V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:52 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
manofjustice wrote:Who goes through the stack of OCI resumes to do the first cull? Lawyer committee or an office's director of recruitment? Who has more pull to get the resume through the first cull? Any given associate or an office's director of recruitment?


I don't totally follow. at the schools at which I interview I meet with the students directly? for mass-mail i think recruiting office. but an associate putting in a strong word for you always helps


I've read the entire thread and I'm pretty sure this is the closest you've come to answering my question.

Our bids were due yesterday at Michigan. After the end of the bidding period, it's impossible to change anything about your bids, including the resume attached to the bid. My bids used the wrong resume, the one I used for my 1L job search, which doesn't have my current summer job and looks pretty terrible all around. I already talked to OCS and they said they can't change the resume as it's already been sent on to firms.

OCS suggested I get in touch with the recruiting contact at all the firms I get screeners with and ask them to distribute a copy of the corrected resume to the person who will be interviewing me. I'm planning to do this. I'll also be bringing extra copies of my resume to each interview just in case.

After reading your answer quoted above, it seems like nobody other than my actual interviewer will read my resume before my interview. Is that correct? Do you normally read a person's resume before they walk in the door? Do you think whether you do or don't read the resume beforehand is normal for interviewers? If you were to be accidentally provided with a clearly out-of-date resume (e.g. refers to March 2013 in future tense) would you assume it was the applicant's fault and he has poor attention to detail?

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Mr. Frodo » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:06 pm

Retagging

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby manofjustice » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:36 pm

TTRansfer wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Heavy stubble, properly groomed with borders on the neck and chin. In an interview. Not a good thing? Or not gonna matter?


terrible idea. beard is questionable enough.


what firm do you work at, the yankees? most people i know from OCI (CCN) who had beards were commended for not looking like generic grown babies with red blotches everywhere, and at my v5 summer job many attorneys and summers have beards, let alone trimmed stubble. and this is nyc, not sf or something.


Red blotches? It sounds like a lot of people at CCN need to learn to shave properly. I wouldn't give them a call back for that reason alone.

I use a safety razor and I don't even get "blotches" or cuts. Dear lord.


People were "commended" on their beards? That seems incredible.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:05 pm

manofjustice wrote:People were "commended" on their beards? That seems incredible.


yeah, I know a few who were, and many, many, many of my bearded friends, including me, got multiple callbacks and offers. they were commended for not falling in line and thinking "how would my mom want me to look in my yearbook picture," rather than, "what am i comfortable with, considering this is my body and this is simple facial hair, not a tattoo across my forehead."

a lot of people don't look good completely shaven (relatively to not), so it makes no sense to shave just for the sake of doing it. then again, make sure it looks presentable and not scraggily.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:29 pm

Anonymous User wrote:For a lateral junior associate hire, how long between the first interview and being asked back for a second at a big firm in a secondary market? At the first, I was given signs of interest - coming close to being expressly told to expect a call for a second interview. But no call yet, it has been one full week. Should I give up hope?

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby TTRansfer » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
manofjustice wrote:People were "commended" on their beards? That seems incredible.


yeah, I know a few who were, and many, many, many of my bearded friends, including me, got multiple callbacks and offers. they were commended for not falling in line and thinking "how would my mom want me to look in my yearbook picture," rather than, "what am i comfortable with, considering this is my body and this is simple facial hair, not a tattoo across my forehead."

a lot of people don't look good completely shaven (relatively to not), so it makes no sense to shave just for the sake of doing it. then again, make sure it looks presentable and not scraggily.


That sounds more like it occurred because a lot of assholes don't know how to properly shave and look retarded than it does being happy about seeing beards.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:16 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Disclaimer: I have not read through all 80+ pages of this thread, so I'm sorry if I have asked a repeat questions.

1) Do firms look differently at someone who wrote-on to LR as opposed to graded-on to LR?
2) Does it come across as trying to hard to name drop people you have met a LR firm mixers during an interview with the firm?
3) During the "do you have any questions for us" portion of the interview, I try and ask 3-4 questions. Is this a good number?

Thanks for doing this.


1) not easy to tell always. obviously means different things. better to meet our grade cut and not have law review than other way around.

2) depends on how you do it. "Why us?" "well, i met X, and he told me about Y, which sounded interesting"

3) sure. but what the questions are matters more than how many.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:OP, how much of a detriment is a lack of Law Review going to be for someone with top grades? If I'm asked about why I didn't make Law Review in an interview, how should I respond?


Piggybacking off of that, how much of a detriment is a lack of journal for someone with median/around median grades?


Law Review - really depends on the school, as was said before. "Detriment" is the wrong word. It may stop you from getting specific jobs but should have other opportunities.

Journal generally - meh. Might ask why not?


If they don't see journal on your resume, will they look at a writing sample to assess your writing ability? Or do they just automatically assume that you messed up (especially if you did do the journal competition and didn't make it).

Thanks for doing this.


Often not enough time to look at writing samples. I don't think we do.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How much do personal connections (lunches, phone calls, meetings over coffee) at firms help? If someone has already spoken to someone in the firm, are they involved in the hiring process?


not necessarily. but again, a positive note from someone always helps

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:21 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
manofjustice wrote:Who goes through the stack of OCI resumes to do the first cull? Lawyer committee or an office's director of recruitment? Who has more pull to get the resume through the first cull? Any given associate or an office's director of recruitment?


I don't totally follow. at the schools at which I interview I meet with the students directly? for mass-mail i think recruiting office. but an associate putting in a strong word for you always helps


I've read the entire thread and I'm pretty sure this is the closest you've come to answering my question.

Our bids were due yesterday at Michigan. After the end of the bidding period, it's impossible to change anything about your bids, including the resume attached to the bid. My bids used the wrong resume, the one I used for my 1L job search, which doesn't have my current summer job and looks pretty terrible all around. I already talked to OCS and they said they can't change the resume as it's already been sent on to firms.

OCS suggested I get in touch with the recruiting contact at all the firms I get screeners with and ask them to distribute a copy of the corrected resume to the person who will be interviewing me. I'm planning to do this. I'll also be bringing extra copies of my resume to each interview just in case.

After reading your answer quoted above, it seems like nobody other than my actual interviewer will read my resume before my interview. Is that correct? Do you normally read a person's resume before they walk in the door? Do you think whether you do or don't read the resume beforehand is normal for interviewers? If you were to be accidentally provided with a clearly out-of-date resume (e.g. refers to March 2013 in future tense) would you assume it was the applicant's fault and he has poor attention to detail?


Two answers:

1) Everyone sends emails out with the wrong attachments from time to time. It sucks, but generally fixable.

2) your approach is likely right. I generally do glance at resumes beforehand but probably have forgotten them by the time I meet with you. updated resume with a smile is probably fine w/99% of people

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
manofjustice wrote:People were "commended" on their beards? That seems incredible.


yeah, I know a few who were, and many, many, many of my bearded friends, including me, got multiple callbacks and offers. they were commended for not falling in line and thinking "how would my mom want me to look in my yearbook picture," rather than, "what am i comfortable with, considering this is my body and this is simple facial hair, not a tattoo across my forehead."

a lot of people don't look good completely shaven (relatively to not), so it makes no sense to shave just for the sake of doing it. then again, make sure it looks presentable and not scraggily.


believe what you want to believe. I'm assuming Skadden? bro out if you want to but I know a number of people who think unshaven = lazy/sloppy and barely tolerate beards.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:For a lateral junior associate hire, how long between the first interview and being asked back for a second at a big firm in a secondary market? At the first, I was given signs of interest - coming close to being expressly told to expect a call for a second interview. But no call yet, it has been one full week. Should I give up hope?


no idea. lateral hiring often takes awhile

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 25, 2013 7:24 pm

Yeah Michigan's system sucks re: that. I had a bad typo on my OCI resume. Some interviewers had looked at my resume before and a couple pointed it out / noticed it after talking to me. I still got several call-backs.

I'd walk in with a copy and just say you were confused with the computer system.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 26, 2013 9:22 am

Suppose you wanted/needed to take off 4-6 months from the firm (with no expectation of pay). This wouldn't be for anything child-related, and the reason may not be one you want to disclose with your firm (so, for all they know, you are spending half a year on vacation).

Is there an "ideal" time to do this? And if so, what do you think are the chances the firm would take you back when you were ready, assuming good-great work product. I assume the *best* time to do this would be if/when you made partner, but I'm thinking aside from that.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Suppose you wanted/needed to take off 4-6 months from the firm (with no expectation of pay). This wouldn't be for anything child-related, and the reason may not be one you want to disclose with your firm (so, for all they know, you are spending half a year on vacation).

Is there an "ideal" time to do this? And if so, what do you think are the chances the firm would take you back when you were ready, assuming good-great work product. I assume the *best* time to do this would be if/when you made partner, but I'm thinking aside from that.


uh.

before you start? if you do this at any time during your career it will be weird. i guess as a 1st-2nd year less so. but if a client calls you for something and "no, pete's on sabbatical", that's problematic

people do take leaves of absences, but if you are not junior (or maternity leave) it will be a red flag in your file

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 26, 2013 2:40 pm

Not sure if this has been asked but how would one approach a "reach" interview. Meaning, if you were interviewing somebody whose grades were mediocre or relatively weak, what would you expect the interviewee to do/act during the interview to overcome this and get a callback?

I know being a good fit would help but is there anything else?

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 26, 2013 6:32 pm

How is dating an associate in the office viewed? Girlfriend will be at the same firm and wondering how I should approach it come this fall.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Not sure if this has been asked but how would one approach a "reach" interview. Meaning, if you were interviewing somebody whose grades were mediocre or relatively weak, what would you expect the interviewee to do/act during the interview to overcome this and get a callback?

I know being a good fit would help but is there anything else?


.05 below the GPA cut - be charming, witty, sparkling, charismatic. a leader amongst men (or women).

.2 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the GC of KKR

.5 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the CEO of GE

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jul 26, 2013 7:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How is dating an associate in the office viewed? Girlfriend will be at the same firm and wondering how I should approach it come this fall.


is she there already? varies widely firm to firm

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 26, 2013 8:06 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:How is dating an associate in the office viewed? Girlfriend will be at the same firm and wondering how I should approach it come this fall.


is she there already? varies widely firm to firm

Going in together. Would it be different if she was a class ahead of me?

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:27 am

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not sure if this has been asked but how would one approach a "reach" interview. Meaning, if you were interviewing somebody whose grades were mediocre or relatively weak, what would you expect the interviewee to do/act during the interview to overcome this and get a callback?

I know being a good fit would help but is there anything else?


.05 below the GPA cut - be charming, witty, sparkling, charismatic. a leader amongst men (or women).

.2 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the GC of KKR

.5 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the CEO of GE


What is "the cut?" Is it the mean GPA of those selected for interviews? What the schools say it is when they post in the schedule (i.e., e.g. "top 1/3 required/preferred")? There is ambiguity because often firms will say something like "top 1/3 required/preferred" and then invite a significant number of people people for interviews significantly outside the top 1/3.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:35 am

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not sure if this has been asked but how would one approach a "reach" interview. Meaning, if you were interviewing somebody whose grades were mediocre or relatively weak, what would you expect the interviewee to do/act during the interview to overcome this and get a callback?

I know being a good fit would help but is there anything else?


.05 below the GPA cut - be charming, witty, sparkling, charismatic. a leader amongst men (or women).

.2 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the GC of KKR

.5 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the CEO of GE


I feel ridiculous for splicing hairs this thinly but since we have already started down the path....I'm .01 below several firm grade cutoffs. How will most firms view this GPA since it is technically below the cutoff?

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 27, 2013 11:41 am

Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not sure if this has been asked but how would one approach a "reach" interview. Meaning, if you were interviewing somebody whose grades were mediocre or relatively weak, what would you expect the interviewee to do/act during the interview to overcome this and get a callback?

I know being a good fit would help but is there anything else?


.05 below the GPA cut - be charming, witty, sparkling, charismatic. a leader amongst men (or women).

.2 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the GC of KKR

.5 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the CEO of GE


I feel ridiculous for splicing hairs this thinly but since we have already started down the path....I'm .01 below several firm grade cutoffs. How will most firms view this GPA since it is technically below the cutoff?


GTFO, dude. You're taking annoying neuroses to a really dumb level. I really hope OP doesn't dignify this with a legit response.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 27, 2013 12:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Not sure if this has been asked but how would one approach a "reach" interview. Meaning, if you were interviewing somebody whose grades were mediocre or relatively weak, what would you expect the interviewee to do/act during the interview to overcome this and get a callback?

I know being a good fit would help but is there anything else?


.05 below the GPA cut - be charming, witty, sparkling, charismatic. a leader amongst men (or women).

.2 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the GC of KKR

.5 below the GPA cut - mention your father, the CEO of GE


I feel ridiculous for splicing hairs this thinly but since we have already started down the path....I'm .01 below several firm grade cutoffs. How will most firms view this GPA since it is technically below the cutoff?


GTFO, dude. You're taking annoying neuroses to a really dumb level. I really hope OP doesn't dignify this with a legit response.

Thank you for your help.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 27, 2013 1:02 pm

It's a completely valid question. But it begs mine: what is the "cut?"




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