V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:49 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:Then you should go do that. Why should I give you a spot that could have gone to someone who actually wants it?

Well, I have various reasons for wanting to do big law: (1) most good government jobs do not go to straight out grads but instead laterals from firms, (2) the training at firms seems to be superior to PI jobs and I think building a solid foundation for a career would be helpful and important, (3) I have $200k in debt to retire and big law makes that possible much quicker. I'm guessing none of these reasons really matter to an interviewer, but I don't plan on being a flight risk. I don't want them to sink a lot of costs into me and have me run off 2 years in. I'll be fine staying the normal 4-5 years. It's just that my end career goal would be a job in a government agency like the DOJ or USAO and they rarely hire fresh grads.

Am I looking to get boned at OCI?

You're focusing too much on your own motives and goals. You need to be thinking about this from the employer's perspective. Even considering that you expect to stay 5 years, say, your justification above does not make it sound like you're going to be happy and put in a lot of good honest work over that time. Lots of people go into firms wanting to transition to the government, so you're not alone in that regard, but you need to focus more on why you want to work at the firm and what you'll bring to the table -- pick a practice area that's related to the government agency you hope to go to, talk about how you want to get experience in Firm X's excellent Y and Z Practice; get genuinely enthused about it and you don't have to go in feeling like you're hiding some big secret from the firm with the fact that you think you're gonna want to bail in 5 years (you and most of everyone else, they know already).

Thanks for this helpful answer.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:09 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
No. This board greatly exaggerates the importance/relevance of clothes in this process. Suits that don't make people do a double take when they look at you will be fine, charcoal & navy are just the traditional/safe choices but pin stripes (within reason) are fine as are most slight variations.

Yeah, I am fairly certain in the real world 95% of people don't give two shits about how 95% of other people are dressed. Working in a biglaw office is not exactly like stepping into a GQ photo spread.[/quote]

agreed. just look "normal."

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:09 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:Then you should go do that. Why should I give you a spot that could have gone to someone who actually wants it?

Well, I have various reasons for wanting to do big law: (1) most good government jobs do not go to straight out grads but instead laterals from firms, (2) the training at firms seems to be superior to PI jobs and I think building a solid foundation for a career would be helpful and important, (3) I have $200k in debt to retire and big law makes that possible much quicker. I'm guessing none of these reasons really matter to an interviewer, but I don't plan on being a flight risk. I don't want them to sink a lot of costs into me and have me run off 2 years in. I'll be fine staying the normal 4-5 years. It's just that my end career goal would be a job in a government agency like the DOJ or USAO and they rarely hire fresh grads.

Am I looking to get boned at OCI?

You're focusing too much on your own motives and goals. You need to be thinking about this from the employer's perspective. Even considering that you expect to stay 5 years, say, your justification above does not make it sound like you're going to be happy and put in a lot of good honest work over that time. Lots of people go into firms wanting to transition to the government, so you're not alone in that regard, but you need to focus more on why you want to work at the firm and what you'll bring to the table -- pick a practice area that's related to the government agency you hope to go to, talk about how you want to get experience in Firm X's excellent Y and Z Practice; get genuinely enthused about it and you don't have to go in feeling like you're hiding some big secret from the firm with the fact that you think you're gonna want to bail in 5 years (you and most of everyone else, they know already).


agreed. this is good advice.

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jun 07, 2012 11:10 am

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:happens all the time.


If the best I can land is, e.g., DLA Piper in Phoenix, is there anything in particular I can do to get myself into a big firm in a big city? Or do I just keep my head down, do good work, and hope for the best?

Thanks for answering questions.


why would you really want to? if you're happy in phoenix that sounds kinda awesome. if you don't have any ties to a big city i don't think there's any reason to go just to go

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:41 pm

Do you just attend OCI or do you also recruit at [northeast] legal job fairs? I have not been to a job fair. . .any advice for an upcoming 2L.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:52 pm

itbdvorm wrote:why would you really want to? if you're happy in phoenix that sounds kinda awesome. if you don't have any ties to a big city i don't think there's any reason to go just to go



Well, fair point. I'm more curious about if I could make it happen, and how. There are some nice things about being one of a handful of former COA clerks in the state, as opposed to being one of a handful of former COA clerks on a floor.

That said, I really do enjoy NY, SF, DC, LA, and Chicago. I also think there are practice areas and cases that only top firms in top cities get. When the biggest companies in my city are in trouble, they call major NYC firms, not locals. Big securities and antitrust cases don't usually involve small-town defense attorneys.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:28 pm

How about undergrad grades + institution? How about people who were extreme splitters going into law school and have 99 %tile + LSATs at a T20-30ish school?

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby nonprofit-prophet » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How about undergrad grades + institution? How about people who were extreme splitters going into law school and have 99 %tile + LSATs at a T20-30ish school?


I've had quite a few big law interviews during 1L and I have never been asked about my LSAT score. I would assume it's even less likely to come up During OCI, because you have an extra semester of grades to show them. Even more reason to ignore LSAT since they have a fuller picture of what you are capable of.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do you just attend OCI or do you also recruit at [northeast] legal job fairs? I have not been to a job fair. . .any advice for an upcoming 2L.


I don't personally. We may attend certain targeted job fairs but not sure.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:why would you really want to? if you're happy in phoenix that sounds kinda awesome. if you don't have any ties to a big city i don't think there's any reason to go just to go



Well, fair point. I'm more curious about if I could make it happen, and how. There are some nice things about being one of a handful of former COA clerks in the state, as opposed to being one of a handful of former COA clerks on a floor.

That said, I really do enjoy NY, SF, DC, LA, and Chicago. I also think there are practice areas and cases that only top firms in top cities get. When the biggest companies in my city are in trouble, they call major NYC firms, not locals. Big securities and antitrust cases don't usually involve small-town defense attorneys.


No, they hire major attorneys. Stephen Susman, for example, gets hired whether he's in NY, Houston, or wherever. If you're going to be one of those serious superstars they will find you, and where you are won't matter. If you're not, they won't.

In answer to your question - there's always a chance. But I honestly think it's probably silly (in part because if you're that much of a superstar, you'll either be rocking where you are so why leave or be able to transfer to their NY office).

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jun 07, 2012 1:58 pm

nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How about undergrad grades + institution? How about people who were extreme splitters going into law school and have 99 %tile + LSATs at a T20-30ish school?


I've had quite a few big law interviews during 1L and I have never been asked about my LSAT score. I would assume it's even less likely to come up During OCI, because you have an extra semester of grades to show them. Even more reason to ignore LSAT since they have a fuller picture of what you are capable of.


I think people who put their LSAT scores on their resume are assholes.

Everyone's got reasons for being where they are. "Smart but lazy" is not the sales pitch I'm looking for. Your first year grades will tell me much more about you than your LSAT score.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 07, 2012 2:19 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How about undergrad grades + institution? How about people who were extreme splitters going into law school and have 99 %tile + LSATs at a T20-30ish school?


I've had quite a few big law interviews during 1L and I have never been asked about my LSAT score. I would assume it's even less likely to come up During OCI, because you have an extra semester of grades to show them. Even more reason to ignore LSAT since they have a fuller picture of what you are capable of.


I think people who put their LSAT scores on their resume are assholes.

Everyone's got reasons for being where they are. "Smart but lazy" is not the sales pitch I'm looking for. Your first year grades will tell me much more about you than your LSAT score.


What about undergrad prestige? I don't know if it's just me, but I see very few State Us listed in attorney bios on top firms sites.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 07, 2012 8:59 pm

How much stock do you put in applicants with several CALI awards (top grade in class)?

Do you even care about this, or do you just look at the GPA?

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
nonprofit-prophet wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How about undergrad grades + institution? How about people who were extreme splitters going into law school and have 99 %tile + LSATs at a T20-30ish school?


I've had quite a few big law interviews during 1L and I have never been asked about my LSAT score. I would assume it's even less likely to come up During OCI, because you have an extra semester of grades to show them. Even more reason to ignore LSAT since they have a fuller picture of what you are capable of.


I think people who put their LSAT scores on their resume are assholes.

Everyone's got reasons for being where they are. "Smart but lazy" is not the sales pitch I'm looking for. Your first year grades will tell me much more about you than your LSAT score.


What about undergrad prestige? I don't know if it's just me, but I see very few State Us listed in attorney bios on top firms sites.


it matters. but not that much.

http://www.wlrk.com/Page.cfm/Thread/Att ... ichael%20J.
http://www.cravath.com/wearnhardt/
http://www.cravath.com/jzavaglia/

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jun 08, 2012 11:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:How much stock do you put in applicants with several CALI awards (top grade in class)?

Do you even care about this, or do you just look at the GPA?


means something...though, admittedly, i'm not sure how many of the schools we recruit from have those?

but certainly if several of those it's better than just several good grades

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 12:25 pm

What about an undergrad ranked 75+ and no Latin honors. Even if great Law grades, handicap for V15? Is there a "cutoff," as with law grades?

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What about an undergrad ranked 75+ and no Latin honors. Even if great Law grades, handicap for V15? Is there a "cutoff," as with law grades?


no.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:31 pm

I have two years full time work experience as a back office business analyst at a Fortune 100 company (household brand). Provided I meet your gpa cuttoffs from my CCN school and can intelligently talk about my role/project contributions, would this help at all? I know it's likely won't help as much as a top job out of UG (Mck, Goldman, etc.) but just curious if there is a boost at all. Thanks for your time!

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 2:43 pm

Is NYC going to 180 before the end of the decade?

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have two years full time work experience as a back office business analyst at a Fortune 100 company (household brand). Provided I meet your gpa cuttoffs from my CCN school and can intelligently talk about my role/project contributions, would this help at all? I know it's likely won't help as much as a top job out of UG (Mck, Goldman, etc.) but just curious if there is a boost at all. Thanks for your time!


Couldn't hurt

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jun 08, 2012 4:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is NYC going to 180 before the end of the decade?


hope so

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 08, 2012 9:27 pm

Thank you so much for answering our questions. Would love to get your insights on my situation.

Briefly about me: I am a 32 year old rising 3L. I transferred from at T2 to a T20. My grades at T20 are above the cutoff for top 10%. I have 8 years work experience prior to law school.

Briefly about my summer: Following the advice of my Alumni mentor, I decided to spend the summer with my 85 year old father who lives abroad. I am utilizing the time by studying my third language.

Briefly about my issue: I am rather light on legal work experience. I was a RA the previous summer, and I didn't intern during the year. I am planning to seek internships for my entire 3L year.

My question: Does my decision foreclose any chances I have at 3L OCI or being hired at a big law firm?

Thank you again for taking the time.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Sat Jun 09, 2012 11:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for answering our questions. Would love to get your insights on my situation.

Briefly about me: I am a 32 year old rising 3L. I transferred from at T2 to a T20. My grades at T20 are above the cutoff for top 10%. I have 8 years work experience prior to law school.

Briefly about my summer: Following the advice of my Alumni mentor, I decided to spend the summer with my 85 year old father who lives abroad. I am utilizing the time by studying my third language.

Briefly about my issue: I am rather light on legal work experience. I was a RA the previous summer, and I didn't intern during the year. I am planning to seek internships for my entire 3L year.

My question: Does my decision foreclose any chances I have at 3L OCI or being hired at a big law firm?

Thank you again for taking the time.


Foreclose? No. But certainly hurts, and frankly a lot. Sounds like terrible advice to me. Why not try to get some sort of legal-related job, instead of what frankly sounds like spending the most important summer of your law school education hanging out with your dad and going to language classes.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:13 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thank you so much for answering our questions. Would love to get your insights on my situation.

Briefly about me: I am a 32 year old rising 3L. I transferred from at T2 to a T20. My grades at T20 are above the cutoff for top 10%. I have 8 years work experience prior to law school.

Briefly about my summer: Following the advice of my Alumni mentor, I decided to spend the summer with my 85 year old father who lives abroad. I am utilizing the time by studying my third language.

Briefly about my issue: I am rather light on legal work experience. I was a RA the previous summer, and I didn't intern during the year. I am planning to seek internships for my entire 3L year.

My question: Does my decision foreclose any chances I have at 3L OCI or being hired at a big law firm?

Thank you again for taking the time.


Foreclose? No. But certainly hurts, and frankly a lot. Sounds like terrible advice to me. Why not try to get some sort of legal-related job, instead of what frankly sounds like spending the most important summer of your law school education hanging out with your dad and going to language classes.


I appreciate your honest advice. Do you think I can stymie the damage (even overcome) the damage by volunteering for a legal position here? Thank you, again.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 09, 2012 12:16 pm

I'm a rising 2L working a summer internship at a fortune 100. I get to work on a variety of projects and will produce a writing sample (40 hrs/wk). A friend of a friend has a case going to a state's supreme court and wants me to moonlight for him: write one or two memos & parts of the brief (paid, btw).

Will taking on this second project help me for OCI? The work will be completely different from what I'm doing at the fortune 100.

I think I'll still have enough time to properly prepare for OCI, even with both of these jobs. Will a second job help me or not?




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