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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2015 11:56 am
by jbagelboy
I think the "T1 school to V10" conversation isn't just about where the school falls in the commercial survey; even top firms will always pull a couple top students from "T50" schools in their region. For example, Cravath and Davis Polk will take the occasional St. John's or BLS student, Irell and Munger will take the occasional Loyola student, ect. It's not like firms don't look at schools below a certain USNWR "rank," they just might not traditionally recruit from very regional schools in other parts of the country. This shouldn't indicate a total aversion to those schools as some sort of recruiting doctrine.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:32 pm
by pancakes3
Resume paper is flame, yes?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:19 pm
by Anonymous User
So, I have a few invitations for pre-OCI callbacks with V20 firms that I did callback interviews with as a 1L, but that did not offer me a summer position. I'm a stretch gradewise for one of the firms that made me a second callback offer, but--on the other hand--this firm extended the invitation knowing what my grades are. Obviously I'm going to do the interview, but I'm curious to know where I stand in the eyes of the firm. Was the callback offer just a courtesy, or do I have a real chance to outperform my grades? I'm going to go into the interview assuming the latter, obviously, but I'm still curious. I'm at CCN, if it matters.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:31 pm
by chuckbass
scottidsntknow wrote:Is it easy to get involved in recruiting at a firm once you start if you're interested? And would you recommend it?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:20 am
by justkeepswimming794
in terms of cover letters for OCI apps, how much flexibility is there for the sign off/ signature at the end? for example, If the recruiter is someone you have met several times, had dinner with/coffee with, informational interviewed with, etc, should I still say:

"blah blah blah...

Sincerely,

____name______"

...or can we use other expressions such as "very truly yours" "all my best" etc. ? I would like to remain professional but also not seem awkwardly formal, or (dare I say it) actually seem somewhat personal, if already on a first name basis?

any feedback greatly appreciated.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 2:03 am
by El Pollito
justkeepswimming794 wrote:in terms of cover letters for OCI apps, how much flexibility is there for the sign off/ signature at the end? for example, If the recruiter is someone you have met several times, had dinner with/coffee with, informational interviewed with, etc, should I still say:

"blah blah blah...

Sincerely,

____name______"

...or can we use other expressions such as "very truly yours" "all my best" etc. ? I would like to remain professional but also not seem awkwardly formal, or (dare I say it) actually seem somewhat personal, if already on a first name basis?

any feedback greatly appreciated.

you don't need to keep it super formal after the first round of communications if they don't. I usually just sign stuff best or thanks.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:00 am
by ozymandius
El Pollito wrote:you don't need to keep it super formal after the first round of communications if they don't. I usually just sign stuff best or thanks.


"Thanks" rubs some people the wrong way because it sounds dismissive, so I would avoid that one.

For a cover email, "best" is fine (personally, I use "best" for all of my email correspondence, whether to a client or a paralegal at a local counsel). For a PDFed cover letter (if that's what you're using), "sincerely" is better, because that's more likely to be passed around to other people (although I've never loved it--are you suggesting that you sometimes send correspondence that isn't sincere, but that this time is different?). "Regards" or "Warm regards" can often be good middle-ground options.

With law firms, you should in general err on the side of formality, as you're more likely to be penalized for a lack of formality than an excess.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:49 pm
by itbdvorm
Sotomajoritarian wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
Sotomajoritarian wrote:Hi itbdvorm -- thanks for doing this.

I'm top 10% at a small T30 law school. Haven't received word back about LR... hoping for the best. I also went to an ivy league UG, but I don't have stellar UG grades (which explains why I'm going to a T30 school).

I love my school, but our OCS is terrifically bad. Few resources, very little guidance. There are a handful of biglaw firms doing OCI with us, but not too many. Given my grades and some other resume-boosters that I can boast, however, I'm hoping I have a shot at the big leagues. Then again, there's no way for me to know, because OCS hasn't given us any info about which firms recruit here, and which generally don't.

Before I waste time applying to a firm, what's the best way of finding out if that firm will even look at me? I've thought about calling up their recruiter and simply asking them, but won't they just give me an answer like "We consider applicants from all schools! :wink:" or "Send over your application, and we'll take a look! :wink:"?

TL;DR -- I'm at the top of my class at a not-great law school, and I have no context for what that will mean for my job aspirations.


I realize I am not OP, but why wouldn't you apply anyways? Just apply everywhere, what's the harm besides wasting a bit of time. It could lead to a job. Also, there should still be a public list of firms that regularly hire from your school. If not, just talk to 3Ls and recent grads.


Thanks for the reply, trebek. Putting together cover letters tends to take me a while (even if I'm just copying/pasting from other cover letters), and if I'm writing out cover letters to lots of firms that won't even consider me, then isn't that a non-negligible waste of time?

I know for a fact that some firms won't even consider bottom T14s, let alone non-T14s. Long story short, I want to try to focus my time on firms that won't scoff at my school and toss my cover letter in the trash.


Take a look at some of the people who just made partner at any top firm. You will be shocked at the schools they went to.

You should apply EVERYWHERE. Best inroads are absolutely 2Ls currently summering. Top 10% at a T30 is going to be good enough on its own for almost any firm other than Wachtell. Whether you're good enough on the whole, who knows. You know what's a non-negligible waste of time? Not using every resource at your disposal to apply for the single most important job decision of your life. Get after it.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:51 pm
by itbdvorm
scottidsntknow wrote:Is it easy to get involved in recruiting at a firm once you start if you're interested? And would you recommend it?


Yes and yes.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:52 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:What do you think when you get a resume from someone who worked in finance their 1L summer and wants to do transactional?


Uh. That this person seems qualified/knowledgable? Not sure I follow the question.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:53 pm
by itbdvorm
pancakes3 wrote:Resume paper is flame, yes?


Can't hurt, but unlikely to be particularly helpful. Don't go pink and scented.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:55 pm
by Anonymous User
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What do you think when you get a resume from someone who worked in finance their 1L summer and wants to do transactional?


Uh. That this person seems qualified/knowledgable? Not sure I follow the question.


I think the question should be, is there a negative quality to working in finance your first summer? Since it is non-law. I know that my CSO freaks out when anyone doesn't work in a legal capacity their first summer.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:56 pm
by Anonymous User
Question: I interviewed at a big firm in a medium market for a litigation position a couple months ago. They loved me and my resume was good enough for them, but they said I didn't have enough courtroom experience for them. I had been litigating for 2 years, but I had minimal courtroom experience. I'm at a smaller boutique litigation firm that is well-respected, but the pay is pretty average. I like my firm, but I'll either eventually become a partner or leave. My question is: how and when should I re-approach the big firm about a position? My wife tells me I should re-approach in the fall, but I was think 1-2 years. Thoughts?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:11 pm
by El Pollito
itbdvorm wrote:
Sotomajoritarian wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
Sotomajoritarian wrote:Hi itbdvorm -- thanks for doing this.

I'm top 10% at a small T30 law school. Haven't received word back about LR... hoping for the best. I also went to an ivy league UG, but I don't have stellar UG grades (which explains why I'm going to a T30 school).

I love my school, but our OCS is terrifically bad. Few resources, very little guidance. There are a handful of biglaw firms doing OCI with us, but not too many. Given my grades and some other resume-boosters that I can boast, however, I'm hoping I have a shot at the big leagues. Then again, there's no way for me to know, because OCS hasn't given us any info about which firms recruit here, and which generally don't.

Before I waste time applying to a firm, what's the best way of finding out if that firm will even look at me? I've thought about calling up their recruiter and simply asking them, but won't they just give me an answer like "We consider applicants from all schools! :wink:" or "Send over your application, and we'll take a look! :wink:"?

TL;DR -- I'm at the top of my class at a not-great law school, and I have no context for what that will mean for my job aspirations.


I realize I am not OP, but why wouldn't you apply anyways? Just apply everywhere, what's the harm besides wasting a bit of time. It could lead to a job. Also, there should still be a public list of firms that regularly hire from your school. If not, just talk to 3Ls and recent grads.


Thanks for the reply, trebek. Putting together cover letters tends to take me a while (even if I'm just copying/pasting from other cover letters), and if I'm writing out cover letters to lots of firms that won't even consider me, then isn't that a non-negligible waste of time?

I know for a fact that some firms won't even consider bottom T14s, let alone non-T14s. Long story short, I want to try to focus my time on firms that won't scoff at my school and toss my cover letter in the trash.


Take a look at some of the people who just made partner at any top firm. You will be shocked at the schools they went to.

You should apply EVERYWHERE. Best inroads are absolutely 2Ls currently summering. Top 10% at a T30 is going to be good enough on its own for almost any firm other than Wachtell. Whether you're good enough on the whole, who knows. You know what's a non-negligible waste of time? Not using every resource at your disposal to apply for the single most important job decision of your life. Get after it.

this isn't really indicative at all of the current market

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:13 pm
by Anonymous User
Question:

I started my own business in the field in which I'd like to practice. I can tie the business back to why I am now trying to work at a law firm. The business isn't huge but it is moderately successful and could probably support myself on it.

Its the best part of my resume, but should I play it down so I don't look like a flight risk? Firms say they want "entrepreneurial" people but will they really put their money where their mouth is?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:24 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:So, I have a few invitations for pre-OCI callbacks with V20 firms that I did callback interviews with as a 1L, but that did not offer me a summer position. I'm a stretch gradewise for one of the firms that made me a second callback offer, but--on the other hand--this firm extended the invitation knowing what my grades are. Obviously I'm going to do the interview, but I'm curious to know where I stand in the eyes of the firm. Was the callback offer just a courtesy, or do I have a real chance to outperform my grades? I'm going to go into the interview assuming the latter, obviously, but I'm still curious. I'm at CCN, if it matters.


Assume they have your full transcript at this point (and had it before they extended the callback)? If that's the case, you've got a shot. Good luck.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:36 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What do you think when you get a resume from someone who worked in finance their 1L summer and wants to do transactional?


Uh. That this person seems qualified/knowledgable? Not sure I follow the question.


I think the question should be, is there a negative quality to working in finance your first summer? Since it is non-law. I know that my CSO freaks out when anyone doesn't work in a legal capacity their first summer.


I guess it depends on what you're doing. Wouldn't bother me. Finance doesn't have the same negative connotations that retail does.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:38 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:Question: I interviewed at a big firm in a medium market for a litigation position a couple months ago. They loved me and my resume was good enough for them, but they said I didn't have enough courtroom experience for them. I had been litigating for 2 years, but I had minimal courtroom experience. I'm at a smaller boutique litigation firm that is well-respected, but the pay is pretty average. I like my firm, but I'll either eventually become a partner or leave. My question is: how and when should I re-approach the big firm about a position? My wife tells me I should re-approach in the fall, but I was think 1-2 years. Thoughts?


When you would have more courtroom experience is when you should re-approach.

My guess is they were subtly telling you "go work for the DA/AUSA for a bit then come back" but what do I know about litigation.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:39 pm
by itbdvorm
El Pollito wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Sotomajoritarian wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:
Sotomajoritarian wrote:Hi itbdvorm -- thanks for doing this.

I'm top 10% at a small T30 law school. Haven't received word back about LR... hoping for the best. I also went to an ivy league UG, but I don't have stellar UG grades (which explains why I'm going to a T30 school).

I love my school, but our OCS is terrifically bad. Few resources, very little guidance. There are a handful of biglaw firms doing OCI with us, but not too many. Given my grades and some other resume-boosters that I can boast, however, I'm hoping I have a shot at the big leagues. Then again, there's no way for me to know, because OCS hasn't given us any info about which firms recruit here, and which generally don't.

Before I waste time applying to a firm, what's the best way of finding out if that firm will even look at me? I've thought about calling up their recruiter and simply asking them, but won't they just give me an answer like "We consider applicants from all schools! :wink:" or "Send over your application, and we'll take a look! :wink:"?

TL;DR -- I'm at the top of my class at a not-great law school, and I have no context for what that will mean for my job aspirations.


I realize I am not OP, but why wouldn't you apply anyways? Just apply everywhere, what's the harm besides wasting a bit of time. It could lead to a job. Also, there should still be a public list of firms that regularly hire from your school. If not, just talk to 3Ls and recent grads.


Thanks for the reply, trebek. Putting together cover letters tends to take me a while (even if I'm just copying/pasting from other cover letters), and if I'm writing out cover letters to lots of firms that won't even consider me, then isn't that a non-negligible waste of time?

I know for a fact that some firms won't even consider bottom T14s, let alone non-T14s. Long story short, I want to try to focus my time on firms that won't scoff at my school and toss my cover letter in the trash.


Take a look at some of the people who just made partner at any top firm. You will be shocked at the schools they went to.

You should apply EVERYWHERE. Best inroads are absolutely 2Ls currently summering. Top 10% at a T30 is going to be good enough on its own for almost any firm other than Wachtell. Whether you're good enough on the whole, who knows. You know what's a non-negligible waste of time? Not using every resource at your disposal to apply for the single most important job decision of your life. Get after it.

this isn't really indicative at all of the current market


It's much more indicative of what this fall's hiring will be than what last fall's hiring was. This will be a better market than last year given how busy firms are.

But the more important point is that virtually every firm will consider hiring someone outside the box if other pieces fit.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:40 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:Question:

I started my own business in the field in which I'd like to practice. I can tie the business back to why I am now trying to work at a law firm. The business isn't huge but it is moderately successful and could probably support myself on it.

Its the best part of my resume, but should I play it down so I don't look like a flight risk? Firms say they want "entrepreneurial" people but will they really put their money where their mouth is?


Who's running the business now? Are you a flight risk?

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 5:46 pm
by Anonymous User
.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:02 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:
Question:

I started my own business in the field in which I'd like to practice. I can tie the business back to why I am now trying to work at a law firm. The business isn't huge but it is moderately successful and could probably support myself on it.

Its the best part of my resume, but should I play it down so I don't look like a flight risk? Firms say they want "entrepreneurial" people but will they really put their money where their mouth is?


Who's running the business now? Are you a flight risk?


It is being run by my business partner. I can reasonably credibly show that it won't take too much of my time. I mean if the business continued growing I would leave, but that is a big if and I am happy with working big law.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:10 pm
by minnbills
Do you know anything about how big firms value bankruptcy clerkships?

I'm clerking in a decent sized market but am considering a route to NY. Right now thinking about trying to clerk again in SDNY after my current gig.

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 6:19 pm
by txdude45
Anonymous User wrote:So, I have a few invitations for pre-OCI callbacks with V20 firms that I did callback interviews with as a 1L, but that did not offer me a summer position. I'm a stretch gradewise for one of the firms that made me a second callback offer, but--on the other hand--this firm extended the invitation knowing what my grades are. Obviously I'm going to do the interview, but I'm curious to know where I stand in the eyes of the firm. Was the callback offer just a courtesy, or do I have a real chance to outperform my grades? I'm going to go into the interview assuming the latter, obviously, but I'm still curious. I'm at CCN, if it matters.


You have more than a chance. Firms don't care so little about their time that they proactively bring people in who they don't intend to try to hire. 1L positions are very limited, so they're hyper competitive and people firms really like get passed up. However, 2L positions are comparatively plentiful and firms can take most of the people they like. They approached you for pre-OCI callbacks when they could have easily said nothing. Based on my experience, the jobs are yours to lose. Goodluck!

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 1:22 pm
by itbdvorm
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Question:

I started my own business in the field in which I'd like to practice. I can tie the business back to why I am now trying to work at a law firm. The business isn't huge but it is moderately successful and could probably support myself on it.

Its the best part of my resume, but should I play it down so I don't look like a flight risk? Firms say they want "entrepreneurial" people but will they really put their money where their mouth is?


Who's running the business now? Are you a flight risk?


It is being run by my business partner. I can reasonably credibly show that it won't take too much of my time. I mean if the business continued growing I would leave, but that is a big if and I am happy with working big law.


Frankly? Makes me nervous.