V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Anonymous User]

^ I take it in that context it's not a good idea to discuss how we improved grades 2nd semester after bombing 1st?

I think this might be the ONLY time it'd be OK bringing up grades.

So it's not a good idea to discuss grades during the interview even when you have great grades?

it's still weird

Agree. How would you bring it up? "Look how awesome my grades are."

I wasn't thinking of explicitly talking about "I got x A's, x Cali's, my shit doesn't stink, etc." and more relating it to personality and competency strengths that are applicable to work and school such as hard working, diligent, motivated, able to manage time and stress effectively. The only specific class I was considering talking about would be legal writing to use as an example of good research, analytical and writing skills. However, I believe you guys are in a better position to say what is and isn't good to discuss in an interview so I think I'll just stay away from grade talk. Happy I saw this.

[Anonymous User]

I apologize if you've discussed this already, but do you have a sense of the pros and cons of M&A v. capital markets? I'm leaning M&A but I've also heard capital markets experience is pretty great since it gives you a lot of skills you need to move in house to big public companies.

[BizBro]

I apologize if you've discussed this already, but do you have a sense of the pros and cons of M&A v. capital markets? I'm leaning M&A but I've also heard capital markets experience is pretty great since it gives you a lot of skills you need to move in house to big public companies.

I, too, would like to know the answer to this.

[itbdvorm]

^ I take it in that context it's not a good idea to discuss how we improved grades 2nd semester after bombing 1st?

I think this might be the ONLY time it'd be OK bringing up grades.

So it's not a good idea to discuss grades during the interview even when you have great grades?

it's still weird

Agree. How would you bring it up? "Look how awesome my grades are."

I wasn't thinking of explicitly talking about "I got x A's, x Cali's, my shit doesn't stink, etc." and more relating it to personality and competency strengths that are applicable to work and school such as hard working, diligent, motivated, able to manage time and stress effectively. The only specific class I was considering talking about would be legal writing to use as an example of good research, analytical and writing skills. However, I believe you guys are in a better position to say what is and isn't good to discuss in an interview so I think I'll just stay away from grade talk. Happy I saw this.

OK, but that's not "discussing grades." That's using grades to prove a point. I think you could say, if asked about strengths, to reference your writing and research, and that was evidence of such, I guess. But tread lightly.

[itbdvorm]

I apologize if you've discussed this already, but do you have a sense of the pros and cons of M&A v. capital markets? I'm leaning M&A but I've also heard capital markets experience is pretty great since it gives you a lot of skills you need to move in house to big public companies.

I, too, would like to know the answer to this.

I think generally M&A is a better path for getting a broad corporate skillset, as the nature of the transactions is a bit more fluid and gives you better preparation for eventual in-house / general corporate role.

Capital markets will give you very specific experience / expertise when it comes to 33/34 Act issues, what's market for loans, etc.

Neither role is directly comparable to an in-house attorney's role. I'd say M&A is slightly better for going to a F500 company, cap markets probably better for going to a bank.

[rpupkin]

^ I take it in that context it's not a good idea to discuss how we improved grades 2nd semester after bombing 1st?

I think this might be the ONLY time it'd be OK bringing up grades.

So it's not a good idea to discuss grades during the interview even when you have great grades?

There's a fine line between promoting yourself and acting like a socially-oblivious braggart. If you find yourself starting or ending a sentence with "as evidenced by my 'A' in [law class]," you're probably on the wrong side of the line.

[Anonymous User]

I apologize if you've discussed this already, but do you have a sense of the pros and cons of M&A v. capital markets? I'm leaning M&A but I've also heard capital markets experience is pretty great since it gives you a lot of skills you need to move in house to big public companies.

I, too, would like to know the answer to this.

I think generally M&A is a better path for getting a broad corporate skillset, as the nature of the transactions is a bit more fluid and gives you better preparation for eventual in-house / general corporate role.

Capital markets will give you very specific experience / expertise when it comes to 33/34 Act issues, what's market for loans, etc.

Neither role is directly comparable to an in-house attorney's role. I'd say M&A is slightly better for going to a F500 company, cap markets probably better for going to a bank.

Thanks a bunch for your response. I'm going to a V10 transactional practice so I'm sure the opportunities will get better as you get more senior, but are there any areas youd suggest trying out to prepare for an eventual exit? I'd like to stick it out for as long as possible but I'm also very cognizant of the possibility I'll want to leave after some number of years.

[JenDarby]

I work in house at an investment bank and we have quite a few people with capital markets backgrounds and not one person with an M&A background. Of course this is just anecdotal but for our purposes a capital markets background provides the general skill set we look for to handle a lot of different banking areas.

[itbdvorm]

I apologize if you've discussed this already, but do you have a sense of the pros and cons of M&A v. capital markets? I'm leaning M&A but I've also heard capital markets experience is pretty great since it gives you a lot of skills you need to move in house to big public companies.

I, too, would like to know the answer to this.

I think generally M&A is a better path for getting a broad corporate skillset, as the nature of the transactions is a bit more fluid and gives you better preparation for eventual in-house / general corporate role.

Capital markets will give you very specific experience / expertise when it comes to 33/34 Act issues, what's market for loans, etc.

Neither role is directly comparable to an in-house attorney's role. I'd say M&A is slightly better for going to a F500 company, cap markets probably better for going to a bank.

Thanks a bunch for your response. I'm going to a V10 transactional practice so I'm sure the opportunities will get better as you get more senior, but are there any areas youd suggest trying out to prepare for an eventual exit? I'd like to stick it out for as long as possible but I'm also very cognizant of the possibility I'll want to leave after some number of years.

Honestly? Find the practice you like the best. No practice group is going to be so much better/worse - if you find a practice group that works for you there should be good options.

[itbdvorm]

I work in house at an investment bank and we have quite a few people with capital markets backgrounds and not one person with an M&A background. Of course this is just anecdotal but for our purposes a capital markets background provides the general skill set we look for to handle a lot of different banking areas.

Well...yeah. That was my point. Also that cap markets people generally deal with banks, so they get to know how they think better.

[JenDarby]

I work in house at an investment bank and we have quite a few people with capital markets backgrounds and not one person with an M&A background. Of course this is just anecdotal but for our purposes a capital markets background provides the general skill set we look for to handle a lot of different banking areas.

Well...yeah. That was my point. Also that cap markets people generally deal with banks, so they get to know how they think better.

I wasn't disagreeing with you, just providing my experience in support of your statement re banks.

[itbdvorm]

I work in house at an investment bank and we have quite a few people with capital markets backgrounds and not one person with an M&A background. Of course this is just anecdotal but for our purposes a capital markets background provides the general skill set we look for to handle a lot of different banking areas.

Well...yeah. That was my point. Also that cap markets people generally deal with banks, so they get to know how they think better.

I wasn't disagreeing with you, just providing my experience in support of your statement re banks.

Gotcha.

Will also add there are certain groups (such as, obviously, M&A) that will hire from M&A folks. And in terms of truly crossing over / becoming a banker, they're probably roughly even in ability to do so.

But in-house jobs at a bank in a legal capacity will be much more heavily filled w/bankers

[curepure]

but that doesn't work because others don't see it that way

Fair enough. So what else should I do in addition to the regular things everyone else does? I've been keeping in touch/updating most of the lawyers I've spoken with over the past year but I'm not sure if that's enough. A lot have asked me to send resumes and such but I doubt that'll turn into anything significant. I'm mostly happy with just speaking to them about their firm/practice but I feel like I should be more proactive about trying to get interviews.

I've been pretty conservative w/r/t bidding and bid a heavy amount of the less selective NY/CHI firms. But CHI firms don't hire nearly as many people as NY firms and NY firms don't usually hire from my old school. I'm assuming being exceptionally well prepared for interviews is all I can do but in case there's something else, I'm all ears.

recent NU grad here. I was not a transfer student but I have a lot of friends who were. 2014 was pretty hard on transfers, to my knowledge none of my friends got SA positions from 2L OCI even tho they were at top of their old schools, what they did was worked at smaller firms and maintained their GPA during their 1st year at NU (2L year).When 3L OCI came most of them got a handful of interviews, and quite a few (including 2 international students I know of) went to V10 firms in NYC.

[Anonymous User]

I'm an applicant transferring into T14 from a low ranked T4, but was ranked 2 in the class out of over 100. Some firms I have screeners with recruit at my old school (regional) and some don't, but those who do my old school is by far the worst on the list. Will being that high ranked at my old school put me over the grade cut-offs when compared against much higher schools or will I need to seriously wow in the interview to even be taken seriously & get a CB? I know on its face I am at a disadvantage, but I am wondering how severe that disadvantage is. I did get onto a secondary journal at new T14, not sure if it matters but worth noting. Thank you in advance.

[itbdvorm]

I'm an applicant transferring into T14 from a low ranked T4, but was ranked 2 in the class out of over 100. Some firms I have screeners with recruit at my old school (regional) and some don't, but those who do my old school is by far the worst on the list. Will being that high ranked at my old school put me over the grade cut-offs when compared against much higher schools or will I need to seriously wow in the interview to even be taken seriously & get a CB? I know on its face I am at a disadvantage, but I am wondering how severe that disadvantage is. I did get onto a secondary journal at new T14, not sure if it matters but worth noting. Thank you in advance.

Again...who knows.

Most firms will consider nearly anyone who was ranked 2 in a class...but you are going to largely be compared against people from your old school, not your new one.

Best you can do is interview, but you should also be mass-mailing aggressively. Your name/transcript/resume/cover letter should be in the inbox of every single firm that would have interviewed at your old school. Hustle.

[Anonymous User]

T30, bottom 20-40% (slightly below 3.0).

Have a screener interview lined up for V15 Tokyo office. Don't know how this happened. I'm assuming this is because of my language skills - fluent in Japanese and one other Asian language.

Any thoughts on how I should address this gpa issue? I'm having the interview with a person from the Tokyo office who flew here for the interview.

[itbdvorm]

T30, bottom 20-40% (slightly below 3.0).

Have a screener interview lined up for V15 Tokyo office. Don't know how this happened. I'm assuming this is because of my language skills - fluent in Japanese and one other Asian language.

Any thoughts on how I should address this gpa issue? I'm having the interview with a person from the Tokyo office who flew here for the interview.

You either have zero shot and it's just a screener, or you have a real shot. Be confident and prove how awesome you are.

[Anonymous User]

have you ever felt you are gradually losing your common sense. I used to have some level of street smartness, now that I have none, I cannot read people's reactions and respond accordingly. Some says to entertain and charm during an interview, some say to go conservative and professional, some say being able to be impressionable is important, some say being able to convey effectively is more important.

Now im clueless, all i know is that I left each interview with the feeling I was not a good sport for my time slot, I was respectful, sincere and conservative, I even stattered at certain points just because I was nervous to spout out all the stuff I want to say. CONFUSED. DESPERATE.

please give one example so that you can charm and being impressionable and remain uber-professional in the good way. I have a good face and minty breath btw, so dont mock me.

EIDT: I dont have a typical caucasian male face, so no benefit of doubt for me.

[nucky thompson]

T30, bottom 20-40% (slightly below 3.0).

Have a screener interview lined up for V15 Tokyo office. Don't know how this happened. I'm assuming this is because of my language skills - fluent in Japanese and one other Asian language.

Any thoughts on how I should address this gpa issue? I'm having the interview with a person from the Tokyo office who flew here for the interview.

Assuming you gave a resume with GPA or applied via simplicity and had GPA on file etc., the firm has seen your GPA. Be confident and personally aware, demonstrate some enthusiasm for the position and eagerness to learn and grow and do not mention your GPA in the interview. Do respond thoughtfully to questions about your GPA, should the interviewer ask any questions about your GPA, in a way that shows you take responsibility for it (and also maybe mention generally if any notable issue of distress or disruption etc. was obviously a significant factor in your lackluster performance) and also that emphasizes you have thought about and acted upon ways to improve your GPA moving forward.

[itbdvorm]

have you ever felt you are gradually losing your common sense. I used to have some level of street smartness, now that I have none, I cannot read people's reactions and respond accordingly. Some says to entertain and charm during an interview, some say to go conservative and professional, some say being able to be impressionable is important, some say being able to convey effectively is more important.

Now im clueless, all i know is that I left each interview with the feeling I was not a good sport for my time slot, I was respectful, sincere and conservative, I even stattered at certain points just because I was nervous to spout out all the stuff I want to say. CONFUSED. DESPERATE.

please give one example so that you can charm and being impressionable and remain uber-professional in the good way. I have a good face and minty breath btw, so dont mock me.

EIDT: I dont have a typical caucasian male face, so no benefit of doubt for me.

Deep breath. Confident. Calm. Know your stories. You can do this. Funny cute, not funny hilarious. Go be great.

[itbdvorm]

Some people are already beginning the "firm X vs. firm Y" debate. I'll try to answer, though of course note that much of it has to do with how YOU fit with the firm (and that of course is unanswerable on an online message board)

[Anonymous User]

For 3L OCIers who have clerkships lined up for a year after graduation, what's the right play? If its a desirable clerkship (and you're lit focused), do you play it up? Or is the fear of only working one year too great a flight risk for the firms?

[itbdvorm]

For 3L OCIers who have clerkships lined up for a year after graduation, what's the right play? If its a desirable clerkship (and you're lit focused), do you play it up? Or is the fear of only working one year too great a flight risk for the firms?

Play It up. Firms are interested in getting quality clerks.

[phildunphy]

You may have already touched on this, but can you suggest useful resources or training materials for incoming associates in a securities/capital markets corporate practice? I know that the best training is on the job, but I'd like to be at least somewhat familiar with IPOs and the different types of equity & debt offerings, etc. More specific resources as to the respective processes would be even better.

[CardozoLaw09]

If you're asked "where do you see yourself in five/ten years?" and you honestly think you'd want to go in house/government/etc by then, is it better to say that or should you say you see yourself still at the firm? I don't want to lie but I also don't want to shoot myself in the foot.

the one time i did it the partner flipped out and shit on in house attorneys for like 10 minutes, so probably a bad idea

I think honest but leaning towards the firm is a good way to do it. "I honestly don't know. I'm realistic enough to know that partnership prospects are increasingly difficult these days, but I'd like to start at a firm where I could potentially spend my whole career, and if it doesn't work out I'd be well positioned to explore alternative opportunities elsewhere. Where did you think you'd be when you were interviewing X years ago?"

why say that last part and not end it before that question?