V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do you think it's too late to mass mail for a pre-EIP interview now? Would you recommend someone only reaching out to firms on his/her bid list? What would you recommend saying in the cover letter (or have you seen threads around here with good advice for this)? Thanks.


Seems a little silly, but an expression of interest couldn't hurt

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I posted a while back about bidding high in NYC because I think I want to work in Philadelphia (where I'm from). I took your advice and shot high because I wasn't really set on NYC, ie, go big or go home.

With respect to grades, I'm already punching well above my coverage. Its pre-OCI and after a little bit of hustle, I have a lower V5 callback and a lower V10 offer pre-oci. My general question is, if I'm still undecided on practice area, what do you advise on how to evaluate one firm verse another. I found the early screeners/interviewers all fairly nice. I understand my interaction with them is not necessarily indicative of what firm life will be like.

Also, do you have any general opinions on the top NYC firms that you care to share?


Nice work. If undecided, try to get a sense of optionality within groups both during a summer and beyond. I think in reality you'll settle in pretty quickly to one of a few areas

I've discussed firms a few times in the past, but happy to discuss specifics via pm

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I intend to clerk and will be applying in December. I also intend to work in a smaller east coat market afterwards for cost of living/family. Is it OK to take a fancy NYC summer spot knowing that I want to clerk and then move to a smaller market later? My thought is that a firm like S&C on the resume for the summer will look good. Then in a few years I can apply to the smaller market I want to live in. I know this sounds ridiculous, but I want a fun NYC summer before I sell my soul as an associate elsewhere.


Define "OK"

we'd rather you didn't do that, but so long as you're not an a-hole about it no one will hold it against you long term

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hello itbdvorm. I want to start off by thanking you for what you've done here. I hope one day I can follow in your foot steps and give back to this community in the same way you have.

My question is regarding transferring.

I am currently top 3 at a T3 in NY and was admitted to CLS as a transfer student. If I want NYC BigLaw for 4-5 years, is it worth transferring to Columbia to attain that goal? COA at CLS would be about 200k, while my current school would be about 30k (I have a full scholarship, so just living expenses). I currently have a v10 callback (faculty connection), and a screener interview at a v50 from mass mailing, and I anticipate (praying/crossing fingers) OCI will lead to at least a few more interviews with NYC BigLaw.

Assuming I don't have any fancy career aspirations, and all I want is to make some money in NYC BigLaw so that I can one day go join a family business while trying to start my own firm, would you transfer? Does transferring give me a better chance at landing NYC BigLaw, and if so, is that change in opportunity worth the debt I would be placing myself in?

One final note. If I strike out at my current school and don't land NYC BigLaw, I will be very upset, and I think I will regret not attending Columbia.

Again, thank you. I think I speak for everyone on TLS when I say, we really appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to help a bunch of kids who just really want to be like you one day.


So for what it's worth...

I think you will be better off NOT transferring

If you are Top 3 at your school, your school will be vouching for you, pushing for you, etc. At Columbia, you will be competing against all Columbia kids PLUS all transfers. We don't like taking a ton of transfers, so they get a slightly higher scrutiny for on-campus recruiting vs. the kids we meet.

I've said this numerous times historically - I don't think transfers do much more than (somewhat) fix the part of you that feels insecure about where you went to school.

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:58 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
yay wrote:Do you ever respond to people who directly send you their job apps via email? does that annoy you or do you appreciate their taking initiative? Have you ever hired someone by this method?


forward -> recruiting


It's really nice of you, but is it common for partners to do so? If yes then massmailing partners in my areas of interest wouldn't be a bad idea as I assume that HR pays more attention to an email from partners, correct? Thanks for any input!


No idea

I doubt they pay more attention to my forwarded email than you directly. I would send just to recruiting.

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:At any large firm you know, does a single partner ever have enough clout and power to personally make hiring decisions on his own?


of course

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is there a significant benefit to have a degree from Yale 5+ years after graduation? I.e., if two law students, one who transferred to Yale and one who stayed at his T14 at the tippy top of his class both go do corporate work for a firm, is the Yale graduate going to have better exit options/get his foot in the door at more interesting/lucrative/prestigious places?

If you were looking at resumes for lateral hiring, would the Yale name impress you significantly more than Duke or Virginia and latin honors/law review?


maybe, but I'd notice the transfer and then no

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:10 pm

Hi, I just asked about clerking and moving from NYC to Philly after an SA in NYC. If I'm genuinely torn between them both, would you take the V10 SA verses a top Philly firm? Again, I think I want to do litigation, but I'm not entirely sure.

Part of my attraction to Philly is I can buy a house fairly soon and be really close to my family. Alternatively, the kids at Penn love NYC and there's a ton of pressure to work in the big city, at least have a great SA

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:36 pm

Anon from Canada above. I have two more questions.

It seems a lot of firms put a heavy focus on law review. This is really not a prestigious thing in my school (or most of Canada to my knowledge). All you have to do is apply, and in most cases you will get on it. Firms here view it as being no more valuable than any other standard EC like a clinic. I didn't elect to do LR myself in 1L. How badly is this going to hurt me in NYC applications, and is there any thing I could do to overcome that? I don't really feel I can write "nobody gives a shit about LR in Canada" in my cover letter.

Second, my school does not release class ranks, but only a distribution letter and indication of where you fall in it. My GPA falls in the top 5 students. I've had conversations with my classmates and identified 4 of the other 5 and they've told me their GPA. I've determined I'm tied for either 2nd or 3rd. Would there be a significant advantage to pointing out that I'm top 2 or 3 in the class (with no way to officially prove it if asked), or would top 5 essentially have the same effect?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2016 8:23 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a significant benefit to have a degree from Yale 5+ years after graduation? I.e., if two law students, one who transferred to Yale and one who stayed at his T14 at the tippy top of his class both go do corporate work for a firm, is the Yale graduate going to have better exit options/get his foot in the door at more interesting/lucrative/prestigious places?

If you were looking at resumes for lateral hiring, would the Yale name impress you significantly more than Duke or Virginia and latin honors/law review?


maybe, but I'd notice the transfer and then no


Thank you. So assuming debt load will be around the same - actually a little bit less for Yale - do you think it is worthwhile to transfer if you are really only interested in corporate/transactional work?

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hi, I just asked about clerking and moving from NYC to Philly after an SA in NYC. If I'm genuinely torn between them both, would you take the V10 SA verses a top Philly firm? Again, I think I want to do litigation, but I'm not entirely sure.

Part of my attraction to Philly is I can buy a house fairly soon and be really close to my family. Alternatively, the kids at Penn love NYC and there's a ton of pressure to work in the big city, at least have a great SA


Relatively easy to move from V10 to Philly; much harder other way around. I think training in NYC is better, though harder. What that means is your 20s will be rougher but your 30s (and 40s, 50s, etc) will be easier

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Anon from Canada above. I have two more questions.

It seems a lot of firms put a heavy focus on law review. This is really not a prestigious thing in my school (or most of Canada to my knowledge). All you have to do is apply, and in most cases you will get on it. Firms here view it as being no more valuable than any other standard EC like a clinic. I didn't elect to do LR myself in 1L. How badly is this going to hurt me in NYC applications, and is there any thing I could do to overcome that? I don't really feel I can write "nobody gives a shit about LR in Canada" in my cover letter.

Second, my school does not release class ranks, but only a distribution letter and indication of where you fall in it. My GPA falls in the top 5 students. I've had conversations with my classmates and identified 4 of the other 5 and they've told me their GPA. I've determined I'm tied for either 2nd or 3rd. Would there be a significant advantage to pointing out that I'm top 2 or 3 in the class (with no way to officially prove it if asked), or would top 5 essentially have the same effect?


ignore LR entirely and others will too

top 5 has same effect, but you can comment to that effect if brought up

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Is there a significant benefit to have a degree from Yale 5+ years after graduation? I.e., if two law students, one who transferred to Yale and one who stayed at his T14 at the tippy top of his class both go do corporate work for a firm, is the Yale graduate going to have better exit options/get his foot in the door at more interesting/lucrative/prestigious places?

If you were looking at resumes for lateral hiring, would the Yale name impress you significantly more than Duke or Virginia and latin honors/law review?


maybe, but I'd notice the transfer and then no


Thank you. So assuming debt load will be around the same - actually a little bit less for Yale - do you think it is worthwhile to transfer if you are really only interested in corporate/transactional work?


For a firm - not really

Maybe for exit options - could see that. Plus your network may be better at Yale.

User avatar
rpupkin
Posts: 3864
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby rpupkin » Mon Jul 18, 2016 9:42 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anon from Canada above. I have two more questions.

It seems a lot of firms put a heavy focus on law review. This is really not a prestigious thing in my school (or most of Canada to my knowledge). All you have to do is apply, and in most cases you will get on it. Firms here view it as being no more valuable than any other standard EC like a clinic. I didn't elect to do LR myself in 1L. How badly is this going to hurt me in NYC applications, and is there any thing I could do to overcome that? I don't really feel I can write "nobody gives a shit about LR in Canada" in my cover letter.

Second, my school does not release class ranks, but only a distribution letter and indication of where you fall in it. My GPA falls in the top 5 students. I've had conversations with my classmates and identified 4 of the other 5 and they've told me their GPA. I've determined I'm tied for either 2nd or 3rd. Would there be a significant advantage to pointing out that I'm top 2 or 3 in the class (with no way to officially prove it if asked), or would top 5 essentially have the same effect?


ignore LR entirely and others will too

top 5 has same effect, but you can comment to that effect if brought up

itbdvorm generally gives great advice, but I disagree here. I can't imagine the circumstance in which it would be appropriate to comment on your unofficially calculated "tied for either 2nd or 3rd" class rank. Do not bring this up during an interview.

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:49 pm

rpupkin wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Anon from Canada above. I have two more questions.

It seems a lot of firms put a heavy focus on law review. This is really not a prestigious thing in my school (or most of Canada to my knowledge). All you have to do is apply, and in most cases you will get on it. Firms here view it as being no more valuable than any other standard EC like a clinic. I didn't elect to do LR myself in 1L. How badly is this going to hurt me in NYC applications, and is there any thing I could do to overcome that? I don't really feel I can write "nobody gives a shit about LR in Canada" in my cover letter.

Second, my school does not release class ranks, but only a distribution letter and indication of where you fall in it. My GPA falls in the top 5 students. I've had conversations with my classmates and identified 4 of the other 5 and they've told me their GPA. I've determined I'm tied for either 2nd or 3rd. Would there be a significant advantage to pointing out that I'm top 2 or 3 in the class (with no way to officially prove it if asked), or would top 5 essentially have the same effect?


ignore LR entirely and others will too

top 5 has same effect, but you can comment to that effect if brought up

itbdvorm generally gives great advice, but I disagree here. I can't imagine the circumstance in which it would be appropriate to comment on your unofficially calculated "tied for either 2nd or 3rd" class rank. Do not bring this up during an interview.


Probably the right advice - hard to do well/smoothly. Note I said "if brought up"; my thought was something like:

"Looks like you did well - top 5?"
"Yes, thank you. I actually think I may be #3, but we don't get down to that granularity"

But high degree of difficulty in not making this sound horrible. I'd test it.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 19, 2016 5:16 pm

Thanks for doing this.

I'm starting at a midlaw firm next month. What if anything can I do as a new associate to make myself stand out to the partners. FWIW the group I'm in has a bunch of partners and one other associate.

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Wed Jul 20, 2016 3:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks for doing this.

I'm starting at a midlaw firm next month. What if anything can I do as a new associate to make myself stand out to the partners. FWIW the group I'm in has a bunch of partners and one other associate.


Spend the next month reading everything you possibly can about the group, what you do, etc. Show up knowing the group, but be humble about it.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2016 9:28 pm

Hi itbdvorm,

Like the above poster said, thanks for doing this. I'm a rising 2L and wondering about my OCI chances for BigLaw. MVP, bottom third for sure but nothing below a B, probably hovering just above the bottom 1/4 at this point. 4 years solid WE in non legal but somewhat transferable field.

I've pulled out all the stops with connections I have made over 1L year, and managed to land a Pre-OCI interview with a v10. I got on with the interviewer pretty well but my transcript stopped any next steps from happening. I've gotten in touch with people from all the firms I'm interested in, started to mass mail (no bites yet, but hoping) and will continue to do that right up to OCI. Pre law school, I worked in a field where the hustle is part of the job description, so I'm prepared to work my tail off to get where I need to be.

Looking to stay in NY market - not set on BigLaw necessarily but would like a firm job if possible. I'm not obsessed with the salary. I'd take below market, even though I know it will take a bit longer to pay off the loans. I just want to learn how to be a great lawyer.

Any insight greatly appreciated.

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:19 am

Anonymous User wrote:Hi itbdvorm,

Like the above poster said, thanks for doing this. I'm a rising 2L and wondering about my OCI chances for BigLaw. MVP, bottom third for sure but nothing below a B, probably hovering just above the bottom 1/4 at this point. 4 years solid WE in non legal but somewhat transferable field.

I've pulled out all the stops with connections I have made over 1L year, and managed to land a Pre-OCI interview with a v10. I got on with the interviewer pretty well but my transcript stopped any next steps from happening. I've gotten in touch with people from all the firms I'm interested in, started to mass mail (no bites yet, but hoping) and will continue to do that right up to OCI. Pre law school, I worked in a field where the hustle is part of the job description, so I'm prepared to work my tail off to get where I need to be.

Looking to stay in NY market - not set on BigLaw necessarily but would like a firm job if possible. I'm not obsessed with the salary. I'd take below market, even though I know it will take a bit longer to pay off the loans. I just want to learn how to be a great lawyer.

Any insight greatly appreciated.


Talk to career services, get some firms who hired people in your GPA range last year, and get an interview with them BEFORE OCI.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2016 10:24 am

Thanks so much for answering questions, this thread has been really interesting and helpful.

I'm not sure if you could provide any insight, but I thought I'd ask- I'm at HLS and am below median with a few years of decent but unrelated work experience. I'm shooting for NYC transactional. Is it a waste to bid on V10 firms? Am I safe bidding primarily V25 firms or should I be focusing on, say, V50, V100?

Any advice would be really helpful. Putting together a bidlist with just information from Google is a little stressful. Thanks in advance.

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:Thanks so much for answering questions, this thread has been really interesting and helpful.

I'm not sure if you could provide any insight, but I thought I'd ask- I'm at HLS and am below median with a few years of decent but unrelated work experience. I'm shooting for NYC transactional. Is it a waste to bid on V10 firms? Am I safe bidding primarily V25 firms or should I be focusing on, say, V50, V100?

Any advice would be really helpful. Putting together a bidlist with just information from Google is a little stressful. Thanks in advance.


Hard to know for sure - hard to know far below median you are, and don't know everyone's grade cut. I would assume Wachtell is out, probably Cravath/Sullivan, but some shot at the rest? Talk to peers, talk to career services

User avatar
UnfrozenCaveman
Posts: 282
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:06 pm

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby UnfrozenCaveman » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:43 pm

High vault ranking doesn't necessarily mean that the form is terribly grade selective. I just want to point that out to those with all these questions involving GPA ranges and vault firms.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2016 2:04 pm

T25 Top 10-12% no journal. I have 8 screening interviews and 2 CB next week. Worried about the no journal and only got the CB through my 1l job GC making a few calls. I'm I dead in the water or do I have any chance at an offer?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 21, 2016 4:52 pm

How do New York firms view good work experience (i.e. McKinsey/Goldman) Do you ever wonder why someone left for law?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273386
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2016 3:33 am

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Thanks so much for answering questions, this thread has been really interesting and helpful.

I'm not sure if you could provide any insight, but I thought I'd ask- I'm at HLS and am below median with a few years of decent but unrelated work experience. I'm shooting for NYC transactional. Is it a waste to bid on V10 firms? Am I safe bidding primarily V25 firms or should I be focusing on, say, V50, V100?

Any advice would be really helpful. Putting together a bidlist with just information from Google is a little stressful. Thanks in advance.


Hard to know for sure - hard to know far below median you are, and don't know everyone's grade cut. I would assume Wachtell is out, probably Cravath/Sullivan, but some shot at the rest? Talk to peers, talk to career services


Thanks for the advice. Ive been asking around but even ocs doesn't seem to want to say anything too explicit or frank :( I'm just below median (1H) if that makes any difference.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.