V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

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itbdvorm

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Wed May 03, 2017 7:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have two questions regarding post clerkship hiring. I am about to be a SA at a big NYC firm. Since getting the SA at OCI, I secured a D.Ct. and COA clerkship for two years following graduation. If I am considering applying to boutique litigation firms now that I have the clerkships, when should that process start? Assuming I get into another firm, at what point do I disclose it to the firm I am summering at? Any general insight on post COA opportunities in litigation?


post COA opportunities are obviously great. but I don't think you can have a post-COA job lined up for ethical reasons until late in your actual clerkship.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Lavitz » Wed May 03, 2017 8:08 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I have two questions regarding post clerkship hiring. I am about to be a SA at a big NYC firm. Since getting the SA at OCI, I secured a D.Ct. and COA clerkship for two years following graduation. If I am considering applying to boutique litigation firms now that I have the clerkships, when should that process start? Assuming I get into another firm, at what point do I disclose it to the firm I am summering at? Any general insight on post COA opportunities in litigation?


post COA opportunities are obviously great. but I don't think you can have a post-COA job lined up for ethical reasons until late in your actual clerkship.

It depends on the judge. Both of mine were fine with me accepting an offer at a firm during the clerkship / before it even started. As far as I know, most judges are ok with this, and even the ones who have a problem with it probably won't mind if you interview with firms and receive an offer as long as you don't accept it until the end of the clerkship.

As for the process, you'd start applying to firms after you start the second clerkship. Firms usually begin hiring clerk candidates in the Spring before a Fall start date, although some (like Kellogg) can start as early as a year in advance, which would be very soon after you start the second clerkship.

As for disclosure to the summer firm, I'm assuming they already know about the clerkships, so standard procedure would be for you to not accept your offer, but ask them if they can extend it to you again during the Spring of your second clerkship. Mine offered to "touch base" with me in the Spring. You may want to ask your second judge what their policy is so you can let the firm know if the second judge isn't going to allow you to accept the offer until near the end of the clerkship anyway. If you get a lit boutique offer during the second clerkship, then just let the summer firm know you won't be accepting their offer. If you don't get one and your summer firm re-offers you in the Spring, you can just ask for more time.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 04, 2017 7:06 pm

Can one make partner without ever billing over 2000/year?

Assume top academic credentials (top 5% at lower t14) and (so far after 2 years) near flawless work product.

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Thu May 04, 2017 10:35 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can one make partner without ever billing over 2000/year?

Assume top academic credentials (top 5% at lower t14) and (so far after 2 years) near flawless work product.


I don't think academic credentials are very relevant to making partner

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Thu May 04, 2017 11:00 pm

:lol:

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Thu May 04, 2017 11:06 pm

Mlk&Ckies wrote::lol:


Are they? :?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Mr. Peanutbutter » Thu May 04, 2017 11:22 pm

No, I was laughing at the idea that a middling billing 2nd year would think their good grades will let them coast to partner.

Having good credentials might be necessary at some firms, but I can't believe that would be sufficient anywhere. Being a workaholic seems to be definitional to making partner.

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Vincent Adultman

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Vincent Adultman » Thu May 04, 2017 11:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can one make partner without ever billing over 2000/year?

Assume top academic credentials (top 5% at lower t14) and (so far after 2 years) near flawless work product.


LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL

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Johann

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Johann » Thu May 04, 2017 11:44 pm

do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu May 04, 2017 11:51 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For a current student, do you think that one will be better off in terms of career development and skill acquisition at a firm's headquarters or at a brand new office of that firm? Assuming the firm is very reputable (v15) and isn't Latham (or has any history similar to that of Latham's layoffs), and that the new office is projected to have about 10 or so partners at its inception, is going to one a mistake over the other?

I'm thinking that the new office would have more leverage for juniors and opportunities for leadership, being there at ground zero, but you gave some cautionary advice regarding tiny outposts earlier.

Thoughts?


a) every V15, excepting Wachtell, has a history similar to that of Latham's layoffs

b) I view a brand new office differently than a tiny outpost. presumably, the entrance into the market is viewed as a long-term strategic growth opportunity. still, a risk - not all of those last 10 years - and many of those 10 or so partners will be bringing along their favorite associates. so really can't say for certain.


Different anon, but does Paul Weiss in their recent history (like couple decades) for a? I'm a current associate there and am legitimately curious if their statements about not laying off or no offering or revoking offers during the recccession are real or just bull shit/kool aid.

Thanks again btw for this thread. Has been invaluable to the community over the years.

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Pragmatic Gun

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Thu May 04, 2017 11:52 pm

I know it's normal for law students to want to believe that their school credentials account for a lot in practice (believe me, I've had similar thoughts in the past), but for a practicing associate to entertain this question?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 05, 2017 8:23 am

Hi, not sure if this has been answered before: What can an international JD student at a t14 school do to get NYC/DC biglaw at OCI? Also, would the need for H1B visa sponsorship be a deal-breaker for firms given the priorities of the new administration?
Thank a lot for sharing your experience and perspective.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby DildaMan » Fri May 05, 2017 10:54 am

Pragmatic Gun wrote:I know it's normal for law students to want to believe that their school credentials account for a lot in practice (believe me, I've had similar thoughts in the past), but for a practicing associate to entertain this question?


They're a short-term proxy for competence. If the attorney is bad, its just a matter of time before their peers find out.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri May 05, 2017 3:06 pm

Johann wrote:do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?


I was extraordinarily efficient and flawless as a junior. That meant that EVERY partner wanted in on me.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri May 05, 2017 3:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For a current student, do you think that one will be better off in terms of career development and skill acquisition at a firm's headquarters or at a brand new office of that firm? Assuming the firm is very reputable (v15) and isn't Latham (or has any history similar to that of Latham's layoffs), and that the new office is projected to have about 10 or so partners at its inception, is going to one a mistake over the other?

I'm thinking that the new office would have more leverage for juniors and opportunities for leadership, being there at ground zero, but you gave some cautionary advice regarding tiny outposts earlier.

Thoughts?


a) every V15, excepting Wachtell, has a history similar to that of Latham's layoffs

b) I view a brand new office differently than a tiny outpost. presumably, the entrance into the market is viewed as a long-term strategic growth opportunity. still, a risk - not all of those last 10 years - and many of those 10 or so partners will be bringing along their favorite associates. so really can't say for certain.


Different anon, but does Paul Weiss in their recent history (like couple decades) for a? I'm a current associate there and am legitimately curious if their statements about not laying off or no offering or revoking offers during the recccession are real or just bull shit/kool aid.

Thanks again btw for this thread. Has been invaluable to the community over the years.


The latter.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri May 05, 2017 6:33 pm

Johann wrote:do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?


Why not? I only work with 1 partner. I don't see why I couldn't just ride this to the end. Partners approach me all the time but I just say I'm busy, which is true (50/week). Then I take 6 weeks worth of vacation throughout the year. :P

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat May 06, 2017 12:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Johann wrote:do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?


Why not? I only work with 1 partner. I don't see why I couldn't just ride this to the end. Partners approach me all the time but I just say I'm busy, which is true (50/week). Then I take 6 weeks worth of vacation throughout the year. :P

Does one partner's opinion really get you into partnership yourself?

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby kcdc1 » Sat May 06, 2017 1:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Johann wrote:do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?


Why not? I only work with 1 partner. I don't see why I couldn't just ride this to the end. Partners approach me all the time but I just say I'm busy, which is true (50/week). Then I take 6 weeks worth of vacation throughout the year. :P

1. 46 weeks x 50 hours = 2,300 hours
2. Turning down work because you're too "too busy" + billing sub-2,000 = likely to piss people off

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon May 08, 2017 1:38 am

Is there anything you would recommend to a student preparing for corporate practice? For example, are there any books or law school courses you thought you were helpful? Not committed to any specific practice area within transactional work yet. I am 2L/rising 3L, and I will be at a firm this summer.

Thank you.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon May 08, 2017 11:46 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Johann wrote:do you think someone with near flawless work product would never bill more than 2,000 hrs in a year? some other partners would want in on that efficient junior/midlevel right?


Why not? I only work with 1 partner. I don't see why I couldn't just ride this to the end. Partners approach me all the time but I just say I'm busy, which is true (50/week). Then I take 6 weeks worth of vacation throughout the year. :P

Does one partner's opinion really get you into partnership yourself?


Sounds like a counsel to me.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon May 08, 2017 11:49 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is there anything you would recommend to a student preparing for corporate practice? For example, are there any books or law school courses you thought you were helpful? Not committed to any specific practice area within transactional work yet. I am 2L/rising 3L, and I will be at a firm this summer.

Thank you.


Think I've mentioned this a few times before (if someone feels like looking I encourage it) - NYT DealBook / WSJ are always great to stay on top of things. Barbarians at the Gate for a dramatic version of an LBO (real life will be less cool, but it explains many things). Someone recently turned me on to Matt Levine's "Money Stuff" newsletter which is pretty quality. Would endorse all of these in some combination, not necessarily to read every one every day but a sampling will be helpful.

And may as well watch Too Big to Fail and Wall Street (both), Big Short if you haven't.

Courses? Corporations #1 by a mile, Securities if you're doing corp fin, Income Tax as well.

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Mickfromgm » Mon May 08, 2017 3:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can one make partner without ever billing over 2000/year?

Assume top academic credentials (top 5% at lower t14) and (so far after 2 years) near flawless work product.


I can assure that if you are a USDA-certified rainmaker, you can work 400 billable hours per year and they will give you a corner office and bazillion dollars. That's obvious - it's not how much revenue you personally create through your own work; instead, it's the sum of all revenues you generate for the firm. If 10 people are working full time from the client you brought to the table, 2,000 hours you personally bill would pale in comparison, right?

I knew a guy at biglaw who was truly a heavy hitter. I think he went to St. John's Law or something, and I heard he had very mediocre grades. But he made a lot of important contacts when he served in Vietnam (or Korea?). He had the biggest corner office and all the nicest furnitures and shiny toys in it. He never worked past 4:30 p.m. and came in at 10 a.m. at the earliest. I was told he never billed more than 1,100 hours. Nevertheless, the amount of butt kissing he got from firm management was incredible. Lesson learned.

Partnership is never ONLY about how hard you work, how good your work product is, how precious your academic credentials are, etc. "Technicians" are dime a dozen, but true rainmakers are hard to come by. Without work generation, no one eats at the firm. Of course, technicians are needed and are valuable, too, in order to properly service the client. The point is that, if you can do some serious rain dance, no one cares about all the rest. I stress the word "serious" in the preceding sentence. Unfortunately, for rest of mere mortals, billing crap load of hours is a necessary component of being a partner, especially an equity partner. But in many places, senior associates consistently billing 1,900-2,000 might just do it.

But if you have superior skillset/knowledge base on some obscure areas of law, you *could* have a nice lifestyle and be elected non-equity partner. I knew someone who specialized on blue sky laws (i.e., state securities laws), and she became a service partner without billing much because no one wanted to deal with blue sky laws (nor truly understood what they were) but you couldn't do IPOs without making appropriate blue sky filings with all the states. So she filled a critical need.

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Vincent Adultman

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Vincent Adultman » Mon May 08, 2017 4:27 pm

If someone who started law in the 1960s/1970s can do it, anyone can!

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby ballouttacontrol » Mon May 08, 2017 4:30 pm

Martin Brody wrote:If someone who started law in the 1960s/1970s can do it, anyone can!


people have to retire/die eventually...

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Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby stannis » Tue May 09, 2017 5:55 am

Since making partner, has your social life changed? Do you spend more time with partners outside of the office and less with associates?



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