V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Kring345]

how typical is it for lawyers to take a leave of absence for a year and then return. i know it's done for clerkships, but what about just to do public interest or something for a year, and then return. assuming you've already worked at the firm for 2-3 years and proved youre a competent associate. would this be impossible?

Same question, except not as a do-gooder. But rather as an entrepreneur. I'd imagine a lot of biglaw types are interested in setting up or at least being involved and investing in start ups.

[Anonymous User]

If you work your ass off (hours wise) but aren't a very social person or intelligent, can you last ~5 years in the firm?

[jd20132013]

If you work your ass off (hours wise) but aren't a very social person or intelligent, can you last ~5 years in the firm?

i would guess you'd need one of the two.

i dont work at a firm but generally speaking if you dont know how to relate to people you better be the fucking best at what you do

[Anonymous User]

If you work your ass off (hours wise) but aren't a very social person or intelligent, can you last ~5 years in the firm?

i would guess you'd need one of the two.

i dont work at a firm but generally speaking if you dont know how to relate to people you better be the fucking best at what you do

The best? Or just a billable machine? Anyways thanks.

[roranoa]

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[roranoa]

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[itbdvorm]

Thanks for taking questions itb. What are your thoughts on starting out in a secondary or tertiary market biglaw firm vs. starting at a highly selective big name firm and then lateralling down after 3-5 years? I've heard some say that it's worth it to start forging relationships from the start at a regional biglaw firm, while others have said that the brand name on your resume/high level of work experience is more valuable, and will open up the possibility of lateralling as a partner to a less prestigious firm. Would the lateralling as a partner option only apply if you're in the same market?

Neither way's the route I've travelled so can't say for sure. But I personally think you can never make the trade-up. And I also think that you can develop enormous skills in your first few years at a firm like mine.

So the question comes, when it's partnership time, who will have the advantage - the more talented attorney or the one with better local relationships? And the answer of course is...it depends on how much better on both fronts.

So big firms result in more talented attorneys? Also, I thought that at big firms you end up with good training and then not as much responsibility as in a smaller firm, because the partners do the interesting work and associates do doc review. Is that not true?

I couldn't say for litigation. But you definitely do higher-end work earlier in corporate.

[itbdvorm]

how typical is it for lawyers to take a leave of absence for a year and then return. i know it's done for clerkships, but what about just to do public interest or something for a year, and then return. assuming you've already worked at the firm for 2-3 years and proved youre a competent associate. would this be impossible?

Same question, except not as a do-gooder. But rather as an entrepreneur. I'd imagine a lot of biglaw types are interested in setting up or at least being involved and investing in start ups.

Either way, you'll take a greater than one year hit to your partnership chances. But coming back is probably a possibility in both instances if you're well regarded.

[itbdvorm]

If you work your ass off (hours wise) but aren't a very social person or intelligent, can you last ~5 years in the firm?

No. If you're an idiot you will be inefficient with your hours and, moreover, will produce terrible work product. Those are two terrible strikes against you.

[itbdvorm]

A more important question...

Do you care about gap years?(before law school)

I have a really shady resume at my hand right now.
I have a 1 year gap since graduation (Aug 2011) and I just got a management job at a local department store (just started a month ago)

The 1 year gap happened because I wasn't sure what I wanted to do with my life so I juggled several options for a few months after graduation. I thought about going to graduate school, culinary school, etc...basically I didn't really make a choice and time flew by.

So I decided to get a job and started job hunting since Dec 2011. I went through interviews and all that during March - May 2012 and got a job at June.

I'm not satisfied with my job right now (it sucks) so I actually want to take up graduate school before I go to law school. But since I'll have to enroll for next years class I'll have an even longer gap.

Anyway, I'm guessing all this can't look good to anyone. And I'm thinking maybe this looks so bad that it might effect my entire prospect of getting a big law job.

Any advice?

Whatever. Why are you going to graduate school? Why are you going to law school? The fact that you clearly don't seem to want to be a lawyer will likely hurt more than anything else.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if this has been asked. What do you think about switching to part-time to get another shot at OCI if you strike out the first time?

[Anonymous User]

How do you view MA/PhD degrees in the humanities? Is it better to finish the degree or might that signal a flight risk to academia? Does graduate work offer anywhere near the kind of advantage that full-time work experience does?

[itbdvorm]

Not sure if this has been asked. What do you think about switching to part-time to get another shot at OCI if you strike out the first time?

No idea. Couldn't hurt I guess, though all depends on why you struck out the first time

[itbdvorm]

How do you view MA/PhD degrees in the humanities? Is it better to finish the degree or might that signal a flight risk to academia? Does graduate work offer anywhere near the kind of advantage that full-time work experience does?

Zero benefit in my view. Probably better off finishing the degree later.

[Anonymous User]

Hypo: assume I'm a first-year associate at your firm who wants to leave to clerk for an Art III district court judge somewhere for 2 years. Will the firm contractually bind themselves to hiring me back 2 years later?

[Anonymous User]

Most judges will not let you have an open firm offer, and even if you're permitted, it will be a PITA because you will be conflicted out of cases involving the firm.

At my firm, clerks will not receive open offers, but the firm will encourage the good performers to return.

[Anonymous User]

Most judges will not let you have an open firm offer, and even if you're permitted, it will be a PITA because you will be conflicted out of cases involving the firm.

At my firm, clerks will not receive open offers, but the firm will encourage the good performers to return.

makes sense. thanks!

[Myself]

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[Myself]

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[itbdvorm]

How closely do you look at the transcript? Do you hold it against a candidate if he took what you perceive to be "fluff" classes? Or do you just usually look at GPA?

Depends on the person and the school. If I'm iffy on the person I may glance at the transcript to compare "core" classes vs. fluff (I do this moreso at schools where second semester is chock full of electives, obviously). Not sure whether others also do so.

[itbdvorm]

Another question out of curiosity. I saw you ripped a poster in the SA Anxiety thread. How often have you had to yell at or otherwise reprimand an SA or other person below you? What is usually the cause of the reprimand? What mistakes (that an SA or junior attorney might not usually think of) piss you off the most?

Maybe this isn't a question just out of curiosity. It could actually help me avoid being yelled at in the future.

I was probably unnecessarily mean there. But I'm a little stunned at stories of entitlement I'm hearing. 99.9% of the time attitude is what enfuriates me about juniors. Some people lack the capacity to figure out certain things, and some lack the experience. But when your laziness, etc. means I have to stay later / re-do something / work longer it really pisses me off.

[Myself]

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[itbdvorm]

Did you ever clerk for a federal judge? if so, did it help you? how has your experience been with former clerks in comparison with your experiences with non-clerks. do clerks tend to be smarter, better writers, quicker, etc.?

I didn't clerk, and in corporate obviously clerking is less common. That said, we certainly do have some clerks in our group (some of whom are incredibly smart, excellent writers, etc.).

I guess I'd say my experience mirrors what you'd expect - people who clerked for high-profile judges tend to be quite impressive. People who clerk for random judges are hit or miss.

[Anonymous User]

How closely do you look at the transcript? Do you hold it against a candidate if he took what you perceive to be "fluff" classes? Or do you just usually look at GPA?

Depends on the person and the school. If I'm iffy on the person I may glance at the transcript to compare "core" classes vs. fluff (I do this moreso at schools where second semester is chock full of electives, obviously). Not sure whether others also do so.

Along these lines, what about taking fewer credits than usual first semester 2L year? Most of the courses I was interested in for this upcoming semester were high credit courses so I was contemplating taking 3 instead of 4 to take the pressure off when combined with the job search (one of my target markets is on the other side of the country from where I go to school). I would only be 1-1.5 credits lower than the recommended amount per semester, but if I took 4 classes like most people do, I would be about 3 credits over.

Would it make me look lazy/bad at a screener? Especially if I got back on track the next semester? Also the classes wouldn't be fluff classes (think Corporations, Income Taxation, Copyright/Trademarks).

Alternatively I could just sign up for the 4th class and drop it after I accept an offer if things get too intense...

[Anonymous User]

Does saying you will work for corporate/litigation help your chances?

For example, I've heard that showing a demonstrated interest in corporate for a firm like Paul Weiss will help.