V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

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roranoa
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby roranoa » Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:30 am

TooOld4This wrote:
roranoa wrote:Do you know anyone (from your firm or from your school) who quit BigLaw and landed a professorship?
If you do, do you know how they did it?


Yes. Most: HYS (some T14s too)-->clerkship-->BigLaw for 2-3years-->professor (or VAP then prof)

A few worked for 6-10 years in a niche area, wrote during that time and then made the jump.

Wow. Where do you even find the time to write and publish articles while working in BigLaw?

TooOld4This
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby TooOld4This » Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:34 am

roranoa wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
roranoa wrote:Do you know anyone (from your firm or from your school) who quit BigLaw and landed a professorship?
If you do, do you know how they did it?


Yes. Most: HYS (some T14s too)-->clerkship-->BigLaw for 2-3years-->professor (or VAP then prof)

A few worked for 6-10 years in a niche area, wrote during that time and then made the jump.

Wow. Where do you even find the time to write and publish articles while working in BigLaw?


It's not easy. If you are a specialist, though, you will often hit an issue that you have to dig pretty deep on. This gives you an opportunity to convert research you did (or had a jr associate do) into an article. It is much harder if your practice is mostly covering well-tred ground. Synergies help. (Of course you need to stay clear of any confidentiality/conflicts issues.)

anon168
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:26 am

roranoa wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
roranoa wrote:Do you know anyone (from your firm or from your school) who quit BigLaw and landed a professorship?
If you do, do you know how they did it?


Yes. Most: HYS (some T14s too)-->clerkship-->BigLaw for 2-3years-->professor (or VAP then prof)

A few worked for 6-10 years in a niche area, wrote during that time and then made the jump.

Wow. Where do you even find the time to write and publish articles while working in BigLaw?


Why wouldn't you have time?

Time spent on writing articles is often billable time at most biglaw firms. It's called business development and/or marketing.

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jun 27, 2013 1:39 pm

Do you have any friends who have gone in-house and regret it? If so, why do they regret it and what would they have done differently?

roranoa
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby roranoa » Thu Jun 27, 2013 9:12 pm

anon168 wrote:
roranoa wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
roranoa wrote:Do you know anyone (from your firm or from your school) who quit BigLaw and landed a professorship?
If you do, do you know how they did it?


Yes. Most: HYS (some T14s too)-->clerkship-->BigLaw for 2-3years-->professor (or VAP then prof)

A few worked for 6-10 years in a niche area, wrote during that time and then made the jump.

Wow. Where do you even find the time to write and publish articles while working in BigLaw?


Why wouldn't you have time?

Time spent on writing articles is often billable time at most biglaw firms. It's called business development and/or marketing.


Ok, I didn't know that. But still, I thought (at BigLaw) that you'd be too worn out to do anything else beyond the assignments your asked to do.

roranoa
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby roranoa » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:14 am

anon168 wrote:
roranoa wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
roranoa wrote:Do you know anyone (from your firm or from your school) who quit BigLaw and landed a professorship?
If you do, do you know how they did it?


Yes. Most: HYS (some T14s too)-->clerkship-->BigLaw for 2-3years-->professor (or VAP then prof)

A few worked for 6-10 years in a niche area, wrote during that time and then made the jump.

Wow. Where do you even find the time to write and publish articles while working in BigLaw?


Why wouldn't you have time?

Time spent on writing articles is often billable time at most biglaw firms. It's called business development and/or marketing.

I wanna hear what OP has to say about this.

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justonemoregame
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby justonemoregame » Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:49 am

OCI - Do you find it common for interviewees to over-sell their previous experience, and if so, is this something you consider annoying and/or offensive, or would you typically give someone the benefit of the doubt and appreciate their effort?

TooOld4This
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby TooOld4This » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:21 am

anon168 wrote:
roranoa wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
roranoa wrote:Do you know anyone (from your firm or from your school) who quit BigLaw and landed a professorship?
If you do, do you know how they did it?


Yes. Most: HYS (some T14s too)-->clerkship-->BigLaw for 2-3years-->professor (or VAP then prof)

A few worked for 6-10 years in a niche area, wrote during that time and then made the jump.

Wow. Where do you even find the time to write and publish articles while working in BigLaw?


Why wouldn't you have time?

Time spent on writing articles is often billable time at most biglaw firms. It's called business development and/or marketing.


I think this response is too flip. Firms handle writing differently. Even firms that have a code for writing treat it differently. Some will give some weight to these hours. At others, they don't count toward pace or bonus anymore than admin hours do. I don't know of any firms where you can turn down billable work because you are working on an article. At best, writing is something you can do instead of surfing Facebook when you are slow. As I mentioned before, I think it is much easier to write if your practice is more specialized. There isn't a ton of academic fodder in standard litigation or corporate. This doesn't mean you can't write. It just means you aren't as likely to be able to leverage research from billable work.

TooOld4This
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby TooOld4This » Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:32 am

Anonymous User wrote:Do you have any friends who have gone in-house and regret it? If so, why do they regret it and what would they have done differently?


I don't know any that would do it differently. I think everyone gets grass is greener on the other side pangs sometimes. In-house isn't utopia. It has it's own set of issues. I think the key to not having regrets is to not be running from firm life when you leave, but rather going to something you find interesting. Ideally, you shouldn't leave the law firm setting until you have an idea of the path you want to cut on the other side. If you just take the first gets-me-out-of-firm-life job that comes along, you are much more likely to jump from frying pan to fire with less pay and fewer future options.

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:27 am

TooOld4This wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do you have any friends who have gone in-house and regret it? If so, why do they regret it and what would they have done differently?


I don't know any that would do it differently. I think everyone gets grass is greener on the other side pangs sometimes. In-house isn't utopia. It has it's own set of issues. I think the key to not having regrets is to not be running from firm life when you leave, but rather going to something you find interesting. Ideally, you shouldn't leave the law firm setting until you have an idea of the path you want to cut on the other side. If you just take the first gets-me-out-of-firm-life job that comes along, you are much more likely to jump from frying pan to fire with less pay and fewer future options.

Thank you. Fair points.

How does one really evaluate this? Personally, I want to go in-house because I know I will enjoy working with one client (or at least one group of clients under a parent company) more than the random one-off deals that I sometimes do. The clients that I work with on a day-to-day basis are my favorite - I really get to know them, their business and we can work strategically together. I feel like it allows me to operate at a higher level in many ways. Part of me wanting to jump is for pure lifestyle reasons. I see the partners grinding day in and day out. Very little control over their schedules (no real vacation or weekends). However, I also recognize it is really hard for me to envision what it will be like to be in-house.....that's the scary part. It's also hard to know when the timing is best in one's career. Firms provide excellent training...but at some point associates are fried and need to start a sustainable career path if they know they have no interest in being a partner........my fear is doing it too early and stunting my career growth. I'd rather endure short-term pain for long-term gain (no just monetarily - career satisfaction is just as important).

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:42 pm

TooOld4This wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Why wouldn't you have time?

Time spent on writing articles is often billable time at most biglaw firms. It's called business development and/or marketing.


I think this response is too flip. Firms handle writing differently. Even firms that have a code for writing treat it differently. Some will give some weight to these hours. At others, they don't count toward pace or bonus anymore than admin hours do. I don't know of any firms where you can turn down billable work because you are working on an article. At best, writing is something you can do instead of surfing Facebook when you are slow. As I mentioned before, I think it is much easier to write if your practice is more specialized. There isn't a ton of academic fodder in standard litigation or corporate. This doesn't mean you can't write. It just means you aren't as likely to be able to leverage research from billable work.


I think this response is generally correct. You'll get "credit" in some ways but it usually won't count as true "billable" time. Certainly a nice feather in your cap though, and most firms place some value on this sort of activity. But I think if you're truly trying to go the professor route it's effectively not possible to also be on the "partnership" track (unless you're already a partner). One or the other will automatically suffer. You'll need to carve out some "writing" time and make that pursuit your primary goal. Different firms / groups / etc. will make doing so more feasible.

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Do you have any friends who have gone in-house and regret it? If so, why do they regret it and what would they have done differently?


I don't know any that would do it differently. I think everyone gets grass is greener on the other side pangs sometimes. In-house isn't utopia. It has it's own set of issues. I think the key to not having regrets is to not be running from firm life when you leave, but rather going to something you find interesting. Ideally, you shouldn't leave the law firm setting until you have an idea of the path you want to cut on the other side. If you just take the first gets-me-out-of-firm-life job that comes along, you are much more likely to jump from frying pan to fire with less pay and fewer future options.

Thank you. Fair points.

How does one really evaluate this? Personally, I want to go in-house because I know I will enjoy working with one client (or at least one group of clients under a parent company) more than the random one-off deals that I sometimes do. The clients that I work with on a day-to-day basis are my favorite - I really get to know them, their business and we can work strategically together. I feel like it allows me to operate at a higher level in many ways. Part of me wanting to jump is for pure lifestyle reasons. I see the partners grinding day in and day out. Very little control over their schedules (no real vacation or weekends). However, I also recognize it is really hard for me to envision what it will be like to be in-house.....that's the scary part. It's also hard to know when the timing is best in one's career. Firms provide excellent training...but at some point associates are fried and need to start a sustainable career path if they know they have no interest in being a partner........my fear is doing it too early and stunting my career growth. I'd rather endure short-term pain for long-term gain (no just monetarily - career satisfaction is just as important).


I'd say the ones who were happiest at their new gigs were the ones who left for a specific job, rather than were fleeing and took the job they could get. Just like all firms, partnerships, etc., are not created equal, not all in-house jobs / companies are created equal. The people who did a lot of work for a client that stole them, or took a special opportunity, are much happier than those doing bank compliance.

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jun 28, 2013 8:46 pm

If you have a minute at some point before Tuesday to weigh in on my bidlist thread, I would really appreciate it. Someone mentioned you had been really helpful with theirs.

How do you treat upward grade trends when it's the typical "I wasn't used to the exam style, but got substantially better at it the second go around?"

Also, if people have some interest in specific subsets of general corporate (Cap markets, M&A, private equity, etc) but their basis for that is simply research/talking to partners and associates in those areas etc., is it good to vocalize these at the interview stage or is it better to go in with the super flexible: "interested in both corp and lit, but leaning corp"

Thanks

roranoa
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby roranoa » Fri Jun 28, 2013 10:20 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Why wouldn't you have time?

Time spent on writing articles is often billable time at most biglaw firms. It's called business development and/or marketing.


I think this response is too flip. Firms handle writing differently. Even firms that have a code for writing treat it differently. Some will give some weight to these hours. At others, they don't count toward pace or bonus anymore than admin hours do. I don't know of any firms where you can turn down billable work because you are working on an article. At best, writing is something you can do instead of surfing Facebook when you are slow. As I mentioned before, I think it is much easier to write if your practice is more specialized. There isn't a ton of academic fodder in standard litigation or corporate. This doesn't mean you can't write. It just means you aren't as likely to be able to leverage research from billable work.


I think this response is generally correct. You'll get "credit" in some ways but it usually won't count as true "billable" time. Certainly a nice feather in your cap though, and most firms place some value on this sort of activity. But I think if you're truly trying to go the professor route it's effectively not possible to also be on the "partnership" track (unless you're already a partner). One or the other will automatically suffer. You'll need to carve out some "writing" time and make that pursuit your primary goal. Different firms / groups / etc. will make doing so more feasible.

So, going back to my original question, have you seen people do this at your firm and eventually become professors?

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:If you have a minute at some point before Tuesday to weigh in on my bidlist thread, I would really appreciate it. Someone mentioned you had been really helpful with theirs.

How do you treat upward grade trends when it's the typical "I wasn't used to the exam style, but got substantially better at it the second go around?"

Also, if people have some interest in specific subsets of general corporate (Cap markets, M&A, private equity, etc) but their basis for that is simply research/talking to partners and associates in those areas etc., is it good to vocalize these at the interview stage or is it better to go in with the super flexible: "interested in both corp and lit, but leaning corp"

Thanks


threw a couple thoughts in there. upward grade trends for us are effectively meaningless - maybe if you got to truly straight As second semester after a mediocre first semester and the grades are all in core classes and you wow me i could go to bat for you...but we're pretty tough on hitting our thresholds.

if you go specific practice groups you should have plenty of reserach and be able to tie to specifics about the firm

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Sat Jun 29, 2013 9:41 am

roranoa wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
TooOld4This wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Why wouldn't you have time?

Time spent on writing articles is often billable time at most biglaw firms. It's called business development and/or marketing.


I think this response is too flip. Firms handle writing differently. Even firms that have a code for writing treat it differently. Some will give some weight to these hours. At others, they don't count toward pace or bonus anymore than admin hours do. I don't know of any firms where you can turn down billable work because you are working on an article. At best, writing is something you can do instead of surfing Facebook when you are slow. As I mentioned before, I think it is much easier to write if your practice is more specialized. There isn't a ton of academic fodder in standard litigation or corporate. This doesn't mean you can't write. It just means you aren't as likely to be able to leverage research from billable work.


I think this response is generally correct. You'll get "credit" in some ways but it usually won't count as true "billable" time. Certainly a nice feather in your cap though, and most firms place some value on this sort of activity. But I think if you're truly trying to go the professor route it's effectively not possible to also be on the "partnership" track (unless you're already a partner). One or the other will automatically suffer. You'll need to carve out some "writing" time and make that pursuit your primary goal. Different firms / groups / etc. will make doing so more feasible.

So, going back to my original question, have you seen people do this at your firm and eventually become professors?


not that i recall. more people who clerked, worked a year or so then left. i can think of a couple of those but not who worked w/me

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Summerz
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Summerz » Sat Jun 29, 2013 12:52 pm

How long is it before the firm EXPECTS an associate to bring in a little rain? And what would be considered a ($) passable minimum?

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jun 29, 2013 1:20 pm

I'm a rising 2L in the top 5% at CCN. I interviewed for some 1L SA positions at firms in the V25-75 range and didn't get them, but came very close ("it was down to two people and we went with the other guy" kind of stuff). I have a few of those firms on my list for OCI. Is there a way to contact the partners with whom I felt I had a good rapport at those firms with my resume, transcript, etc., to let them know I'm trying to get an interview with them and see if they can pull for me? I recognize that I didn't get these jobs, so I have only limited reasons to think they would pull for me, but I thought it might be worth a shot. Thanks for this thread and in advance for any advice you can give!

(Apologies if this question has been answered; I looked but didn't find anything yet)

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:55 am

Summerz wrote:How long is it before the firm EXPECTS an associate to bring in a little rain? And what would be considered a ($) passable minimum?


depends on the firm. if you're at a big firm answer is probably never re: independent rain as an associate. but you should be a key member of one or more client teams by senior associate level

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a rising 2L in the top 5% at CCN. I interviewed for some 1L SA positions at firms in the V25-75 range and didn't get them, but came very close ("it was down to two people and we went with the other guy" kind of stuff). I have a few of those firms on my list for OCI. Is there a way to contact the partners with whom I felt I had a good rapport at those firms with my resume, transcript, etc., to let them know I'm trying to get an interview with them and see if they can pull for me? I recognize that I didn't get these jobs, so I have only limited reasons to think they would pull for me, but I thought it might be worth a shot. Thanks for this thread and in advance for any advice you can give!

(Apologies if this question has been answered; I looked but didn't find anything yet)


Sure, especially because otherwise those firms are going to think there's zero chance you'll go to them. reaching out means you're at least theoretically really interested.

anon168
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Sun Jun 30, 2013 1:45 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Summerz wrote:How long is it before the firm EXPECTS an associate to bring in a little rain? And what would be considered a ($) passable minimum?


depends on the firm. if you're at a big firm answer is probably never re: independent rain as an associate. but you should be a key member of one or more client teams by senior associate level


Let me add to this.

If you're at a V10 type of firm, or even V20, most of the significant clients that collectively make up something like 2/3 or 3/4 of the firm's overall revenue are institutional. DPW, for example, isn't going to really expect anyone (partner or associate) to bring in a brand "new" client like Time Warner or GE, for example.

If, and when, an opportunity like that does come up (e.g. a F500 client is looking for outside counsel that it has never worked with before), the firm will generally make the pitch as a collective and probably assemble a team to do a beauty contest, etc.

What a firm will generally expect an associate to do in terms of rainmaking is to (1) either maintain and strengthen current relationships or (2) generate additional business from existing clients. So, let's take No. 2, as an example. Let's say you've been working on a case for GM, and it's a breach of contract case. After the case is over, perhaps because you've done such a bang-up job, the GC you've been working for comes back to you for additional guidance or advice on a trademark case, and you're able to guide the GC to the right people in your firm's IP dept and they do the work. This is the kind of stuff the firm will expect out of you probably around post 4 years out of law school.
Last edited by anon168 on Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Jun 30, 2013 2:11 pm

Would you look down on a candidate knowing that they used TLS?

Like, they use an example answer you've given on this thread, or they're decked out in the usual TLS gear at OCI (BB suit, Park Avenues, red/blue tie, etc)

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:06 pm

anon168 wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
Summerz wrote:How long is it before the firm EXPECTS an associate to bring in a little rain? And what would be considered a ($) passable minimum?


depends on the firm. if you're at a big firm answer is probably never re: independent rain as an associate. but you should be a key member of one or more client teams by senior associate level


Let me add to this.

If you're at a V10 type of firm, or even V20, most of the significant clients that collectively make up something like 2/3 or 3/4 of the firm's overall revenue are institutional. DPW, for example, isn't going to really expect anyone (partner or associate) to bring in a brand "new" client like Time Warner or GE, for example.

If, and when, an opportunity like that does come up (e.g. a F500 client is looking for outside counsel that it has never worked with before), the firm will generally make the pitch as a collective and probably assemble a team to do a beauty contest, etc.

What a firm will generally expect an associate to do in terms of rainmaking is to (1) either maintain and strengthen current relationships or (2) generate additional business from existing clients. So, let's take No. 2, as an example. Let's say you've been working on a case for GM, and it's a breach of contract case. After the case is over, perhaps because you've done such a bang-up job, the GC you've been working for comes back to you for additional guidance or advice on a trademark case, and you're able to guide the GC to the right people in your firm's IP dept and they do the work. This is the kind of stuff the firm will expect out of you probably around post 4 years out of law school.


this is right

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Would you look down on a candidate knowing that they used TLS?

Like, they use an example answer you've given on this thread, or they're decked out in the usual TLS gear at OCI (BB suit, Park Avenues, red/blue tie, etc)


nah. though i think someone did once parrot my words back to me and it was weird.

the gear would be utterly unnoticed by me

roranoa
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby roranoa » Mon Jul 01, 2013 10:44 am

itbdvorm wrote:nah. though i think someone did once parrot my words back to me and it was weird.

the gear would be utterly unnoticed by me

Did you hire him? :D




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