/connections at either of those firms. Sorry. OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:02 am

Anonymous User wrote:
gemma232 wrote:Do any of the big Michigan firms take on 3Ls for summer associates? How strong do your ties to Michigan have to be? I have family in both Milwaukee and in Indianapolis and am casting my net wide across the midwest (been all over Michigan, really like it there, just never lived there per se or have family there).


You won't get a serious look, because - especially if interviewing with Detroit-based firms - they know nobody moves to the Detroit area without established ties. I'm not trying to by cynical, but you won't get a second look, probably. If you aren't from Michigan, you are leaving Michigan the second another offer pops up somewhere else, or if the economy generally improves.


My firm will hire a 3L from time to time. If you don't live here or have family here, we'd be highly unlikely to look at you. OP

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How's the financial health of the Michigan firms? Anyone in trouble in general that if I was given an offer, I should be concerned about deferral or no-offers?


I would be very, very careful about accepting an offer at Butzel right now. They're are down something like 75+ lawyers over the past few years and have non-offered their summers at least once in the past few years. That's a big exodus.

The rest of the market seems solid. Dickinson, Clark Hill and Bodman all appeared to have offered their entire summer classes and to be regularly advertising for laterals, which certainly speaks to good financial health. The previous poster's comments about how people came through the 2008 downturn is very accurate IMO.

As I said above, right now the business climate is surprisingly solid. Obviously there's some uncertainty with the current economic indicators, but nothing I'd call a big red flag.

OP


I believe Miller Canfield also offered their entire summer class. Might be wrong, though.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby chem » Tue Aug 30, 2011 8:52 am

.
editted for stupid question
Last edited by chem on Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:32 am

So your a 0L asking what the Michigan Law market is going to be like in 3 years?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby UML » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:40 am

University of Michigan student here.

What can I do to increase my chances of getting a 1L SA position in Detroit?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:51 am

UML wrote:University of Michigan student here.

What can I do to increase my chances of getting a 1L SA position in Detroit?


Unless you qualify for the Wolverine Bar Association summer clerkship program, you have virtually no chance of getting a 1L SA position (in which case I'd recommend you try to intern in federal court, which is looked upon very positively by firms). OP

Here's the best info I could find on the Wolverine Bar program

--LinkRemoved--

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:55 am

Anonymous User wrote:
UML wrote:University of Michigan student here.

What can I do to increase my chances of getting a 1L SA position in Detroit?


Unless you qualify for the Wolverine Bar Association summer clerkship program, you have virtually no chance of getting a 1L SA position (in which case I'd recommend you try to intern in federal court, which is looked upon very positively by firms). OP

Here's the best info I could find on the Wolverine Bar program

--LinkRemoved--


Seconded. Get a federal court internship. They courts are pretty generous, taking in a fair number of students, and, depending on the judge, you might be surprised that they aren't too picky grades-wise. Awesome experience to see justice from behind the chambers door. Do it.

But generally Detroit firms don't do 1L summers.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:to the associates:

What are the callback- offer ratios like at the biglaw firms in Detroit?


Some firms only hire as many summers as they have room for, meaning it's your job to lose. It depends a lot of firm culture.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 10:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:to the associates:

What are the callback- offer ratios like at the biglaw firms in Detroit?


Some firms only hire as many summers as they have room for, meaning it's your job to lose. It depends a lot of firm culture.


I think this question really meant "How many people who get callbacks through OCI actually get offered a summer position after their callback interview." At least that's how I read it. OP.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 1:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:to the associates:

What are the callback- offer ratios like at the biglaw firms in Detroit?


Some firms only hire as many summers as they have room for, meaning it's your job to lose. It depends a lot of firm culture.


I think this question really meant "How many people who get callbacks through OCI actually get offered a summer position after their callback interview." At least that's how I read it. OP.

You're right. As to that ratio, I couldn't tell you.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
gemma232 wrote:Do any of the big Michigan firms take on 3Ls for summer associates? How strong do your ties to Michigan have to be? I have family in both Milwaukee and in Indianapolis and am casting my net wide across the midwest (been all over Michigan, really like it there, just never lived there per se or have family there).


You won't get a serious look, because - especially if interviewing with Detroit-based firms - they know nobody moves to the Detroit area without established ties. I'm not trying to by cynical, but you won't get a second look, probably. If you aren't from Michigan, you are leaving Michigan the second another offer pops up somewhere else, or if the economy generally improves.


My firm will hire a 3L from time to time. If you don't live here or have family here, we'd be highly unlikely to look at you. OP


How close to Detroit would you say ties have to be to be sufficient? I'm from Cleveland and interested in Detroit. It's only a 3 hr drive and the Detroit firms are doing resume collects at my school. I'd be just as happy in Detroit as Cleveland, but are those resume collects really just for Michigan kids who wandered south?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:15 pm

I summered at a Cleveland firm a couple years ago and was from Detroit and let me tell you.... they treated me like I was from a different country... I don't think they put a lot of weight on the closeness of the two cities. Most of my co workers have never even been to Detroit. They talked about what HS they went to and all of them seemed to have went to St. Ignatius in Cleveland or something....

Id say just about everyone in the Cleveland market has some kind of ties to Cleveland. Most grew up in the area. The other small minority moved back because of their wife.

I think it might be the same way in Detroit.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Aug 30, 2011 6:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How close to Detroit would you say ties have to be to be sufficient? I'm from Cleveland and interested in Detroit. It's only a 3 hr drive and the Detroit firms are doing resume collects at my school. I'd be just as happy in Detroit as Cleveland, but are those resume collects really just for Michigan kids who wandered south?


They're really just for Michigan students who have wandered south (and note that I don't say kids, because K-to-JD is probably a negative). The people at my firm who graduated from Ohio law schools all had pre-existing Michigan ties. The people I know at other Michigan firms who went to Ohio law schools all had pre-existing Michigan ties or a person at the firm who went to bat for them. The firms have so many good applicants with Michigan ties that there's no need to take a chance on someone who might lateral out because they don't have any real local connections.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 01, 2012 12:56 am

don't know if the op is still around....
What are the lateral opportunities to other markets ie NY/CA/IL from a top 5 Michigan firm?
How is the quality of the work compared to firms in major cities ie Chicago, NYC, LA?

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Feb 01, 2012 1:42 am

Out of curiosity, do you know what opportunities there are in the Detroit market for environmental law? I grew up in Metro-Detroit, have extensive family here, and worked for General Motors at one point, so I have fairly strong ties. Just not sure what kind of work there is for my concentration.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Feb 02, 2012 9:43 am

.

Edit: Removed for redundant question

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Out of curiosity, do you know what opportunities there are in the Detroit market for environmental law? I grew up in Metro-Detroit, have extensive family here, and worked for General Motors at one point, so I have fairly strong ties. Just not sure what kind of work there is for my concentration.


Not OP, but I am an associate at a large Detroit firm. We have an environmental law group in our firm, but as I understand it, it is more geared to governmental regulations and lobbying. Correct me if I am wrong, but "environmental law" is sort of a hybrid specialty, with aspects of government relations and litigation. We may handle regulatory disputes and the occassional criminal action brought against an alleged polluter, or may deal with real estate transactions involving environmental issues. I guess I'm trying to say that the large Detroit firms do handle environmental issues - the manufacturing companies inevitably have environmental issues - but that work is more generally a subset of litigation. If you want to focus on it, great, but that depends on the firm having clients who need help in that field. Maybe other firms have specialized groups, but here we handle environmental issues on an as-needed basis.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
I have a callback coming with one of the 5 listed firms above. Are the callback- offer rates pretty high?


I can only speak for my own firm and here, it for us I would say the offer rate is not high. Rather than having one or two people make the call at OCI, we seem to use OCI as an initial screen and bring a lot of people in, where they are then exposed to multiple people. We roll offers, though, and in theory if we loved the first 5-7 people who come in the door, they could all get offers.

OP


Not OP, and that quote is aged, but I wonder if we work at the same firm......sounds like my firm's style, although it could be Detroit firm style.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:32 pm

deleted as redundant, sorry.

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Re: Associate at top 5 Michigan firm taking questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Feb 03, 2012 2:15 pm

I'm a 1L at the University of Michigan. My wife and I are not from Michigan, but we fell in love Ann Arbor and want to say here after graduation: live in Ann Arbor, commute to Detroit. What's your advice re: 1L SAs in Detroit this summer? How should an out-of-state-er approach the hunt?




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