V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

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roranoa
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:18 am

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby roranoa » Sat Oct 06, 2012 8:43 pm

anon168 wrote:
roranoa wrote:
anon168 wrote:
roranoa wrote:Did you have really old (like, 31-35 maybe 36) peers when you started at your firm?
How many have stuck around and are they doing well despite their "old" age?


Not the OP, but let me take a stab.

At my previous biglaw firm, the older first year associates were generally treated no different by the partners, or their other peer associates. The biggest issue with older associates was with the older associates themselves -- they often had a difficult time taking supervision from midlevel associates who were sometimes younger than they were.


Ok, other than that, was there any other problem? For example, maybe, did they lack physical endurance to burn the oil? Or maybe they couldn't fit in conversations with their younger peers?

Other than having an attitude for taking orders from someone way younger than you what problems do you think the older guys had problems with?

Also can you tell me about how they fared at your firm? Did they perform well? Did they get good reviews? Are at least some of them on partner track? These kind of things.


Again, everything here is anecdotal ...

No problem with the hours (although I remember one person had a kid at home and that sometimes presented a problem, but I don't think that's unique to "older" associates).

Sometimes the older associates would have a hard time fitting in, esp. if they were something like 5-10 years older than your typical first year K-JD associate. We make Seinfeld references, you make Jersey Shore references -- that kind of thing.

I don't know if they got good reviews because, y'know, those things are generally confidential, but I don't their age necessarily was a factor in their reviews -- either good or bad.

Are they on partnership track? I've been out of my V5 firm for long now, I honestly don't know what happened to them, and I left before it was really an issue we talked about. But I don't think our firm viewed age (within certain reasonable limits of course) as an impediment to partnership. I mean, if you're a 50 year first year, obviously things are going to be a bit different.

Hope that helps. PM me if you want to discuss something in more detail.

Good luck.


Thanks for the reply I appreciate it!

OP, can you tell us what it's like with the old associates at your firm?

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:15 am

How much sleep do you get during a typical week/weekends? How much when you're slammed? I have a fear that my inability to tolerate caffeine may inhibit me from being efficient and lasting in biglaw unless I can count on at least 6-7 hours of sleep a night.

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:51 pm

roranoa wrote:
anon168 wrote:Again, everything here is anecdotal ...

No problem with the hours (although I remember one person had a kid at home and that sometimes presented a problem, but I don't think that's unique to "older" associates).

Sometimes the older associates would have a hard time fitting in, esp. if they were something like 5-10 years older than your typical first year K-JD associate. We make Seinfeld references, you make Jersey Shore references -- that kind of thing.

I don't know if they got good reviews because, y'know, those things are generally confidential, but I don't their age necessarily was a factor in their reviews -- either good or bad.

Are they on partnership track? I've been out of my V5 firm for long now, I honestly don't know what happened to them, and I left before it was really an issue we talked about. But I don't think our firm viewed age (within certain reasonable limits of course) as an impediment to partnership. I mean, if you're a 50 year first year, obviously things are going to be a bit different.

Hope that helps. PM me if you want to discuss something in more detail.

Good luck.


Thanks for the reply I appreciate it!

OP, can you tell us what it's like with the old associates at your firm?


i'll basically echo anon's comments - sounds about right

itbdvorm
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Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:52 pm

Anonymous User wrote:How much sleep do you get during a typical week/weekends? How much when you're slammed? I have a fear that my inability to tolerate caffeine may inhibit me from being efficient and lasting in biglaw unless I can count on at least 6-7 hours of sleep a night.


not enough, on both counts. probably 6-9 on regular nights, 3-6 on bad ones? true all-ngihters are rare.

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Oct 09, 2012 11:56 pm

What's your recommendation on what to do if you get thrown under the bus, undeservingly, by an ambitious senior associate (or anyone else)?

Thanks

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 12:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:What's your recommendation on what to do if you get thrown under the bus, undeservingly, by an ambitious senior associate (or anyone else)?

Thanks


Well, the best thing to do is to avoid it in the first place.

That being said, if it's already happened, then you have to minimize the damage.

You can do it one of two ways.

One, is to simply own up to the mistake and essentially beg for forgiveness and make it clear you've learned your lesson and that you have grown as a person and a lawyer as a result of it.

Two, is to take cover with another partner that has your back (assuming you've developed that kind of relationship, which is one of the first things you should do as a first year -- back to my mantra of "kiss the right ass, kiss it the right way, wash, rinse and repeat"). In other words, cash in your brownie points.

Of course, you can and should do both, if possible.

Short of that, dust off the resume and call a HH.

roranoa
Posts: 588
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby roranoa » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:52 am

itbdvorm wrote:
roranoa wrote:
anon168 wrote:Again, everything here is anecdotal ...

No problem with the hours (although I remember one person had a kid at home and that sometimes presented a problem, but I don't think that's unique to "older" associates).

Sometimes the older associates would have a hard time fitting in, esp. if they were something like 5-10 years older than your typical first year K-JD associate. We make Seinfeld references, you make Jersey Shore references -- that kind of thing.

I don't know if they got good reviews because, y'know, those things are generally confidential, but I don't their age necessarily was a factor in their reviews -- either good or bad.

Are they on partnership track? I've been out of my V5 firm for long now, I honestly don't know what happened to them, and I left before it was really an issue we talked about. But I don't think our firm viewed age (within certain reasonable limits of course) as an impediment to partnership. I mean, if you're a 50 year first year, obviously things are going to be a bit different.

Hope that helps. PM me if you want to discuss something in more detail.

Good luck.


Thanks for the reply I appreciate it!

OP, can you tell us what it's like with the old associates at your firm?


i'll basically echo anon's comments - sounds about right


Can you at least tell me whether the older associates(30-35) that started with you are doing as well as you are? (on partner track?)

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:01 pm

roranoa wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
roranoa wrote:
anon168 wrote:Again, everything here is anecdotal ...

No problem with the hours (although I remember one person had a kid at home and that sometimes presented a problem, but I don't think that's unique to "older" associates).

Sometimes the older associates would have a hard time fitting in, esp. if they were something like 5-10 years older than your typical first year K-JD associate. We make Seinfeld references, you make Jersey Shore references -- that kind of thing.

I don't know if they got good reviews because, y'know, those things are generally confidential, but I don't their age necessarily was a factor in their reviews -- either good or bad.

Are they on partnership track? I've been out of my V5 firm for long now, I honestly don't know what happened to them, and I left before it was really an issue we talked about. But I don't think our firm viewed age (within certain reasonable limits of course) as an impediment to partnership. I mean, if you're a 50 year first year, obviously things are going to be a bit different.

Hope that helps. PM me if you want to discuss something in more detail.

Good luck.


Thanks for the reply I appreciate it!

OP, can you tell us what it's like with the old associates at your firm?


i'll basically echo anon's comments - sounds about right


Can you at least tell me whether the older associates(30-35) that started with you are doing as well as you are? (on partner track?)


Trying not to sound like a jackass, but few, if any, associates are "doing as well as I am" (or are even here). I don't think age is the definitive predictor. There are people who take a few years off then go make partner. Others leave. Depends on person.

itbdvorm
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:01 pm

anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's your recommendation on what to do if you get thrown under the bus, undeservingly, by an ambitious senior associate (or anyone else)?

Thanks


Well, the best thing to do is to avoid it in the first place.

That being said, if it's already happened, then you have to minimize the damage.

You can do it one of two ways.

One, is to simply own up to the mistake and essentially beg for forgiveness and make it clear you've learned your lesson and that you have grown as a person and a lawyer as a result of it.

Two, is to take cover with another partner that has your back (assuming you've developed that kind of relationship, which is one of the first things you should do as a first year -- back to my mantra of "kiss the right ass, kiss it the right way, wash, rinse and repeat"). In other words, cash in your brownie points.

Of course, you can and should do both, if possible.

Short of that, dust off the resume and call a HH.


Agreed. And document everything you can.

run26.2
Posts: 897
Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:35 am

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby run26.2 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:18 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's your recommendation on what to do if you get thrown under the bus, undeservingly, by an ambitious senior associate (or anyone else)?

Thanks


Well, the best thing to do is to avoid it in the first place.

That being said, if it's already happened, then you have to minimize the damage.

You can do it one of two ways.

One, is to simply own up to the mistake and essentially beg for forgiveness and make it clear you've learned your lesson and that you have grown as a person and a lawyer as a result of it.

Two, is to take cover with another partner that has your back (assuming you've developed that kind of relationship, which is one of the first things you should do as a first year -- back to my mantra of "kiss the right ass, kiss it the right way, wash, rinse and repeat"). In other words, cash in your brownie points.

Of course, you can and should do both, if possible.

Short of that, dust off the resume and call a HH.


Agreed. And document everything you can.

How would you recommend responding in the case where you were the scapegoat, i.e. you did not actually make the mistake but were blamed for it?

AP-375
Posts: 413
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby AP-375 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 4:49 pm

anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's your recommendation on what to do if you get thrown under the bus, undeservingly, by an ambitious senior associate (or anyone else)?

Thanks


Well, the best thing to do is to avoid it in the first place.

That being said, if it's already happened, then you have to minimize the damage.

You can do it one of two ways.

One, is to simply own up to the mistake and essentially beg for forgiveness and make it clear you've learned your lesson and that you have grown as a person and a lawyer as a result of it.

Two, is to take cover with another partner that has your back (assuming you've developed that kind of relationship, which is one of the first things you should do as a first year -- back to my mantra of "kiss the right ass, kiss it the right way, wash, rinse and repeat"). In other words, cash in your brownie points.

Of course, you can and should do both, if possible.

Short of that, dust off the resume and call a HH.


Sorry for belaboring this issue, but can you explain a little more about what you mean by "take cover with a partner"? I'm trying to figure out how you might "cash in brownie points" without coming across in a really bad way.
Thanks.

anon168
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Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:44 pm

run26.2 wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's your recommendation on what to do if you get thrown under the bus, undeservingly, by an ambitious senior associate (or anyone else)?

Thanks


Well, the best thing to do is to avoid it in the first place.

That being said, if it's already happened, then you have to minimize the damage.

You can do it one of two ways.

One, is to simply own up to the mistake and essentially beg for forgiveness and make it clear you've learned your lesson and that you have grown as a person and a lawyer as a result of it.

Two, is to take cover with another partner that has your back (assuming you've developed that kind of relationship, which is one of the first things you should do as a first year -- back to my mantra of "kiss the right ass, kiss it the right way, wash, rinse and repeat"). In other words, cash in your brownie points.

Of course, you can and should do both, if possible.

Short of that, dust off the resume and call a HH.


Agreed. And document everything you can.

How would you recommend responding in the case where you were the scapegoat, i.e. you did not actually make the mistake but were blamed for it?


How is your question any different from the question from the original anon?

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 5:49 pm

AP-375 wrote:
anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's your recommendation on what to do if you get thrown under the bus, undeservingly, by an ambitious senior associate (or anyone else)?

Thanks


Well, the best thing to do is to avoid it in the first place.

That being said, if it's already happened, then you have to minimize the damage.

You can do it one of two ways.

One, is to simply own up to the mistake and essentially beg for forgiveness and make it clear you've learned your lesson and that you have grown as a person and a lawyer as a result of it.

Two, is to take cover with another partner that has your back (assuming you've developed that kind of relationship, which is one of the first things you should do as a first year -- back to my mantra of "kiss the right ass, kiss it the right way, wash, rinse and repeat"). In other words, cash in your brownie points.

Of course, you can and should do both, if possible.

Short of that, dust off the resume and call a HH.


Sorry for belaboring this issue, but can you explain a little more about what you mean by "take cover with a partner"? I'm trying to figure out how you might "cash in brownie points" without coming across in a really bad way.
Thanks.


Have the partner go to bat for you.

Here's an obvious example. Let's say sr. associate throws you under the bus, and the partner (Partner X) on the case now thinks you're a numbnut. Have the partner who you've developed a rapport with go and talk to Partner A to smooth things out (as in, "hey, you know that associate that was working on your case, he's really smart and a capable young attorney, and I think there was some sort of misunderstanding. Give him another chance." Same dynamic can work come review time. I don't know why or how that would come off "in a really bad way." I've done it myself for other associates (but only those that I liked).

run26.2
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Joined: Thu Jul 01, 2010 1:35 am

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby run26.2 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:28 pm

anon168 wrote:How is your question any different from the question from the original anon?


Based on your question, it's not. I think we are understanding the question the same way. I wanted to clarify that you weren't interpreting the question as something like the mistake was insignificant but the senior associate really trashed the junior for it, as opposed to the junior really didn't make the mistake but the senior did.

I was a bit surprised to hear the counsel that someone should own up to a mistake that person did not make.

anon168
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:56 pm

run26.2 wrote:
anon168 wrote:How is your question any different from the question from the original anon?


Based on your question, it's not. I think we are understanding the question the same way. I wanted to clarify that you weren't interpreting the question as something like the mistake was insignificant but the senior associate really trashed the junior for it, as opposed to the junior really didn't make the mistake but the senior did.

I was a bit surprised to hear the counsel that someone should own up to a mistake that person did not make.


You will rarely ever win a pissing match with someone with more authority than you. And if you do, more often than not it's going to be a Pyrrhic victory at best. Sometimes you just have to cut your losses to lose the battle but hopefully survive the war.

roranoa
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby roranoa » Wed Oct 10, 2012 11:33 pm

itbdvorm wrote:Trying not to sound like a jackass, but few, if any, associates are "doing as well as I am" (or are even here). I don't think age is the definitive predictor. There are people who take a few years off then go make partner. Others leave. Depends on person.


Thanks for the reply. You don't sound like a jackass at all. It's actually kinda awesome to know that we're getting advice from someone who's at the top of their game.

This is just a fleeting question, how many of your peers that started with you are still at the firm?(If you don't know for sure, how many do you think?) And the one's who left.....do you know what some of them are doing?

itbdvorm
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Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:25 pm

roranoa wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:Trying not to sound like a jackass, but few, if any, associates are "doing as well as I am" (or are even here). I don't think age is the definitive predictor. There are people who take a few years off then go make partner. Others leave. Depends on person.


Thanks for the reply. You don't sound like a jackass at all. It's actually kinda awesome to know that we're getting advice from someone who's at the top of their game.

This is just a fleeting question, how many of your peers that started with you are still at the firm?(If you don't know for sure, how many do you think?) And the one's who left.....do you know what some of them are doing?


only a handful left at this point. doing all sorts of things. some in-house, some government, some academia, some out of the law altogether...

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:40 pm

Is it fairly easy as a mid level to lateral from a litigation group in a V15 in a major market (DC/NY) to a regional firm in a much smaller market in another state? Specifically thinking about trying to lateral to where my family all lives, in a small-ish secondary market.

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it fairly easy as a mid level to lateral from a litigation group in a V15 in a major market (DC/NY) to a regional firm in a much smaller market in another state? Specifically thinking about trying to lateral to where my family all lives, in a small-ish secondary market.


emphasis on "fairly". shouldn't be too tough though you likely will of course need to take the bar again. might take awhile.

doing_it_in_a_car
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby doing_it_in_a_car » Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:41 pm

Hi there,

I'm a 0L graduate working as a paralegal intending to apply to law school next fall. That means I have about 2 years before entering law school. My GPA is set and I'm happy with my LSAT. So apart from what I can do to get into the best law school possible, what can I do now to maximize my competitiveness for biglaw? E.g. would you recommend actively networking and requesting informational interviews from alums of my school at prestigious law firms? Is there anything in particular I can do in my spare time that would look attractive on my future 2L resume?

Thanks!

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:09 pm

Not sure if this has already been covered, but looking for some insight:

Just landed dream job in secondary market, and am currently considering "visiting" the market's TT school for my third year. (So, packing up and heading out for my 3L year.)

I would be giving up a year of law review, and some scholarship money, but the lower COL and ease of mind would make this a viable decision.

Would this decision have an adverse impact on my full-time offer potential after my SA?

roranoa
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:18 am

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby roranoa » Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:38 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
roranoa wrote:
itbdvorm wrote:Trying not to sound like a jackass, but few, if any, associates are "doing as well as I am" (or are even here). I don't think age is the definitive predictor. There are people who take a few years off then go make partner. Others leave. Depends on person.


Thanks for the reply. You don't sound like a jackass at all. It's actually kinda awesome to know that we're getting advice from someone who's at the top of their game.

This is just a fleeting question, how many of your peers that started with you are still at the firm?(If you don't know for sure, how many do you think?) And the one's who left.....do you know what some of them are doing?


only a handful left at this point. doing all sorts of things. some in-house, some government, some academia, some out of the law altogether...


uh....do you mean that only a handful left the firm or only a handful are still at the firm?
And btw, what year associate are you?

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Is it fairly easy as a mid level to lateral from a litigation group in a V15 in a major market (DC/NY) to a regional firm in a much smaller market in another state? Specifically thinking about trying to lateral to where my family all lives, in a small-ish secondary market.


Impossible to say. Much will depend on practice area and what you have ACTUALLY done at your previous firm (than the mere fact that it was a V whatever ranked firm).

To make sure you are as marketable as possible as a lateral try to develop portable litigation skills and good client communication abilities. Those will serve you well when I comes time to exit biglaw.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:46 pm

Do you guys ever hire clerks (federal, not COA) who didn't summer with you? If so, any advice on timing, procedure, etc? I'm a clerk who got no offered when his fim went under 2L summer, so I'm wondering when I ought to start thinking about job applications. My plan was to start around January (term is up August).

anon168
Posts: 920
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 10:36 pm

Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Do you guys ever hire clerks (federal, not COA) who didn't summer with you? If so, any advice on timing, procedure, etc? I'm a clerk who got no offered when his fim went under 2L summer, so I'm wondering when I ought to start thinking about job applications. My plan was to start around January (term is up August).


My firm sent letters to clerks. If you do not receive any the apply the summer before you want to start.




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