V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[itbdvorm]

I'm summering at a V50 in NY with a growing corporate practice. I've enjoyed working the most with PE and almost all of our PE work is middle-market, transactional work. The deal teams are small and it seems like junior associates are fairly actively involved in the deals. At the same time, our PE firm clients don't hire attorneys so that scares me about exit options. We also have a decent finance practice with larger clients but I've enjoyed the work less and junior associates seem to get less responsibilities. I know you're at a V15 so these aren't really issues you've faced, but do you think picking PE is a bad call for exit options?

See response above, plus PE is never a bad call for exit options. You can develop a great skillset. Lots of places will want that

[itbdvorm]

I need some advice. I'm top 5-10% at a TT, strong regional brand but elsewhere not so much; on LR. Also have 3 years non-relevant WE that involved tons of writing. Within the past few days I applied to a firm in my school's state (my home state), since it's not coming to OCI. This morning, the judge I'm interning with mentioned he knows a partner at the firm and would be happy to write a ROL or do something to get my application noticed. ... This afternoon, got an emailed ding from the firm.

So, what now? Do I just drop it, or should I still ask the judge to put in a good word and essentially pretend the ding didn't happen? This isn't a Vault firm; it's midsize in a secondary (maybe tertiary) market, and I hear the market where it's located is tough for non-locals to break into, even though I'm a native of the state. I'm not particularly attached to the firm, but I do want to get into this market and am worried this is not a good start...

the ding is coming from the hiring department staffed by human-resources folks if it's a reasonable sized firm. It is unlikely anyone with power read your resume. Think this way: your judge appreciates you and considers you worthy of the law firm, his friend, a partner at the lawfirm, will trust his opinion. If his friend thinks you're worth hiring on the basis of personal knowledge, he's going to ask for to come in for an interview, regardless of whether your resume met some firm metrics. It is the person and connection that matters now, not what you had in the resume (though, try to figure out what was insufficient in it and improve it).

I'm at a V15 in NY, 3rd year, feel free to PM for more guidance.

Agree. Can't hurt. Zero downside.

[Anonymous User]

In terms of exit options and career outlook, V25 Chicago office or V10 Dallas office? the former almost exclusively focuses on middle market while the latter has much bigger name clients

[itbdvorm]

In terms of exit options and career outlook, V25 Chicago office or V10 Dallas office? the former almost exclusively focuses on middle market while the latter has much bigger name clients

The most meaningful difference will be where your exit options are (Midwest vs. Texas)

[iamgeorgebush]

How do you recommend approaching the "tell me about yourself" interview question? I've seen a lot of conflicting advice on this.

[scaliaantics]

What is your firm's policy on secundments? Do you think its a good idea for attorneys to do them? How many secundments is too many?

[Anonymous User]

To follow up on the secondments question: I've only ever heard of my firm doing them with Credit Suisse. Are the locations you can do secondments in usually set in stone, or could I try to do one with another one of my firm's clients? How soon in your career is a good time to do one (2 years in, or after 3-4)?

[itbdvorm]

How do you recommend approaching the "tell me about yourself" interview question? I've seen a lot of conflicting advice on this.

Tell me about yourself means "I'm bored, entertain me a little." So say something interesting that also proves / doesn't undercut why you'd make a great associate.

[itbdvorm]

To follow up on the secondments question: I've only ever heard of my firm doing them with Credit Suisse. Are the locations you can do secondments in usually set in stone, or could I try to do one with another one of my firm's clients? How soon in your career is a good time to do one (2 years in, or after 3-4)?

2 secondments may be too many. If the first one isn't an effective job interview, the second one surely is.

Optimal time depends on when / what you're planning for your career long-term. Early secondment is useful to try to figure out what these clients do, later secondment is useful to get hired by the client

I would be surprised if you could do a secondment at another client - usually the firms are required to send people there (or volunteer to do so in order to try to help the relationship)...

[itbdvorm]

Some tips for the OCI/EIP/On-Campus process:

• Do research on firms. Take notes. Take 5 minutes to mention something special about the firm (i.e., Cravath's rotation system, Latham's unassigned system, Kirkland's free-market system, etc.) in an intelligent way (example - "I know Cravath has a rotation system, how did that help you develop your skills as a junior associate?"). No better way to differentiate yourself badly then to not be educated about the simple stuff firms publicize. This won't save a bad candidate, but not knowing it could wreck a good one.
• If you didn't get an interview with a firm at a lottery school, drop by the hospitality suite. Much better to do that, and chat with someone for a few minutes, and possibly get an insta-screening interview, then to try to schedule a follow-up screener later. You can potentially stay "on-cycle" doing it this way.
• If a firm posts grade cuts, believe them. You are not sufficiently special to overcome being below the cut - even by just a hair - unless one of the following applies: URM, related to client, related to royalty, someone putting in a good word, impressive WE. I know all of you K-JDs think you are special snowflakes - you're not, and you're just wasting everyone's time.
• Addendum to the above - firms can, and do, calculate GPAs. Yes, I know, they're not listed on your resumes, but guess what - calculators are everywhere and easy to use.
• Important note for firms with multiple offices - especially if you are interviewing for tough markets (SF, DC being at the top of that list), make sure to indicate interest in other offices if you're so willing. If you are SF or bust, so be it. But if SF is your first choice, but you'd be also happy in SV, or NY, or wherever, you owe it to yourself to let them know. Way too many candidates end up at OK NY firms because they blow bids on top tier firms' DC offices. Every H/Y/S kid wants to work with Ted Olson, Miguel Estrada, Maureen Mahoney or Carter Philips, so they throw on DC offices of Gibson, Latham, Wilmer, Sidley, etc. Getting hired into any of those firms' NY offices is substantially easier, and they're still (obviously) great firms.
• Fit matters. No idea why every associate thinks Cravath is right for him/her. It's probably not. Pay attention, think about the long-term (tough I know) and about who you actually are as a person. It will help you find a better home.
• Good luck. Try to stay sane.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for taking questions. It turns out the firm that I've been really interested in did not even give me screening interview.
can one give it a last try by emailing the partners and try get a screening/ showing up at the interview (as I read somewhere)? Probably I wouldnt have the balls to do the latter, but what about emailing the partners?

Btw, URM, with related work experience, and the partners can put in good words, and the partners work in major practice group.

[DJ JD]

Some tips for the OCI/EIP/On-Campus process:

• Important note for firms with multiple offices - especially if you are interviewing for tough markets (SF, DC being at the top of that list), make sure to indicate interest in other offices if you're so willing. If you are SF or bust, so be it. But if SF is your first choice, but you'd be also happy in SV, or NY, or wherever, you owe it to yourself to let them know. Way too many candidates end up at OK NY firms because they blow bids on top tier firms' DC offices. Every H/Y/S kid wants to work with Ted Olson, Miguel Estrada, Maureen Mahoney or Carter Philips, so they throw on DC offices of Gibson, Latham, Wilmer, Sidley, etc. Getting hired into any of those firms' NY offices is substantially easier, and they're still (obviously) great firms.

I will never understand the lengths that people will go to strive for prestige.

[Anonymous User]

Some tips for the OCI/EIP/On-Campus process:

• If you didn't get an interview with a firm at a lottery school, drop by the hospitality suite. Much better to do that, and chat with someone for a few minutes, and possibly get an insta-screening interview, then to try to schedule a follow-up screener later. You can potentially stay "on-cycle" doing it this way.
• Important note for firms with multiple offices - especially if you are interviewing for tough markets (SF, DC being at the top of that list), make sure to indicate interest in other offices if you're so willing. If you are SF or bust, so be it. But if SF is your first choice, but you'd be also happy in SV, or NY, or wherever, you owe it to yourself to let them know. Way too many candidates end up at OK NY firms because they blow bids on top tier firms' DC offices.

Thank you so much for doing this, I've literally read the entire thing at lunch. I've got some questions about the above. Above median at lower t14 if that makes any difference.

Could you expand more on how to approach the hospitality suite approach? I'm just not really sure how to handle it.

Is there any risk of appearing too willing to work anywhere? Ie, will a pitch of "I love this firm and want to work with them no matter where" be effective, or will it give the impression of lack of direction. I'm concerned because some people say to focus on regional ties everywhere but NYC, and I don't want to blow my chances by appearing too scatterbrained. I'm interviewing with a few firms in multiple markets, and I've been trying to mass-mail up more by saying "I'm already interviewing with you at (X), but I really love the firm and would love to interview at (Y) as well."

Thanks!

[itbdvorm]

Thanks for taking questions. It turns out the firm that I've been really interested in did not even give me screening interview.
can one give it a last try by emailing the partners and try get a screening/ showing up at the interview (as I read somewhere)? Probably I wouldnt have the balls to do the latter, but what about emailing the partners?

Btw, URM, with related work experience, and the partners can put in good words, and the partners work in major practice group.

Totally depends on school / situation. Is "did not give me a screening interview" that you struck out at the lottery? Or that they looked at your resume/GPA and said "nah"?

The last sentence of this made zero sense. If you have a legitimate contact who can help you, you should ask him/her if it's doable. But my guess is you weren't given the interview for a reason. You should absolutely NOT "just show up to the interview."

[itbdvorm]

Some tips for the OCI/EIP/On-Campus process:

• If you didn't get an interview with a firm at a lottery school, drop by the hospitality suite. Much better to do that, and chat with someone for a few minutes, and possibly get an insta-screening interview, then to try to schedule a follow-up screener later. You can potentially stay "on-cycle" doing it this way.
• Important note for firms with multiple offices - especially if you are interviewing for tough markets (SF, DC being at the top of that list), make sure to indicate interest in other offices if you're so willing. If you are SF or bust, so be it. But if SF is your first choice, but you'd be also happy in SV, or NY, or wherever, you owe it to yourself to let them know. Way too many candidates end up at OK NY firms because they blow bids on top tier firms' DC offices.

Thank you so much for doing this, I've literally read the entire thing at lunch. I've got some questions about the above. Above median at lower t14 if that makes any difference.

Could you expand more on how to approach the hospitality suite approach? I'm just not really sure how to handle it.

Is there any risk of appearing too willing to work anywhere? Ie, will a pitch of "I love this firm and want to work with them no matter where" be effective, or will it give the impression of lack of direction. I'm concerned because some people say to focus on regional ties everywhere but NYC, and I don't want to blow my chances by appearing too scatterbrained. I'm interviewing with a few firms in multiple markets, and I've been trying to mass-mail up more by saying "I'm already interviewing with you at (X), but I really love the firm and would love to interview at (Y) as well."

Thanks!

I think it depends on the firm and the cities and your rationale. It is tough to balance both, but I think a thoughtful rationale for why you'd like to work in the specific offices can fly. Saying you're interested in both DC and NY isn't going to get too many crazy reactions as long as you can explain why those are the two areas you're looking at (easy rationale: "top two legal markets in the country based upon my research, but obviously I'm just a law student. I'm most interested in DC because X. I've obviously read online about the differences between your NY and DC offices, such as ____, but what do you think / how do they differ?"). Saying "Uh, I like Boston and San Francisco, even though I'm from Milwaukee" won't work as well, nor will saying you're willing to work anywhere K&L Gates will hire you.

As for the hospitality suite, never hurts to go in and be friendly to the recruiting staff (they may give you good intel), and if you don't get an interview at a lottery process you can usually drop off your resume and express your interest. If there's someone available I know we've had people screen in-suite.

[justkeepswimming794]

Some tips for the OCI/EIP/On-Campus process:

• If you didn't get an interview with a firm at a lottery school, drop by the hospitality suite. Much better to do that, and chat with someone for a few minutes, and possibly get an insta-screening interview, then to try to schedule a follow-up screener later. You can potentially stay "on-cycle" doing it this way.
• Important note for firms with multiple offices - especially if you are interviewing for tough markets (SF, DC being at the top of that list), make sure to indicate interest in other offices if you're so willing. If you are SF or bust, so be it. But if SF is your first choice, but you'd be also happy in SV, or NY, or wherever, you owe it to yourself to let them know. Way too many candidates end up at OK NY firms because they blow bids on top tier firms' DC offices.

Thank you so much for doing this, I've literally read the entire thing at lunch. I've got some questions about the above. Above median at lower t14 if that makes any difference.

Could you expand more on how to approach the hospitality suite approach? I'm just not really sure how to handle it.

Is there any risk of appearing too willing to work anywhere? Ie, will a pitch of "I love this firm and want to work with them no matter where" be effective, or will it give the impression of lack of direction. I'm concerned because some people say to focus on regional ties everywhere but NYC, and I don't want to blow my chances by appearing too scatterbrained. I'm interviewing with a few firms in multiple markets, and I've been trying to mass-mail up more by saying "I'm already interviewing with you at (X), but I really love the firm and would love to interview at (Y) as well."

Thanks!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 3&t=251295 fwiw

[Anonymous User]

I'm a 3L, and I've been in contact with an alum partner who practices in the group in which I'm interested. He asked for my resume/recs and told me to contact him before I head back to school. I saw a job posting for an associate position at this firm in this group.

What's the best way to ask him to pass along my resume/put in a good word without sounding too aggressive/pushy?

[Anonymous User]

If you didn't get an interview with a firm at a lottery school, drop by the hospitality suite. Much better to do that, and chat with someone for a few minutes, and possibly get an insta-screening interview, then to try to schedule a follow-up screener later. You can potentially stay "on-cycle" doing it this way.

\

How do you recommend going about doing this? Straight up asking if they can fit you in somehow?

[itbdvorm]

I'm a 3L, and I've been in contact with an alum partner who practices in the group in which I'm interested. He asked for my resume/recs and told me to contact him before I head back to school. I saw a job posting for an associate position at this firm in this group.

What's the best way to ask him to pass along my resume/put in a good word without sounding too aggressive/pushy?

Polite cover letter, you saw the post, wanted to reiterate your interest. Good luck.

[itbdvorm]

If you didn't get an interview with a firm at a lottery school, drop by the hospitality suite. Much better to do that, and chat with someone for a few minutes, and possibly get an insta-screening interview, then to try to schedule a follow-up screener later. You can potentially stay "on-cycle" doing it this way.

\

How do you recommend going about doing this? Straight up asking if they can fit you in somehow?

"Hi, I'm so and so, very interested in firm x but wasn't selected, here's my info, hi."

[El Pollito]

If you didn't get an interview with a firm at a lottery school, drop by the hospitality suite. Much better to do that, and chat with someone for a few minutes, and possibly get an insta-screening interview, then to try to schedule a follow-up screener later. You can potentially stay "on-cycle" doing it this way.

\

How do you recommend going about doing this? Straight up asking if they can fit you in somehow?

"Hi, I'm so and so, very interested in firm x but wasn't selected, here's my info, hi."

they said lottery school ...

[Anonymous User]

How would you recommend approaching 3L recruiting for a firm that gave you a CB as a 2L but not an offer? Summering at another well regarded firm in the area.

[itbdvorm]

How would you recommend approaching 3L recruiting for a firm that gave you a CB as a 2L but not an offer? Summering another another well regarded firm in the area.

I'd reach out pre-OCI with an interested cover letter explaining why you'd still like to work there

[itbdvorm]

If you didn't get an interview with a firm at a lottery school, drop by the hospitality suite. Much better to do that, and chat with someone for a few minutes, and possibly get an insta-screening interview, then to try to schedule a follow-up screener later. You can potentially stay "on-cycle" doing it this way.

\

How do you recommend going about doing this? Straight up asking if they can fit you in somehow?

"Hi, I'm so and so, very interested in firm x but wasn't selected, here's my info, hi."

they said lottery school ...

Yes I know

[champloo]

Transfer student: T1 25% --> Northwestern, 5+ years W/E (consulting + co-founded a non-tech startup all in a major East Asian country, if it makes any difference), fully bilingual. I've been told I'm a decent interviewer with lots of interesting work experience to talk about, which probably means I'm just a normal person.

There are no non-midwest firms that come to my old school's OCI but nearly all Chicago firms come. I meet the "published" cutoffs from symplicity for 90% of the Chicago firms. I have no idea if I meet the internal cutoffs but the school has around a 30% BL+FC score on LST.

What are the most typical mistakes transfer students make during the initial interview/hiring process?

Other than grades and the usual things you look for in all candidates, do you look for anything in particular when interviewing transfer students that you don't normally look for when interviewing native students?

Thank you in advance.

*edited to sound less neurotic