V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

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Myself
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Postby Myself » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:04 pm

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clone22
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby clone22 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 6:10 pm

roranoa wrote:How do lawyers who are single (that is, not in a relationship) meet other people if there so busy all the time (working 80-90 hours a week)?

Can you tell us any stories?


they cry themselves to sleep alone

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:13 pm

Just had a CB with my favorite firm. I think I clicked pretty well with a few of the people, so I was thinking about sending a thank you note or two. However, one of the interviewers made a big point about how they are a "no BS" firm that doesn't bother with formality, gestures, or typical rituals. Would sending thank you notes make me seem like a bad fit?

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dingbat
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby dingbat » Sat Sep 08, 2012 7:21 pm

clone22 wrote:
roranoa wrote:How do lawyers who are single (that is, not in a relationship) meet other people if there so busy all the time (working 80-90 hours a week)?

Can you tell us any stories?


they cry themselves to sleep alone

good answer to a bullshit question

anon168
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:06 pm

ajax adonis wrote:Man, I'm sure you've been asked this already, but it's hard to search for it in this thread because a lot of people tell you "thank you."

But I was wondering, how do you feel about thank you notes after screeners? Do you think of someone more highly/less if they do send it? How about if they don't send it?

How would you personally approach it today if you were an applicant?

Thank you.


I have never cared for any thank you notes that I've received -- either at OCI or CB. In fact, more often than not, thank you notes can hurt more than help your chances.

In fact, I can't ever recalling ding-ing someone because they didn't send a thank you note; and I know I never recommended an offer or a CB because of a thank you note.

And really, when you think about it. What the hell are you thanking them for? It's their job to do the OCI or the CB. They either elected to be part of recruiting or were told to do it. And they weren't at OCI just for you.
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anon168
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Sat Sep 08, 2012 11:07 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Just had a CB with my favorite firm. I think I clicked pretty well with a few of the people, so I was thinking about sending a thank you note or two. However, one of the interviewers made a big point about how they are a "no BS" firm that doesn't bother with formality, gestures, or typical rituals. Would sending thank you notes make me seem like a bad fit?


See viewtopic.php?f=23&t=163550&start=1475#p5864421

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canesfan1986
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby canesfan1986 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:03 am

Over callback lunch, two partners basically told me that they would frown upon people not sending thank you notes. Really, if a firm isn't going to hire you because you sent a thank you note, is that a place that you really want to work for?

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Sheffield
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Sheffield » Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:17 am

If the interviewer is cold/stilted, I pass on a thank you note. If I am not certain about the connection, I let it slide. However, if there was a genuine connection, I think a thank you note makes plenty of sense.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby rouser » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:04 am

ajax adonis wrote:Man, I'm sure you've been asked this already, but it's hard to search for it in this thread because a lot of people tell you "thank you."

But I was wondering, how do you feel about thank you notes after screeners? Do you think of someone more highly/less if they do send it? How about if they don't send it?

How would you personally approach it today if you were an applicant?

Thank you.


itbdvorm wrote:a thank you letter / email to me is almost certainly coming after I've made my decision

jd20132013
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby jd20132013 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 12:41 pm

how often are you able to take a Sunday and just relax? I don't mind working weekends at all obviously but sometimes you just need a day to unwind.

anon168
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 3:01 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
anon168 wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:Man, I'm sure you've been asked this already, but it's hard to search for it in this thread because a lot of people tell you "thank you."

But I was wondering, how do you feel about thank you notes after screeners? Do you think of someone more highly/less if they do send it? How about if they don't send it?

How would you personally approach it today if you were an applicant?

Thank you.


I have never cared for any thank you notes that I've received -- either at OCI or CB. In fact, more often than not, thank you notes can hurt more than help your chances.

In fact, I can't ever recalling ding-ing someone because they didn't send a thank you note; and I know I never recommended an offer or a CB because of a thank you note.

And really, when you think about it. What the hell are you thanking them for? It's their job to do the OCI or the CB. They either elected to be part of recruiting or were told to do it. And they weren't at OCI just for you.


In what ways have thank yous hurt?


Typos, saying dumb/awkward things, sending thank you notes to multiple people with the same exact message.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:01 pm

anon168 wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:
anon168 wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:Man, I'm sure you've been asked this already, but it's hard to search for it in this thread because a lot of people tell you "thank you."

But I was wondering, how do you feel about thank you notes after screeners? Do you think of someone more highly/less if they do send it? How about if they don't send it?

How would you personally approach it today if you were an applicant?

Thank you.


I have never cared for any thank you notes that I've received -- either at OCI or CB. In fact, more often than not, thank you notes can hurt more than help your chances.

In fact, I can't ever recalling ding-ing someone because they didn't send a thank you note; and I know I never recommended an offer or a CB because of a thank you note.

And really, when you think about it. What the hell are you thanking them for? It's their job to do the OCI or the CB. They either elected to be part of recruiting or were told to do it. And they weren't at OCI just for you.


In what ways have thank yous hurt?


Typos, saying dumb/awkward things, sending thank you notes to multiple people with the same exact message.


Do people actually take the time to compare thank you notes? I can see them not being helpful. And maybe even being hurtful if they have typos or are blatantly generic. BUT, that some people would compare them with their colleagues seems a bit far-fetched to me. And frankly, pathetic.

FWIW, this comes from someone who (1) did send thank you notes to most people (so long as the interview went ok), and (2) was pretty formulaic/generic in substance....so maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule.

That said, I just don't see how a polite "thank you for taking the time to meet with me" (recognizing that they're basically doing you a favor) could hurt. And if it does, that place sounds awful. And to clarify, I mean following CBs only.

anon168
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby anon168 » Sun Sep 09, 2012 10:12 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Do people actually take the time to compare thank you notes? I can see them not being helpful. And maybe even being hurtful if they have typos or are blatantly generic. BUT, that some people would compare them with their colleagues seems a bit far-fetched to me. And frankly, pathetic.

FWIW, this comes from someone who (1) did send thank you notes to most people (so long as the interview went ok), and (2) was pretty formulaic/generic in substance....so maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule.

That said, I just don't see how a polite "thank you for taking the time to meet with me" (recognizing that they're basically doing you a favor) could hurt. And if it does, that place sounds awful. And to clarify, I mean following CBs only.


Like I said, it can only hurt because there's only downside; no upside.

I have never recommended an offer, or a CB, because of a thank you note. In fact, at a CB, my recommendation for you as a SA is finished probably less than 20 minutes after you've left my office. At an OCI, by the time you walk out of that conf room I've already decided whether or not you should get a CB.

So, no, a thank you note has little relevance.

The only time I can think of where a thank you note may help you, or have an intended effect, is when you are pursuing a lateral position and the firm's committee will meet following a round of interviews. It's one way to leave a further lasting impression.

(As to how we knew the same message was sent to the entire firm? The candidate, IIRC, was guilty of a malapropism which someone brought up and then we all went back and actually opened up the stupid thank you note envelope and wouldn't you know it, it was the same exact message. Most of us hadn't even opened up the envelope, and wouldn't have but for the word-smithing gaff.)

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:23 am

ajax adonis wrote:Man, I'm sure you've been asked this already, but it's hard to search for it in this thread because a lot of people tell you "thank you."

But I was wondering, how do you feel about thank you notes after screeners? Do you think of someone more highly/less if they do send it? How about if they don't send it?

How would you personally approach it today if you were an applicant?

Thank you.

Not the original poster, but thank you notes can only help you, especially in this economy. Send them in a timely fashion (same day or next day) too so your interviewers receive them before writing an evaluation of you.

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Flips88
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Flips88 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:Man, I'm sure you've been asked this already, but it's hard to search for it in this thread because a lot of people tell you "thank you."

But I was wondering, how do you feel about thank you notes after screeners? Do you think of someone more highly/less if they do send it? How about if they don't send it?

How would you personally approach it today if you were an applicant?

Thank you.

Not the original poster, but thank you notes can only help you, especially in this economy. Send them in a timely fashion (same day or next day) too so your interviewers receive them before writing an evaluation of you.

are you an oci or callback interviewer like the couple posters above who say it doesn't matter?

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:43 am

Flips88 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
ajax adonis wrote:Man, I'm sure you've been asked this already, but it's hard to search for it in this thread because a lot of people tell you "thank you."

But I was wondering, how do you feel about thank you notes after screeners? Do you think of someone more highly/less if they do send it? How about if they don't send it?

How would you personally approach it today if you were an applicant?

Thank you.

Not the original poster, but thank you notes can only help you, especially in this economy. Send them in a timely fashion (same day or next day) too so your interviewers receive them before writing an evaluation of you.

are you an oci or callback interviewer like the couple posters above who say it doesn't matter?

I'm an interviewer at both and I agree that thank you notes are really important. Within two days of each interview, I review and rank those I met with. Thank you notes make a difference in how I rank because if you can't be bothered to say thank you after I took time out of my day to interview you (and usually, interviews mean I am going home later in the night since work doesn't do itself), then I might not be bothered to give you the job over those who do say thank you. Just created a thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=193519

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Tue Sep 11, 2012 11:16 am

anon168 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Do people actually take the time to compare thank you notes? I can see them not being helpful. And maybe even being hurtful if they have typos or are blatantly generic. BUT, that some people would compare them with their colleagues seems a bit far-fetched to me. And frankly, pathetic.

FWIW, this comes from someone who (1) did send thank you notes to most people (so long as the interview went ok), and (2) was pretty formulaic/generic in substance....so maybe I'm the exception that proves the rule.

That said, I just don't see how a polite "thank you for taking the time to meet with me" (recognizing that they're basically doing you a favor) could hurt. And if it does, that place sounds awful. And to clarify, I mean following CBs only.


Like I said, it can only hurt because there's only downside; no upside.

I have never recommended an offer, or a CB, because of a thank you note. In fact, at a CB, my recommendation for you as a SA is finished probably less than 20 minutes after you've left my office. At an OCI, by the time you walk out of that conf room I've already decided whether or not you should get a CB.

So, no, a thank you note has little relevance.

The only time I can think of where a thank you note may help you, or have an intended effect, is when you are pursuing a lateral position and the firm's committee will meet following a round of interviews. It's one way to leave a further lasting impression.

(As to how we knew the same message was sent to the entire firm? The candidate, IIRC, was guilty of a malapropism which someone brought up and then we all went back and actually opened up the stupid thank you note envelope and wouldn't you know it, it was the same exact message. Most of us hadn't even opened up the envelope, and wouldn't have but for the word-smithing gaff.)


I generally agree with this (and have had very similar experiences). It's not that I don't like them - it's that they generally won't come fast enough to matter.

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:53 pm

because a few people have been asking me privately, let me know if you'd like me to weigh in on decisions (publicly or privately). will give thoughts to the extent i know.

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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 14, 2012 9:00 pm

Candidate readily accepts your CB, but before your CB occurs candidate receives a good offer and is 99% sure they will accept it. I imagine this happens frequently. Do you prefer that the candidate inform you about this development before your CB?

I guess that one possibility is that you still might want a shot at the candidate, the other possibility is that it could be a waste of your time. From the candidate perspective, meeting with you might prove to be beneficial [to the candidate] somewhere down the road.

fumagalli
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby fumagalli » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:05 pm

clone22 wrote:
roranoa wrote:How do lawyers who are single (that is, not in a relationship) meet other people if there so busy all the time (working 80-90 hours a week)?

Can you tell us any stories?


they cry themselves to sleep alone


This actually sounds like an interesting question. I mean, knowing how busy lawyers are, meeting your special someone might not be easy.

I know of many (like, 4) single lawyers in their late 30's and early 40's and it kinda scares me too.

Anonymous User
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 16, 2012 11:49 pm

itbdvorm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
1-2 Transactions? That seems so early, how can you tell that easily?


You'd be surprised - talent really is distinguishible almost immediately.


itbdvorm, this is an old quote, but I was reading through this thread and noticed that you said you thought you could tell whether a junior associate was getting it or had talent after one or two transactions with them. If I had excellent reviews all summer on 10+ projects, is it likely I "get it" or are people just way nicer in reviews than they are when judging talent in their heads? I presume it's the latter, but it is frustrating to not know where you really fall. I got increased responsibility and some contact with outside people on deals, which I should probably take as a better sign than my reviews, I guess.

Also, have you noticed any correlations between "getting it" and various characteristics (school range, grades, etc)? I know you mentioned having more issues with transfer students, but is there anything else?

Can you describe an instance of distinguishing talent immediately?

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:Candidate readily accepts your CB, but before your CB occurs candidate receives a good offer and is 99% sure they will accept it. I imagine this happens frequently. Do you prefer that the candidate inform you about this development before your CB?

I guess that one possibility is that you still might want a shot at the candidate, the other possibility is that it could be a waste of your time. From the candidate perspective, meeting with you might prove to be beneficial [to the candidate] somewhere down the road.


If you're really not coming (no chance), cancel. Why waste my time?

itbdvorm
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Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...

Postby itbdvorm » Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:56 am

fumagalli wrote:
clone22 wrote:
roranoa wrote:How do lawyers who are single (that is, not in a relationship) meet other people if there so busy all the time (working 80-90 hours a week)?

Can you tell us any stories?


they cry themselves to sleep alone


This actually sounds like an interesting question. I mean, knowing how busy lawyers are, meeting your special someone might not be easy.

I know of many (like, 4) single lawyers in their late 30's and early 40's and it kinda scares me too.


Luck has a lot to do w/it...happens eventually though. Easier for guys (sorry)




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