I understand, but could you expound a little more? You didn't really get to the meat of the questions.itbdvorm wrote:this is a complicated question without an easy answer. think of it as analogous to a points system. you get a point, but nothing's automatic.Anonymous User wrote:how do you handle urms?
1. who counts? only AA/NA/mx/pr? what about non-mx/pr hispanic (like Dominican) or asian?
2. are urms subjected to lower cutoffs (3.3 instead of 3.5), lower school rank (t20 instead of t6), or is it that the cutoff is the same but once a urm is over it, s/he gets the job automatically?
thanks
V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
seconded. when you say "a point," is it just a point? or can it elevate a below-median/bottom-third urm from a school where the cutoff would be top-third for non-urms?Anonymous User wrote:I understand, but could you expound a little more? You didn't really get to the meat of the questions.itbdvorm wrote:this is a complicated question without an easy answer. think of it as analogous to a points system. you get a point, but nothing's automatic.Anonymous User wrote:how do you handle urms?
1. who counts? only AA/NA/mx/pr? what about non-mx/pr hispanic (like Dominican) or asian?
2. are urms subjected to lower cutoffs (3.3 instead of 3.5), lower school rank (t20 instead of t6), or is it that the cutoff is the same but once a urm is over it, s/he gets the job automatically?
thanks
-
- Posts: 146
- Joined: Wed Jun 25, 2008 2:29 pm
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Assuming AA in hiring works the same way as it does in School applications, and that I learned anything in Con Law, there's no set amount that you benefit by from being URM. I'm aware they're private companies, so they're not Constitutionally constrained, but there are Federal laws on point. You just get a bump, and if it's a tangible, set amount, then that's illegal. So you're probably not going to get a response that says what the actual bump is, because it's illegal for there to be a set amount.Anonymous User wrote:seconded. when you say "a point," is it just a point? or can it elevate a below-median/bottom-third urm from a school where the cutoff would be top-third for non-urms?Anonymous User wrote:I understand, but could you expound a little more? You didn't really get to the meat of the questions.itbdvorm wrote:this is a complicated question without an easy answer. think of it as analogous to a points system. you get a point, but nothing's automatic.Anonymous User wrote:how do you handle urms?
1. who counts? only AA/NA/mx/pr? what about non-mx/pr hispanic (like Dominican) or asian?
2. are urms subjected to lower cutoffs (3.3 instead of 3.5), lower school rank (t20 instead of t6), or is it that the cutoff is the same but once a urm is over it, s/he gets the job automatically?
thanks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Employment ... ted_States
-
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:36 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Are some of your partners introverts? (Or partners at other V15 firms) Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
Last edited by fumagalli on Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
- 84651846190
- Posts: 2198
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2012 7:06 pm
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
lol. i'm sure he's fine with you ditching him. it's nbd.Anonymous User wrote:Two weeks ago I was supposed to meet with an attorney (coffee) at a firm I'm hoping to interview with at OCI. There was a bit of a mix-up and I accidentally missed him. When I figured it out I called him immediately, and apologized. He didn't make it seem it was that big of a deal at all, but I haven't heard from him since. Should I be worried at all or is this nothing?
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:06 pm
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
I can take this one-- yes, absolutely, there is a not insignificant proportion of big firm partners are are introverted or socially awkward. For that reason, they don't often go to recruiting events or offer dinners or the like, but they are out there.fumagalli wrote:Are some of your partners introverts? Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
- Sheffield
- Posts: 411
- Joined: Sat Aug 18, 2012 9:07 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Regarding SAs, is there a “generally speaking” timetable on when firms target their offers? Perhaps at the end of the SA period, or the following month, or before OCI…. I realize this timetable is different from firm to firm, which is why I ask “generally speaking.” As a side note I’m guessing firms want to make their intentions known before OCI (to avoid the possibility of losing valued SAs to competing firms).
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but do you really feel that in some non-trivial number of cases you can strongly suspect that someone is going to be a great lawyer even if their composite first-year GPA suggests that you have less confidence in that belief?itbdvorm wrote:a) if i think you'd make a great lawyer / are someone i'd want to work withAnonymous User wrote:So, two questions: a) let's say you think I have more brainpower than my grades suggest. Grades still matter, right? You'd have to go to bat for me if my grades are below the cut, and why would you do that? b) What if, because of the grades, you don't get the interview in the first place? That's why I was asking whether professional experience could help me get the interview.itbdvorm wrote:this question seems a bit nonsensical but will try:Anonymous User wrote:I KNOW you will refuse to answer this question. So, instead of "answering" it, can I ask that you "give the least bullshit numerical answer?" You can trust that I will use the "least bullshit numerical answer" only as a guide. But. Here it goes: 3 years serious work experience. Large, well-known firm in a prestigious industry. Accolades. How much GPA does that "buy" me that I can add to my actual GPA to reach a firm's internal, unstated GPA cutoff.
Yes, different for every firm. So, let's apply this ONLY to firms that would at least consider to hire in my actual GPA range, even if they rarley do so. I already know which firms meet that definition from another source.
if you are below our cut, and we have sufficient candidates we like above our cut, you probably have a close to zero chance. if you are awesome and can wow me there's a chance.
otherwise, the only things i have to judge you on - really - are grades and the person you present to me in 20 minutes.
how can you prove to me that your awesome accolades are independently achieved? if you are a rhodes scholar, for example, that's an achievement where i understand the process for how someone obtains it and it's independent verification of awesomeness. but how do i know what your job was, really? vice president at goldman could mean you're an investment banking star, could mean you're back-office schlub, could mean your daddy's a big client.
20 minutes with you can sometimes indicate you've got more brainpower working than your grades suggest. and sometimes it can do the opposite.
b) not really sure, but guessing not. if there's a hard cut there's a hard cut.
(Not trying to argue. I just want to get a sense of what I can or cannot accomplish in an interview.)
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
How did they get the job and advance to partnership if they're socially awkward?aces wrote:I can take this one-- yes, absolutely, there is a not insignificant proportion of big firm partners are are introverted or socially awkward. For that reason, they don't often go to recruiting events or offer dinners or the like, but they are out there.fumagalli wrote:Are some of your partners introverts? Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
-
- Posts: 559
- Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2009 11:18 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Maybe they were super smart to begin with?Anonymous User wrote:How did they get the job and advance to partnership if they're socially awkward?aces wrote:I can take this one-- yes, absolutely, there is a not insignificant proportion of big firm partners are are introverted or socially awkward. For that reason, they don't often go to recruiting events or offer dinners or the like, but they are out there.fumagalli wrote:Are some of your partners introverts? Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
-
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2011 2:36 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
What's your source? Does your info hold the same for V15 firms?aces wrote:I can take this one-- yes, absolutely, there is a not insignificant proportion of big firm partners are are introverted or socially awkward. For that reason, they don't often go to recruiting events or offer dinners or the like, but they are out there.fumagalli wrote:Are some of your partners introverts? Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Yes, V15 firms have socially awkward partners. It's literally like any other group of people. Not everyone who works at a firm is a charismatic social butterfly.fumagalli wrote:What's your source? Does your info hold the same for V15 firms?aces wrote:I can take this one-- yes, absolutely, there is a not insignificant proportion of big firm partners are are introverted or socially awkward. For that reason, they don't often go to recruiting events or offer dinners or the like, but they are out there.fumagalli wrote:Are some of your partners introverts? Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 157
- Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2012 9:06 pm
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
I am summering at a V15 firm. I'd characterize maybe a quarter to a third of the partners I've interacted with as introverts. That doesn't mean that they're "aspie" or can't hold a conversation or anything like that, but there are plenty of partners who are quiet, not super outgoing, don't go to firm events, etc. (NB: I am at a firm that has a somewhat deserved reputation for being "bookish," so YMMV.)fumagalli wrote:What's your source? Does your info hold the same for V15 firms?aces wrote:I can take this one-- yes, absolutely, there is a not insignificant proportion of big firm partners are are introverted or socially awkward. For that reason, they don't often go to recruiting events or offer dinners or the like, but they are out there.fumagalli wrote:Are some of your partners introverts? Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
The idea that business development comes solely from schmoozing or whatever is kind of a myth. Especially for the elite firms with institutional clients and a first-rate industry reputation, generating business comes more out of doing a superb job on your matters and building a reputation that you're really good at what you do than from charming some GC over dinner. I used to think that you had to have a certain personality to be a rainmaker, but there are plenty of well-respected partners who might not fit your stereotype of a hotshot lawyer but who are just damned good at their job.
- guano
- Posts: 2264
- Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:49 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
to give a different perspective, at my old company, if we needed legal work in a particular niche that we hadn't dealt with before, we would find out who has a reputation for doing excellent work, both by asking our contacts and by checking sources like Chambers. After that, the only personality test was "can we work with this person?", which is a relatively low bar. We never physically met most of the attorneys we worked with either (particularly if they're not in the same geographic area)aces wrote:I am summering at a V15 firm. I'd characterize maybe a quarter to a third of the partners I've interacted with as introverts. That doesn't mean that they're "aspie" or can't hold a conversation or anything like that, but there are plenty of partners who are quiet, not super outgoing, don't go to firm events, etc. (NB: I am at a firm that has a somewhat deserved reputation for being "bookish," so YMMV.)fumagalli wrote:What's your source? Does your info hold the same for V15 firms?aces wrote:I can take this one-- yes, absolutely, there is a not insignificant proportion of big firm partners are are introverted or socially awkward. For that reason, they don't often go to recruiting events or offer dinners or the like, but they are out there.fumagalli wrote:Are some of your partners introverts? Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
The idea that business development comes solely from schmoozing or whatever is kind of a myth. Especially for the elite firms with institutional clients and a first-rate industry reputation, generating business comes more out of doing a superb job on your matters and building a reputation that you're really good at what you do than from charming some GC over dinner. I used to think that you had to have a certain personality to be a rainmaker, but there are plenty of well-respected partners who might not fit your stereotype of a hotshot lawyer but who are just damned good at their job.
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
I'm at a V10 (but also with a bookish reputation) and I would say that upwards of 50% of partners I've met I wouldn't consider traditionally outgoing or salesman type. I think people tend to forget that GCs at F500 companies are usually just former partners at biglaw firms who don't need to be sold on the personality of the lawyer so much as their ability to do good work. The common thread for partners seems to be an unusual dedication to their job (long hours), an insane attention to certain details, and being particularly responsive to what clients ask for.aces wrote:I am summering at a V15 firm. I'd characterize maybe a quarter to a third of the partners I've interacted with as introverts. That doesn't mean that they're "aspie" or can't hold a conversation or anything like that, but there are plenty of partners who are quiet, not super outgoing, don't go to firm events, etc. (NB: I am at a firm that has a somewhat deserved reputation for being "bookish," so YMMV.)fumagalli wrote:What's your source? Does your info hold the same for V15 firms?aces wrote:I can take this one-- yes, absolutely, there is a not insignificant proportion of big firm partners are are introverted or socially awkward. For that reason, they don't often go to recruiting events or offer dinners or the like, but they are out there.fumagalli wrote:Are some of your partners introverts? Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
The idea that business development comes solely from schmoozing or whatever is kind of a myth. Especially for the elite firms with institutional clients and a first-rate industry reputation, generating business comes more out of doing a superb job on your matters and building a reputation that you're really good at what you do than from charming some GC over dinner. I used to think that you had to have a certain personality to be a rainmaker, but there are plenty of well-respected partners who might not fit your stereotype of a hotshot lawyer but who are just damned good at their job.
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
My grades are great (top 5%) but I just found out I didn't make LR. Obviously this is going to hurt me in interviews, but how can I minimize the damage?
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 456
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:08 pm
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Posting school will be helpful here. Top 5% at a T2 is much different than top 5% at HYS, and I'm pretty sure journal expectations change as well (grade-on/all write on).Anonymous User wrote:My grades are great (top 5%) but I just found out I didn't make LR. Obviously this is going to hurt me in interviews, but how can I minimize the damage?
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
so I'm just inside the top 1/3 at a midwest t35. was selected for an interview with a v10, and it was pre-select, not lottery, so they definitely chose by resumes. in all seriousness, why did I get an interview?
any tips for the interview given the situation?
any tips for the interview given the situation?
-
- Posts: 145
- Joined: Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:37 pm
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
It's happened to me also. Just impress them with your knowledge of their firm, etc.Anonymous User wrote:so I'm just inside the top 1/3 at a midwest t35. was selected for an interview with a v10, and it was pre-select, not lottery, so they definitely chose by resumes. in all seriousness, why did I get an interview?
any tips for the interview given the situation?
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
T1 school (but not HYS). Everyone has to participate in the write-on.RodneyRuxin wrote:Posting school will be helpful here. Top 5% at a T2 is much different than top 5% at HYS, and I'm pretty sure journal expectations change as well (grade-on/all write on).Anonymous User wrote:My grades are great (top 5%) but I just found out I didn't make LR. Obviously this is going to hurt me in interviews, but how can I minimize the damage?
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Have you ever met someone that's so charismatic, so impressive in person that you are blown away?Anonymous User wrote:I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but do you really feel that in some non-trivial number of cases you can strongly suspect that someone is going to be a great lawyer even if their composite first-year GPA suggests that you have less confidence in that belief?itbdvorm wrote:a) if i think you'd make a great lawyer / are someone i'd want to work withAnonymous User wrote:
So, two questions: a) let's say you think I have more brainpower than my grades suggest. Grades still matter, right? You'd have to go to bat for me if my grades are below the cut, and why would you do that? b) What if, because of the grades, you don't get the interview in the first place? That's why I was asking whether professional experience could help me get the interview.
b) not really sure, but guessing not. if there's a hard cut there's a hard cut.
(Not trying to argue. I just want to get a sense of what I can or cannot accomplish in an interview.)
-
- Posts: 1710
- Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:09 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
This is mostly right. If you've done 30 deals for a client and done an impressive job every time the fact that you're not the most charming person in the world doesn't matter much. But it also vastly depends on the group. You'll find more prevalence of charm in "marquee" groups than you will in "support" groupsaces wrote:I am summering at a V15 firm. I'd characterize maybe a quarter to a third of the partners I've interacted with as introverts. That doesn't mean that they're "aspie" or can't hold a conversation or anything like that, but there are plenty of partners who are quiet, not super outgoing, don't go to firm events, etc. (NB: I am at a firm that has a somewhat deserved reputation for being "bookish," so YMMV.)fumagalli wrote:What's your source? Does your info hold the same for V15 firms?aces wrote:I can take this one-- yes, absolutely, there is a not insignificant proportion of big firm partners are are introverted or socially awkward. For that reason, they don't often go to recruiting events or offer dinners or the like, but they are out there.fumagalli wrote:Are some of your partners introverts? Maybe shy or socially awkward a little? Like, they don't do well in big social settings like galas or parties?
The idea that business development comes solely from schmoozing or whatever is kind of a myth. Especially for the elite firms with institutional clients and a first-rate industry reputation, generating business comes more out of doing a superb job on your matters and building a reputation that you're really good at what you do than from charming some GC over dinner. I used to think that you had to have a certain personality to be a rainmaker, but there are plenty of well-respected partners who might not fit your stereotype of a hotshot lawyer but who are just damned good at their job.
-
- Posts: 428470
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Yes but how did these people get the job in the first place if they have to pass a callback where the partners evaluate them and their charm, esp. @ a place like V15 or CSM?itbdvorm wrote:
This is mostly right. If you've done 30 deals for a client and done an impressive job every time the fact that you're not the most charming person in the world doesn't matter much. But it also vastly depends on the group. You'll find more prevalence of charm in "marquee" groups than you will in "support" groups
And can you address the URM question above? thanks
-
- Posts: 456
- Joined: Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:08 pm
Re: V15 Senior Associate/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions...
Sorry to be a bother, but I'm trying to help you. Do people grade-on at your school?Anonymous User wrote:T1 school (but not HYS). Everyone has to participate in the write-on.RodneyRuxin wrote:Posting school will be helpful here. Top 5% at a T2 is much different than top 5% at HYS, and I'm pretty sure journal expectations change as well (grade-on/all write on).Anonymous User wrote:My grades are great (top 5%) but I just found out I didn't make LR. Obviously this is going to hurt me in interviews, but how can I minimize the damage?
If people can grade-on (with a good-faith effort) then it might indicate that you totally botched the write-on(LR people didn't think you even put in a good-faith effort). If everyone must write-on, then you're likely someone with good grades who just isn't a top-writer and that will probably change the answer.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login