V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm okay with a one word vague answer. I mean if someone would like to elaborate that would be great, though. Latham or Weil in 2016?

When you ask vague questions, you will get vague answers. What practice/location at a minimum?

Based on the question as asked, Latham.

New York. Undecided between corp and lit. Within lit, interested in white collar. Within corp, no idea.

[Anonymous User]

I'm okay with a one word vague answer. I mean if someone would like to elaborate that would be great, though. Latham or Weil in 2016?

When you ask vague questions, you will get vague answers. What practice/location at a minimum?

Based on the question as asked, Latham.

New York. Undecided between corp and lit. Within lit, interested in white collar. Within corp, no idea.

Latham is the obvious choice if you're undecided

[Danger Zone]

So Simpson is better--- great insight

You'll learn that partners speak this way. Enjoy law.

Well, we especially do when the questions are vague and the answers are obvious.

There are a million threads and insights about the differences between these two firms. I would bet I've even answered this specific question before. Don't ask me to do work that you could (and should) do yourself and then get pissy with me for giving you short answers. You're not a paying client, I don't owe you anything. You want a specific answer to a specific question regarding different facets of the firms? I'll tell you what I think, maybe.

We know, your time is so valuable and you're very important.

[landshoes]

So Simpson is better--- great insight

You'll learn that partners speak this way. Enjoy law.

Well, we especially do when the questions are vague and the answers are obvious.

There are a million threads and insights about the differences between these two firms. I would bet I've even answered this specific question before. Don't ask me to do work that you could (and should) do yourself and then get pissy with me for giving you short answers. You're not a paying client, I don't owe you anything. You want a specific answer to a specific question regarding different facets of the firms? I'll tell you what I think, maybe.

We know, your time is so valuable and you're very important.

actually yeah, to the people here he kinda is. stop being pissy.

[Blue0613]

Yeah but don't put yourself out there as Mr Thoughtful and leave some kid a glib answer and then pull the partner card or the find it yourself bit. You've answered all kinds of things more than once. And you're usually pretty nice about it. The previous kid wanted to know your thoughts on two very different systems. He didn't want the peanut gallery on it.

If you're too busy, don't answer. If you work at say Weil and want to shit on Kirkland, maybe don't answer. But The irony of putting yourself out there as taking questions and then being a prick about it I think gives the kid the right to act pissy.

Maybe time to pass this thread onto a junior partner who still gives a shit.

[cookiejar1]

Yeah but don't put yourself out there as Mr Thoughtful and leave some kid a glib answer and then pull the partner card or the find it yourself bit. You've answered all kinds of things more than once. And you're usually pretty nice about it. The previous kid wanted to know your thoughts on two very different systems. He didn't want the peanut gallery on it.

If you're too busy, don't answer. If you work at say Weil and want to shit on Kirkland, maybe don't answer. But The irony of putting yourself out there as taking questions and then being a prick about it I think gives the kid the right to act pissy.

Maybe time to pass this thread onto a junior partner who still gives a shit.

lol. calm down, kid.

are you really trying to say that a one-off, arguably "prickish" comment is somehow unjust? in this profession? really?

[landshoes]

Yeah but don't put yourself out there as Mr Thoughtful and leave some kid a glib answer and then pull the partner card or the find it yourself bit. You've answered all kinds of things more than once. And you're usually pretty nice about it. The previous kid wanted to know your thoughts on two very different systems. He didn't want the peanut gallery on it.

If you're too busy, don't answer. If you work at say Weil and want to shit on Kirkland, maybe don't answer. But The irony of putting yourself out there as taking questions and then being a prick about it I think gives the kid the right to act pissy.

Maybe time to pass this thread onto a junior partner who still gives a shit.

pass this thread on? are you under the impression that this is some kind of favor that WE are doing for HIM?

"oh you were nice before, you answered repeat questions before, now we're entitled to your time and energy"

if that is the case why should anyone ever be nice or generous with their time?

the previous "kid" is an adult with (presumably) two biglaw firm offers. I'm sure they will be fine with whatever level of advice they get. FOR FREE. From someone who does literally charge nearly $1k an hour for their advice.

Jesus. I know everyone is freaking out about OCI etc. right now but it is valuable to learn that 1) entitlement is not a good look, and 2) no need to bite the hand that feeds you.

[Anonymous User]

Do you have advice for someone who went straight through college to law school? I feel like I come off immature or that I lack experience to employers.

[Danger Zone]

Yeah but don't put yourself out there as Mr Thoughtful and leave some kid a glib answer and then pull the partner card or the find it yourself bit. You've answered all kinds of things more than once. And you're usually pretty nice about it. The previous kid wanted to know your thoughts on two very different systems. He didn't want the peanut gallery on it.

If you're too busy, don't answer. If you work at say Weil and want to shit on Kirkland, maybe don't answer. But The irony of putting yourself out there as taking questions and then being a prick about it I think gives the kid the right to act pissy.

Maybe time to pass this thread onto a junior partner who still gives a shit.

pass this thread on? are you under the impression that this is some kind of favor that WE are doing for HIM?

"oh you were nice before, you answered repeat questions before, now we're entitled to your time and energy"

if that is the case why should anyone ever be nice or generous with their time?

the previous "kid" is an adult with (presumably) two biglaw firm offers. I'm sure they will be fine with whatever level of advice they get. FOR FREE. From someone who does literally charge nearly $1k an hour for their advice.

Jesus. I know everyone is freaking out about OCI etc. right now but it is valuable to learn that 1) entitlement is not a good look, and 2) no need to bite the hand that feeds you.

Entitlement isn't a good look, no matter who is wearing it.

[sublime]

Yeah but don't put yourself out there as Mr Thoughtful and leave some kid a glib answer and then pull the partner card or the find it yourself bit. You've answered all kinds of things more than once. And you're usually pretty nice about it. The previous kid wanted to know your thoughts on two very different systems. He didn't want the peanut gallery on it.

If you're too busy, don't answer. If you work at say Weil and want to shit on Kirkland, maybe don't answer. But The irony of putting yourself out there as taking questions and then being a prick about it I think gives the kid the right to act pissy.

Maybe time to pass this thread onto a junior partner who still gives a shit.

As others have pointed out, itbdvorm has been nice enough to take time out of his assuredly busy life to answer questions about his or her practice and firms generally for five years now, helping countless students. This thread, because of his or her efforts, is a great resource, especially because he or she is at a career stage that not many posters here are or will be.

If you continue to be a dick in this and other threads, you will be banned, rather than just outed for anon abuse.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah but don't put yourself out there as Mr Thoughtful and leave some kid a glib answer and then pull the partner card or the find it yourself bit. You've answered all kinds of things more than once. And you're usually pretty nice about it. The previous kid wanted to know your thoughts on two very different systems. He didn't want the peanut gallery on it.

If you're too busy, don't answer. If you work at say Weil and want to shit on Kirkland, maybe don't answer. But The irony of putting yourself out there as taking questions and then being a prick about it I think gives the kid the right to act pissy.

Maybe time to pass this thread onto a junior partner who still gives a shit.

pass this thread on? are you under the impression that this is some kind of favor that WE are doing for HIM?

"oh you were nice before, you answered repeat questions before, now we're entitled to your time and energy"

if that is the case why should anyone ever be nice or generous with their time?

the previous "kid" is an adult with (presumably) two biglaw firm offers. I'm sure they will be fine with whatever level of advice they get. FOR FREE. From someone who does literally charge nearly $1k an hour for their advice.

Jesus. I know everyone is freaking out about OCI etc. right now but it is valuable to learn that 1) entitlement is not a good look, and 2) no need to bite the hand that feeds you.

Entitlement isn't a good look, no matter who is wearing it.

Ok, let me specify. Acting entitled to something that you are not, in fact, entitled to---is not a good look. itbdvorm is entitled to not answer questions or to answer them extremely briefly, because it's his time, effort, and energy. We, on the other hand, are not entitled to his time, effort, or energy. Because it's rightfully his.

This is a key distinction that basically everyone should attempt to understand. Acting entitled to things that are legitimately yours = good boundaries and not being a doormat. Acting entitled to things that are not legitimately yours = being "entitled" and usually, being an asshole.

[Eldon Tyrell]

Please don't leave, OP. We are not worthy, and we know not what we do.

[Sprout]

Also like to say, to whoever answers the Qs ITT, thank you. You've personally helped me a LOT via answers from myself and others

[Anonymous User]

Sorry everyone

[landshoes]

Sorry everyone

It's cool, everyone gets a little nutty around this time of year. You'll be fine and in a month you'll be laughing about it, I promise.

[Anonymous User]

Given today's market, what are some things a rising 2L should look for before ultimately joining a firm?

Would you focus on Chamber's Bands? Overall fit?

[Anonymous User]

thanks landshoes. i can't tell you how bad I feel...

[Anonymous User]

For a recent grad applying to entry level jobs, how many years of experience for the job description is the cutoff?

Outside of the legal industry, even though a job said 2-4 years of experience for entry level, they still hired people with zero years.
I know the legal industry is a little more structured. I was told you can get away with applying to positions looking for 1 year. What about 1-2 or 1-3?

[itbdvorm]

Advice for a CB when your grades are lower than those of the students this firm has historically hired from your school? Does that matter less now that I've made it past the screener?

Just do your best. Be prepared, smart, thoughtful. Grades still matter, but they called you back for a reason.

[itbdvorm]

not a law student, but appreciate your insights: what's your favorite/least favorite firm to work with on a deal? I assume the answers are different based on corporate subpractice.

I actually don't mind working with Wachtell, so long as sufficiently senior folks are involved. The junior folks can be insufferable, because they don't know what they're doing but have too much responsibility, which means you waste time going nowhere.

I do mind working with Kirkland, because they try to do the same thing but don't actually EVER have the senior folks involved. So you get a bunch of junior people with no clue who can't move/comment on anything with substance. So deals generally stall out and everything becomes a business issue rather than people having authority / ability to make deals.

[itbdvorm]

I had 2 call backs a week apart. In each CB the partners said they will get back to me in a week or two. It has been 3 and 4 weeks for each CB. About 3 days ago I sent an email out reiterating my interest, what i liked about the firm, and some new developments in a big case i was working on in my previous firm. Still no word.

Is it because I have rejection snail mails on its way?

Never know. Could be on a waitlist equivalent.

[itbdvorm]

Do you have advice for someone who went straight through college to law school? I feel like I come off immature or that I lack experience to employers.

You don't necessarily have those qualities just because you went straight through, but if you think you come across that way I'd do some practice interviews. Take a breath and gather your thoughts before responding. Do your homework on the firm and about what you want to do.

[itbdvorm]

Given today's market, what are some things a rising 2L should look for before ultimately joining a firm?

Would you focus on Chamber's Bands? Overall fit?

I'd think about practice group specialties (what you want to do and who you'll work with is much more important than "firm prestige"). Fit is key in my view (you won't succeed if you can't connect with people). I don't view "today's market" as one in which any large firms are particularly over-leveraged / under-capitalized, though obviously when the tide goes out you see who's swimming naked. The tide is in right now - firms are very busy.

[itbdvorm]

For a recent grad applying to entry level jobs, how many years of experience for the job description is the cutoff?

Outside of the legal industry, even though a job said 2-4 years of experience for entry level, they still hired people with zero years.
I know the legal industry is a little more structured. I was told you can get away with applying to positions looking for 1 year. What about 1-2 or 1-3?

I don't think I understand your question. At a firm, if you are trying to get hired for a first-year associate position, you should be a newly-minted law school grad. If a firm is looking for a 3-5 year, they'd probably talk to 2nd years or 6th years if other things fit.

[itbdvorm]

And for whatever it's worth...

I appreciate that several of you came to my defense. Even we older folks can use some validation here and there.

More importantly (because I can't help but try to find teachable moments), if the first grumpy individual learned something from an anonymous message board kerfuffle, that seems like an overall universe win. When I was a law student, I wrote a cocky, snarky email to a law professor regarding an article he had written. A few minutes later, he replied with a terse email that (a) ripped my specious argument to threads and (b) in so many words, said "who the f do you think you are?" I sat there in shame and re-read both my email, and his response, several times. Then I went in the next day to his office hours and apologized.

Today, he's still one of my mentors. And his upbraiding was exactly the slap in the head I needed.

I was then, and presumably most of you are now, a twenty-something know-it-all who had found academic success at nearly every step along the way. But despite being a know-it-all, I didn't know shit. And most of you guys don't either. And that's actually ok!

Being an entry level individual it's much more important to be eager and humble than actually to know what you're doing. All of you will do far better in interviews - and in life - by remembering how lucky you are to have opportunities and that you're not entitled to anything. Hell, I still feel that way...often

Starting salaries at firms - for people with zero real world experience - are insane. But for people with the credentials to actually get hired, it's not actually that hard to earn it. If you demonstrate commitment and eagerness, you really will do well.