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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:06 pm
by Mce252
Is cocaine use prevalent at your firm?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:09 pm
by abacus
itbdvorm wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:You guys should keep this ridiculous bickering out of this helpful thread.


Hah. Agreed.

But - to answer the relatively reasonable question...

While I'm not positive exactly what our grade cuts are for YHS, I suspect it's a little above median. Whether "median" can get you a V5 firm or not I don't know - but the bigger issue for us (and many of our peers) is that even if everyone we met on campus was good enough, grade-wise, for us to callback, we're not going to give everyone a callback for a variety of reasons, including fit, capacity, etc.

So I'd say that if you don't have an H or two (or if you have an LP), you should really broaden your search a little bit. Same if you're not a good interview.

I'd also say that "V5 or bust" is not really the best way to go about the process, but I know that I'll be ignored on that front.


Thanks for answering questions. I am choosing between HLS and SLS and am wondering if a student at SLS has a better shot at employment with your firm (let's say NYC office) simply by virtue of attending a smaller school.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 1:10 pm
by Anonymous User
Thanks for answering questions.

If a law student is interested long-term in a PI career, but wants to work hard in a big firm for some years for the experience and then transition to nonprofit-government, are there particular firms you think are more amenable to that kind of path and less likely to red-flag a PI-background?

Thanks again.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 2:04 pm
by Anonymous User
How far does the public interest red flag extend? Stumping for Greenpeace or PETA is obvious, but does it apply to all non-profit or non-corporate fields?

For example, my pre-LS resume is multiple years of politics and then government relations for an association. If, then, for 1L summer, I intern with a major affordable housing development firm instead of something more corporate or legal research focused, would that be a red flag and put me at a disadvantage with your firm?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:27 pm
by itbdvorm
Mce252 wrote:Is cocaine use prevalent at your firm?


Not that I'm aware of.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:28 pm
by itbdvorm
abacus wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:You guys should keep this ridiculous bickering out of this helpful thread.


Hah. Agreed.

But - to answer the relatively reasonable question...

While I'm not positive exactly what our grade cuts are for YHS, I suspect it's a little above median. Whether "median" can get you a V5 firm or not I don't know - but the bigger issue for us (and many of our peers) is that even if everyone we met on campus was good enough, grade-wise, for us to callback, we're not going to give everyone a callback for a variety of reasons, including fit, capacity, etc.

So I'd say that if you don't have an H or two (or if you have an LP), you should really broaden your search a little bit. Same if you're not a good interview.

I'd also say that "V5 or bust" is not really the best way to go about the process, but I know that I'll be ignored on that front.


Thanks for answering questions. I am choosing between HLS and SLS and am wondering if a student at SLS has a better shot at employment with your firm (let's say NYC office) simply by virtue of attending a smaller school.


If you really want NY, you frankly might have a better shot because Stanford kids aiming for NY are rarer than Harvard kids. But assuming equal performance you're probably not so much better off either way

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:29 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for answering questions.

If a law student is interested long-term in a PI career, but wants to work hard in a big firm for some years for the experience and then transition to nonprofit-government, are there particular firms you think are more amenable to that kind of path and less likely to red-flag a PI-background?

Thanks again.


As long as you can sell the "work hard for a few years" piece I think there are plenty of places that'd work. You'd be surprised at how many people don't.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:31 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:How far does the public interest red flag extend? Stumping for Greenpeace or PETA is obvious, but does it apply to all non-profit or non-corporate fields?

For example, my pre-LS resume is multiple years of politics and then government relations for an association. If, then, for 1L summer, I intern with a major affordable housing development firm instead of something more corporate or legal research focused, would that be a red flag and put me at a disadvantage with your firm?


Not an insane red flag. Just not helping yourself necessarily. Sounds to me like someone who went to law school to prepare for a political career. If you're awesome and charming you can certainly overcome it, but I'd be prepared to talk about why you want to work at a firm...

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 4:42 pm
by Anonymous User
Can you comment on what a junior/midlevel corporate associate does on a day to day basis?

What skills or traits separate an average junior associate from a good to great junior?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:01 pm
by Anonymous User
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How far does the public interest red flag extend? Stumping for Greenpeace or PETA is obvious, but does it apply to all non-profit or non-corporate fields?

For example, my pre-LS resume is multiple years of politics and then government relations for an association. If, then, for 1L summer, I intern with a major affordable housing development firm instead of something more corporate or legal research focused, would that be a red flag and put me at a disadvantage with your firm?


Not an insane red flag. Just not helping yourself necessarily. Sounds to me like someone who went to law school to prepare for a political career. If you're awesome and charming you can certainly overcome it, but I'd be prepared to talk about why you want to work at a firm...

Thanks for the insight! TBH, law school was a choice in part because I was sick of politics and wanted out. Are there other things that I can do to demonstrate my shift in career choices or will it come down to the interview?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:09 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:Can you comment on what a junior/midlevel corporate associate does on a day to day basis?

What skills or traits separate an average junior associate from a good to great junior?


For your first question...not really. Everything changes so very often. But assume diligence, calls, reviewing documents, preparing ancillary documents and schedules, managing data room, etc.

For your second...anticipation and initative. Thinking about what people are going to want and need. Taking charge of things and taking on every possible matter that seems appropriate for you to do. That doesn't mean a reply to all saying what your client's position is (but it does mean a reply to all indicating that conference room 16F has been reserved and that clients and other side are added to security, and it does mean reviewing documents and ensuring that you understand what's in there and asking questions about things to an appropriate degree). Paying attention to the big picture and the little details.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:10 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How far does the public interest red flag extend? Stumping for Greenpeace or PETA is obvious, but does it apply to all non-profit or non-corporate fields?

For example, my pre-LS resume is multiple years of politics and then government relations for an association. If, then, for 1L summer, I intern with a major affordable housing development firm instead of something more corporate or legal research focused, would that be a red flag and put me at a disadvantage with your firm?


Not an insane red flag. Just not helping yourself necessarily. Sounds to me like someone who went to law school to prepare for a political career. If you're awesome and charming you can certainly overcome it, but I'd be prepared to talk about why you want to work at a firm...

Thanks for the insight! TBH, law school was a choice in part because I was sick of politics and wanted out. Are there other things that I can do to demonstrate my shift in career choices or will it come down to the interview?


Probably will come down to the interview. I guess if you don't make law review I'd tend towards corporate/business law journals rather than "law and butterflies" journals

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 5:21 pm
by Anonymous User
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can you comment on what a junior/midlevel corporate associate does on a day to day basis?

What skills or traits separate an average junior associate from a good to great junior?


For your first question...not really. Everything changes so very often. But assume diligence, calls, reviewing documents, preparing ancillary documents and schedules, managing data room, etc.

For your second...anticipation and initative. Thinking about what people are going to want and need. Taking charge of things and taking on every possible matter that seems appropriate for you to do. That doesn't mean a reply to all saying what your client's position is (but it does mean a reply to all indicating that conference room 16F has been reserved and that clients and other side are added to security, and it does mean reviewing documents and ensuring that you understand what's in there and asking questions about things to an appropriate degree). Paying attention to the big picture and the little details.


Thanks, this is great. In the same vein, what are some of the biggest mistakes you see juniors making? What are some of the things you wish you had known when you started?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:32 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Can you comment on what a junior/midlevel corporate associate does on a day to day basis?

What skills or traits separate an average junior associate from a good to great junior?


For your first question...not really. Everything changes so very often. But assume diligence, calls, reviewing documents, preparing ancillary documents and schedules, managing data room, etc.

For your second...anticipation and initative. Thinking about what people are going to want and need. Taking charge of things and taking on every possible matter that seems appropriate for you to do. That doesn't mean a reply to all saying what your client's position is (but it does mean a reply to all indicating that conference room 16F has been reserved and that clients and other side are added to security, and it does mean reviewing documents and ensuring that you understand what's in there and asking questions about things to an appropriate degree). Paying attention to the big picture and the little details.


Thanks, this is great. In the same vein, what are some of the biggest mistakes you see juniors making? What are some of the things you wish you had known when you started?


Biggest mistakes fall into the above vein. Not checking things. Not staying on top of things that are designated as your responsibility. Not stepping up to make sure things don't fall through the cracks.

As for wish I had known...hmm...wish I'd known I'd still be here this many years later??

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:51 pm
by peter2009
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do you also interview outside of OCI? Specifically, do you interview people looking to join the firm after a 1 or 2 year judicial clerkship?

I am currently a federal COA clerk looking to join a firm. However, my resume is pretty public-interesty. The pressures of the specific PI I was interested in, especially after my 2L summer internship and 3L jobs, got to be too much to bear. After seeing many people I worked with get deported, imprisoned for life, and even executed, I was having a hard time coping with that particular stress. I feel like, at this point, I couldn't do that work full-time and have it consume my life, but unfortunately I figured that out a little later in the game (too late to have a chance to summer with a firm). I know biglaw is stressful, but not such in a way that if you fail, a client could face such severe personal consequences (most of the time). I still enjoy litigation and its high-stakes aspect generally, though.

I've also become much more interested in a variety of civil matters that working at a firm entails through my experience as a clerk.

What would you think of me as a candidate for joining the firm after my clerkship? And is there any particular advice you could give me? Many thanks for your help.


Sure, I interview them as well. I think clerkship candidates - especially COA ones - are much more desirable and thus you shouldn't be as worried about your background. At your stage you can actually talk about substantive legal issues, what you hope to do at a law firm, what you're looking for in your career, etc. This gives you a pretty big leg up over most of the other candidates already.

At your level you are interviewing for fit, knowledge and openings rather than being basically just another cog...


At what point during the judicial clerkship does your firm begin interviewing people? Is this the same timeline as most firms?

Do you interview bankruptcy clerks?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:25 am
by itbdvorm
peter2009 wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do you also interview outside of OCI? Specifically, do you interview people looking to join the firm after a 1 or 2 year judicial clerkship?

I am currently a federal COA clerk looking to join a firm. However, my resume is pretty public-interesty. The pressures of the specific PI I was interested in, especially after my 2L summer internship and 3L jobs, got to be too much to bear. After seeing many people I worked with get deported, imprisoned for life, and even executed, I was having a hard time coping with that particular stress. I feel like, at this point, I couldn't do that work full-time and have it consume my life, but unfortunately I figured that out a little later in the game (too late to have a chance to summer with a firm). I know biglaw is stressful, but not such in a way that if you fail, a client could face such severe personal consequences (most of the time). I still enjoy litigation and its high-stakes aspect generally, though.

I've also become much more interested in a variety of civil matters that working at a firm entails through my experience as a clerk.

What would you think of me as a candidate for joining the firm after my clerkship? And is there any particular advice you could give me? Many thanks for your help.


Sure, I interview them as well. I think clerkship candidates - especially COA ones - are much more desirable and thus you shouldn't be as worried about your background. At your stage you can actually talk about substantive legal issues, what you hope to do at a law firm, what you're looking for in your career, etc. This gives you a pretty big leg up over most of the other candidates already.

At your level you are interviewing for fit, knowledge and openings rather than being basically just another cog...


At what point during the judicial clerkship does your firm begin interviewing people? Is this the same timeline as most firms?

Do you interview bankruptcy clerks?


Honestly not sure - I think it's towards the end but judge dependant. Presumably same timeline. I believe we do interview bankruptcy clerks but don't know definitely.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 9:37 am
by Anonymous User
Im working as a 1L this summer at a V100 - They don't hire 1Ls for their summer program, but they're letting me work there less than full time, and I'll be given the same assignments as the 2Ls and will be participating in all the SA events.

1. How would I put this on my resume - "Law Clerk" or "Intern" or something else
2. Would I have to disclose that it's not full time? If so will this really be looked down upon at OCI
3. If it was just listed as summer law clerk or something would this raise questions?

TYIA

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 10:39 am
by Anonymous User
How do firms look at 1L summer internships? I have somewhat of an odd situation. I'm an out-of-state student in a somewhat insular market, and my grades put me in the top 5% (at a lower T-14). I figured I would get a 1L SA (ended up getting a super shortened summer program, not enough to fill a whole-or half-summer, being out of state hurt), so I ended up applying to Judges really late. The only judge that has given me an interview is a county criminal court that only handles misdemeanors. I also have an offer to work for free for a solo practitioner (seems to be very successful) in a random part of the state, but he has promised a lot substantive work.

I guess my question is: will firms at OCI raise an eyebrow at either of these jobs when compared to my grades? Will they wonder if something is wrong with me for not getting something better with my grades? Is one option better than the other?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:33 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:Im working as a 1L this summer at a V100 - They don't hire 1Ls for their summer program, but they're letting me work there less than full time, and I'll be given the same assignments as the 2Ls and will be participating in all the SA events.

1. How would I put this on my resume - "Law Clerk" or "Intern" or something else
2. Would I have to disclose that it's not full time? If so will this really be looked down upon at OCI
3. If it was just listed as summer law clerk or something would this raise questions?

TYIA


I think Summer Clerk is probably fine (assuming you're being paid; if not I'd put intern). If they ask about it (they will), you can say they don't normally hire 1Ls but you got a position doing X for X amount of time. Reading that I'd assume it was a "real" summer position generally - which it sounds like it almost is

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:34 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:How do firms look at 1L summer internships? I have somewhat of an odd situation. I'm an out-of-state student in a somewhat insular market, and my grades put me in the top 5% (at a lower T-14). I figured I would get a 1L SA (ended up getting a super shortened summer program, not enough to fill a whole-or half-summer, being out of state hurt), so I ended up applying to Judges really late. The only judge that has given me an interview is a county criminal court that only handles misdemeanors. I also have an offer to work for free for a solo practitioner (seems to be very successful) in a random part of the state, but he has promised a lot substantive work.

I guess my question is: will firms at OCI raise an eyebrow at either of these jobs when compared to my grades? Will they wonder if something is wrong with me for not getting something better with my grades? Is one option better than the other?


Nah, not really. The 1L summer's a free-for-all. An awesome job can help, but a random/weird one won't necessarily hurt.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 12:45 pm
by Anonymous User
Presuming that your firm was looking to hire 3Ls at all, how would you view someone who took a SCOTUS advocacy position with the government instead of a SA for 2L summer, presuming that he/she otherwise met your guidelines (school, class rank, etc.)?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:32 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:Presuming that your firm was looking to hire 3Ls at all, how would you view someone who took a SCOTUS advocacy position with the government instead of a SA for 2L summer, presuming that he/she otherwise met your guidelines (school, class rank, etc.)?


Interesting. It's not sort of an "active red flag" since it sounds like an impressive/prestigious position...but I'd want to know why

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 1:40 pm
by TheZoid
hey itb...thanks for all your input. I'm curious as to what your hours are like on a typical day. I assume it's hectic at times and a little slower other times, given that you're in corporate.

Also, has your firm given you any indication on partnership prospects? What are your goals for the longer term? Best of luck to you, and thanks again.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 2:07 pm
by Anonymous User
What are the typical exit options that a corporate attorney from your firms sees as a midlevel associate? How does that change as you get more senior? How often do you get recruiter calls?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2012 3:46 pm
by itbdvorm
TheZoid wrote:hey itb...thanks for all your input. I'm curious as to what your hours are like on a typical day. I assume it's hectic at times and a little slower other times, given that you're in corporate.

Also, has your firm given you any indication on partnership prospects? What are your goals for the longer term? Best of luck to you, and thanks again.


really, no such thing as a typical day. in a slow patch, i could bill <5 hrs (though i'm still here usually, emailing, non-billable stuff, catching up on things). in a crazy stretch, could be 90-100 hr weeks (not many, but had them. painful.)

i've had some positive indications, but you never know for sure (especially these days). i'm hopefully on track and my current goal is a run for the end zone. longer term, who knows?