V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 325767
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 09, 2017 2:42 pm

What do you think about a career in corporate law versus investment banking? Pros/cons, assuming a student is already in law school? Is there anything about being a lawyer that keeps you interested in the legal aspect of the transaction?

Sorry if this question has already been asked, but I didn't find a post from you addressing it. Thank you.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325767
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue May 09, 2017 8:46 pm

As an associate, did you ever receive less than perfect reviews? I'm trying to interpret a scenario where a X (less than ten) partners gave numerical evaluations (e.g., 1-5) and a small number did not give the maximum rating. I am not unhappy with my evaluation overall, but I am interested in reputation, and can imagine a world in which even a small number of people thinking you're "pretty good" instead of "great" could have a negative impact on career development.

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Wed May 10, 2017 3:17 pm

stannis wrote:Since making partner, has your social life changed? Do you spend more time with partners outside of the office and less with associates?


Probably, but that has a decent amount to do with age anyway.

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Wed May 10, 2017 3:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What do you think about a career in corporate law versus investment banking? Pros/cons, assuming a student is already in law school? Is there anything about being a lawyer that keeps you interested in the legal aspect of the transaction?

Sorry if this question has already been asked, but I didn't find a post from you addressing it. Thank you.


I am sure there are lots of pros and cons, though a little hard to tell as I have only lived one of the two lives.

I suspect parts of each are better and worse at times. I think being a junior analyst is probably the worst position of all, but being an associate at a bank is probably better on the margins than being a junior associate at a firm. Still, excel/powerpoint vs. word.

The best thing about being an investment banker is there's a clear path from there into PE, where you do get to be the "client" - making the calls, leading the deals, etc. Much harder to make that shift as a lawyer.

Still, at the senior levels it starts to level out a bit. I have much more job security and stability of income than do folks in investment banking right now. I locked in a huge mortgage a few years back after making partner and the bank was more than happy to lend me a ton based upon my projected stable future cash flows. Meanwhile, investment bankers will need to put much more down / show much more in the bank. Now they may be able to do so based upon a huge bonus, but they also may get stonewalled.

Banking is not the same MODELZ AND BOTTLEZ place it was fifteen years ago. But still a great gig for some people. I could see a path in my future one day that leads over to the investment banking side (maybe) - or not.

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Wed May 10, 2017 3:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:As an associate, did you ever receive less than perfect reviews? I'm trying to interpret a scenario where a X (less than ten) partners gave numerical evaluations (e.g., 1-5) and a small number did not give the maximum rating. I am not unhappy with my evaluation overall, but I am interested in reputation, and can imagine a world in which even a small number of people thinking you're "pretty good" instead of "great" could have a negative impact on career development.


Yes, but not in my final few years. From a long-term career and promotion standpoint, much more important that a small circle thinks you're A+ material than a large circle thinks you're A material.

qxfr

New
Posts: 16
Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:51 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby qxfr » Fri May 12, 2017 11:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there anything you would recommend to a student preparing for corporate practice? For example, are there any books or law school courses you thought you were helpful? Not committed to any specific practice area within transactional work yet. I am 2L/rising 3L, and I will be at a firm this summer.

Thank you.

Not my thread but I would recommend https://www.amazon.com/Working-Contract ... 1402410603. I've also got a copy of https://www.amazon.com/Drafting-Corpora ... 140240882X which I think is fairly similar but maybe slightly (but not much) more technical. Neither of these books will give you much that you would not pick up within the first 6 months of transactional practice, but if you read it during your summer (I wish I had) it would probably give you a bit of a leg up when you start as a first year.

It's worth knowing more about business and finance before starting or when you're a junior as well. Read some pop-business books like Barbarians at the Gate, and learn some accounting and finance. If you want to know more about what bankers do, which will help you (and will also help you if you want to transition into finance), this is a good book: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/11186 ... UTF8&psc=1. If you're working in a funds group I would recommend https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/04700 ... UTF8&psc=1.

throwaway_

New
Posts: 38
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2015 10:16 pm

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby throwaway_ » Fri May 12, 2017 11:27 pm

itbdvorm wrote:Banking is not the same MODELZ AND BOTTLEZ place it was fifteen years ago. But still a great gig for some people. I could see a path in my future one day that leads over to the investment banking side (maybe) - or not.


I'm curious about this. Given that you presumably do fairly elite but not market-leading work at your V15 (i.e. unlikely a Rob Kindler or Mark Rawlinson-type superstar), how many lawyers at your experience and competency level have you ever seen make the switch over? Over/under on two?

User avatar
Mickfromgm

Bronze
Posts: 144
Joined: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:40 pm

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Mickfromgm » Sat May 13, 2017 11:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is there anything you would recommend to a student preparing for corporate practice? For example, are there any books or law school courses you thought you were helpful? Not committed to any specific practice area within transactional work yet. I am 2L/rising 3L, and I will be at a firm this summer.

Thank you.


I took Corporations I & II, Securities Regulations I and II, and M&A I and II, and few others. Somewhat helpful, but not required at all.

Back in the day, every corporate partner swore by Charles Johnson's book on corporate finance, and the Anatomy of Merger. But that was a long, long time ago. However, much of the concepts in those books are still good. Worth taking a peek. Those books would have given any first-year corporate associate a serious leg up on his cohorts who didn't read them.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325767
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 15, 2017 12:19 pm

Likely going to quit my job around 11-12 months into my first year to go work for the government. Not that I anticipate ever wanting to come back to biglaw, but if I did, would a firm hire me back? Or is that too short a time to have worked to come back into the biglaw fold?

Thanks for your continued advice here.

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon May 15, 2017 1:46 pm

throwaway_ wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:Banking is not the same MODELZ AND BOTTLEZ place it was fifteen years ago. But still a great gig for some people. I could see a path in my future one day that leads over to the investment banking side (maybe) - or not.


I'm curious about this. Given that you presumably do fairly elite but not market-leading work at your V15 (i.e. unlikely a Rob Kindler or Mark Rawlinson-type superstar), how many lawyers at your experience and competency level have you ever seen make the switch over? Over/under on two?


Well, I'm certainly not Rob Kindler (no one is). But I'm also quite a bit more junior than he is, or than he was when he made the move.

Add a few years to my resume and I certainly think I'm in the ballpark. Certainly know of several folks who have made that move, or similar ones, whom I believe are comparable to where I expect to be in a few years. And remember, I've always said V15 just to make it harder to figure out who I am. Who says I don't do market-leading work? :)

Still, it's a coin flip at best, and agree things would need to line up correctly for it to make sense.

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon May 15, 2017 1:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Likely going to quit my job around 11-12 months into my first year to go work for the government. Not that I anticipate ever wanting to come back to biglaw, but if I did, would a firm hire me back? Or is that too short a time to have worked to come back into the biglaw fold?

Thanks for your continued advice here.


Quit to go work for the government is different from getting hired to go into a specific field/position. Do that for a few years and develop expertise and certainly opportunities will be available.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325767
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 20, 2017 2:41 pm

Just received a lateral offer from a firm I'm pretty excited about, but the signing bonus came in lower than expected. I came in without a recruiter and the bonus is below the 25% of salary I understand to be standard for a recruiter's commission, so I think they're saving money on me. I'm super excited about the prospect of a new firm that will likely have more complex work than what I'm doing now, but I love my current firm and, even though it's not totally about the money, a bigger bonus would certainly be nice and would make the decision easier.

Is trying to negotiate signing bonuses a nonstarter? Does it vary by firm? Has a lateral candidate ever tried it with you and, if so, what was your reaction?

Anonymous User
Posts: 325767
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat May 20, 2017 11:57 pm

I am a recent 3rd year lateral (a year ago) to a V firm where the equity PPP is $3M. Doing extremely well and curious on what a non-equity partner could expect. Don’t know who (or how) to ask. My guess is around $1.2M. Any insight/guess?

(And no, I do not have a new "whale" client on the horizon).

juzam_djinn

Bronze
Posts: 368
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 1:23 pm

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby juzam_djinn » Sun May 21, 2017 1:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am a recent 3rd year lateral (a year ago) to a V firm where the equity PPP is $3M. Doing extremely well and curious on what a non-equity partner could expect. Don’t know who (or how) to ask. My guess is around $1.2M. Any insight/guess?

(And no, I do not have a new "whale" client on the horizon).


curious about this too, but my guess is that junior non-equity partners can not possibly expect anywhere close to 1.2M. would love to hear that i'm wrong though

Anonymous User
Posts: 325767
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sun May 21, 2017 3:36 am

Do you think a T14 applicant at about top 25% or so of his or her class, law review, a year or two of V50 big law experience, and a federal district court clerkship in a less competitive market (think middle of the country) would be a good lateral candidate at your V15 firm or other V15 firms? I know that it all depends on what the firm is looking for. But when I went through OCI I remember some firms circling law review on people's resumes when they handed them to the interviewer, some would pretty much stop paying attention if you didn't meet their grade cut offs, etc. With worse than aforesaid stats at the time, I couldn't land V20. I'm just wondering if I had to lateral, would I be qualified to lateral upward to V15 or V20 or would my options likely be limited to V50-100 again?

redsox550

Moderator
Posts: 307
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 3:15 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby redsox550 » Sun May 21, 2017 2:05 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Johann wrote:do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?


I was extraordinarily efficient and flawless as a junior. That meant that EVERY partner wanted in on me.


Can you describe what flawless means in this context? Never a typo? Never any comments to your work? Never missed a single thing?

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon May 22, 2017 12:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just received a lateral offer from a firm I'm pretty excited about, but the signing bonus came in lower than expected. I came in without a recruiter and the bonus is below the 25% of salary I understand to be standard for a recruiter's commission, so I think they're saving money on me. I'm super excited about the prospect of a new firm that will likely have more complex work than what I'm doing now, but I love my current firm and, even though it's not totally about the money, a bigger bonus would certainly be nice and would make the decision easier.

Is trying to negotiate signing bonuses a nonstarter? Does it vary by firm? Has a lateral candidate ever tried it with you and, if so, what was your reaction?


Never with me - I wouldn't really recommend it strongly (and definitely would not mention it to a lawyer directly). Might ask recruiting team whether there's any flex? But softly...

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon May 22, 2017 12:15 pm

juzam_djinn wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a recent 3rd year lateral (a year ago) to a V firm where the equity PPP is $3M. Doing extremely well and curious on what a non-equity partner could expect. Don’t know who (or how) to ask. My guess is around $1.2M. Any insight/guess?

(And no, I do not have a new "whale" client on the horizon).


curious about this too, but my guess is that junior non-equity partners can not possibly expect anywhere close to 1.2M. would love to hear that i'm wrong though


Almost certainly less, but depends on the firm.

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon May 22, 2017 12:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do you think a T14 applicant at about top 25% or so of his or her class, law review, a year or two of V50 big law experience, and a federal district court clerkship in a less competitive market (think middle of the country) would be a good lateral candidate at your V15 firm or other V15 firms? I know that it all depends on what the firm is looking for. But when I went through OCI I remember some firms circling law review on people's resumes when they handed them to the interviewer, some would pretty much stop paying attention if you didn't meet their grade cut offs, etc. With worse than aforesaid stats at the time, I couldn't land V20. I'm just wondering if I had to lateral, would I be qualified to lateral upward to V15 or V20 or would my options likely be limited to V50-100 again?


Much easier to lateral in after a few years than to get hired straight out of law school. Good luck.

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon May 22, 2017 12:17 pm

redsox550 wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Johann wrote:do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?


I was extraordinarily efficient and flawless as a junior. That meant that EVERY partner wanted in on me.


Can you describe what flawless means in this context? Never a typo? Never any comments to your work? Never missed a single thing?


Truly flawless doesn't exist. But extremely few typos, and doing very advanced work relative to my class year.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325767
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 22, 2017 1:06 pm

I interviewed for a few places and got shot down during law school (post-callback). Now, a few years later, am I probably dead in the water if I tried to apply with them again?

These firms are small ish offices of BigLaw firms. Think, like, 20 person patent practice group in an office of 50 people. I was no offered after 2L, though have a very strong resume otherwise, and have successfully managed to stay in BigLaw, but in a different market. I applied extremely broadly after getting no offered, and got a lot of interest due to strong resume, but had a lot of trouble turning CBs into an offer due to the no-offer.

Do I have a pretty slim shot at all the firms where I interviewed and was rejected? Any other advice?

Thanks.

Anonymous User
Posts: 325767
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 22, 2017 1:40 pm

I am noticing a lot of lateral movement from friends and colleagues, but they often seem to land on the same rank firm, same group and same city. Do you know what causes these moves? I do not get for example the point of moving from 1 NYC corporate v25 to another v25. Am I missing something?

User avatar
Vincent Adultman

Silver
Posts: 1097
Joined: Thu May 04, 2017 2:08 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Vincent Adultman » Mon May 22, 2017 1:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I am noticing a lot of lateral movement from friends and colleagues, but they often seem to land on the same rank firm, same group and same city. Do you know what causes these moves? I do not get for example the point of moving from 1 NYC corporate v25 to another v25. Am I missing something?


People are deluding themselves that the grass is greener. Also firm 2 doesn't know how many hours you billed at firm 1. So you get a clean slate.

itbdvorm

Gold
Posts: 1710
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon May 22, 2017 1:47 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I interviewed for a few places and got shot down during law school (post-callback). Now, a few years later, am I probably dead in the water if I tried to apply with them again?

These firms are small ish offices of BigLaw firms. Think, like, 20 person patent practice group in an office of 50 people. I was no offered after 2L, though have a very strong resume otherwise, and have successfully managed to stay in BigLaw, but in a different market. I applied extremely broadly after getting no offered, and got a lot of interest due to strong resume, but had a lot of trouble turning CBs into an offer due to the no-offer.

Do I have a pretty slim shot at all the firms where I interviewed and was rejected? Any other advice?

Thanks.


Decent shot I think actually, assuming match between what you've been doing and what they do. Why did you get no-offered? That may influence things too. Feel free to PM if don't want to get into details.

User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10277
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby jbagelboy » Mon May 22, 2017 1:48 pm

Martin Brody wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am noticing a lot of lateral movement from friends and colleagues, but they often seem to land on the same rank firm, same group and same city. Do you know what causes these moves? I do not get for example the point of moving from 1 NYC corporate v25 to another v25. Am I missing something?


People are deluding themselves that the grass is greener. Also firm 2 doesn't know how many hours you billed at firm 1. So you get a clean slate.


not only this. people are also trying to sustain themselves in biglaw for as long as possible. plenty of associates receive pressure from firm 1 to leave/find a new job; they think they can last at firm 2 for a couple more years.



Return to “Legal Employment?

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.