V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does having a 1L Summer Associateship at a vault ranked firm provide a bump in the screening process? (Is it enough to propel a marginal candidate into a callback or something to that effect?)

[ac8876a]

How easy is it to go an abroad office, such as london, brussels, etc.? specifically if you want to be there permanently

[Anonymous User]

I received an offer for a plaintiff side firm for this summer. How would large law firms view this experience when it comes to 3L hiring?

[Anonymous User]

To add to that clerkship question, do law firms have a preference for certain circuits or district courts? and if between COA and say, SDNY/DDC, does the firm have a preference?

[itbdvorm]

Does having a 1L Summer Associateship at a vault ranked firm provide a bump in the screening process? (Is it enough to propel a marginal candidate into a callback or something to that effect?)

Definitely helpful - not going to turn a no into a yes but goes into the mix of positive info (assuming you get an offer to return for a 2L summer)

[itbdvorm]

How easy is it to go an abroad office, such as london, brussels, etc.? specifically if you want to be there permanently

Depends on the practice of the abroad office and how it fits with yours. If you're a specialist in Illinois Health Care laws, not so transferrable to Paris.

[itbdvorm]

I received an offer for a plaintiff side firm for this summer. How would large law firms view this experience when it comes to 3L hiring?

"fine" I guess - like any other non-large law firm summer gig

[itbdvorm]

To add to that clerkship question, do law firms have a preference for certain circuits or district courts? and if between COA and say, SDNY/DDC, does the firm have a preference?

my guess is certain firms do have certain preferences depending on nature of practice (not all litigation is created equal). I don't know enough about litigation hiring to know specifics for us

[ac8876a]

How easy is it to go an abroad office, such as london, brussels, etc.? specifically if you want to be there permanently

Depends on the practice of the abroad office and how it fits with yours. If you're a specialist in Illinois Health Care laws, not so transferrable to Paris.

So if your doing regular corporate work, it shouldn't be a problem?

[itbdvorm]

How easy is it to go an abroad office, such as london, brussels, etc.? specifically if you want to be there permanently

Depends on the practice of the abroad office and how it fits with yours. If you're a specialist in Illinois Health Care laws, not so transferrable to Paris.

So if your doing regular corporate work, it shouldn't be a problem?

Well, I mean, US M&A is different from London M&A...

If you want to move permanently I think most folks will be willing to have a conversation but a drop may be necessary. Some areas (like US lev fin) are more directly portable because of how deals are done. But it's not a "no problem" across the board.

[Anonymous User]

I received an offer for a plaintiff side firm for this summer. How would large law firms view this experience when it comes to 3L hiring?

"fine" I guess - like any other non-large law firm summer gig

Thanks! What if I want to look for corporate this fall but the summer firm does exclusively litigation? Would I be able to convince firms that I am more interested in transactional work?

[papercutter]

To add to that clerkship question, do law firms have a preference for certain circuits or district courts? and if between COA and say, SDNY/DDC, does the firm have a preference?

my guess is certain firms do have certain preferences depending on nature of practice (not all litigation is created equal). I don't know enough about litigation hiring to know specifics for us

My experience is based on hiring at a litigation-focused firm in a DC/SF/LA market, so YMMV. I think almost all firms would put 2/9 COA above others, and most would include the 5th as well. The DC Circuit is sort of weird, since it's mostly dealing with agency litigation and has so little commercial lit. Some firms/partners are going to put it above 2/9/5, some below. Same with DDC.

Among district courts, the courts that catch my eye first are SDNY, EDNY, CDCA, NDCA, EDVA since they have heavy caseloads and complex cases. Then the court where I'm located. Then a handful of courts where I have a bunch of cases, or I'm familiar with the judges, or have a lot of friends who clerked--basically anything that could give me an impression of your judge or the kind of work you were doing. And of course some courts are good markers for certain kinds of experience: DE, EDVA, EDTX, NDCA for patents, SDNY and CDCA for copyright, SDNY or Delaware chancery for securities/corporate governance. DDC for admin. EDTX is so patent heavy (at least in my mind) that I don't know if I'd seriously think about an EDTX clerk for a non-patent focused position. Same for Delaware chancery and corporate.

COA vs. SDNY/DDC is going to vary by firm and probably by lawyer. I personally am more interested in someone who has a district court clerkship in a tough/busy district than a COA clerkship, but I have partners who disagree with me. If you took a vote in my office I think that on average we'd put SDNY after a 2/9/5 clerkship but above other COAs, but I'm not sure. I think some of the courts above would also fall into that gap, but which ones probably varies a lot across firms. Hope some of that was helpful.

[ac8876a]

How easy is it to go an abroad office, such as london, brussels, etc.? specifically if you want to be there permanently

Depends on the practice of the abroad office and how it fits with yours. If you're a specialist in Illinois Health Care laws, not so transferrable to Paris.

So if your doing regular corporate work, it shouldn't be a problem?

Well, I mean, US M&A is different from London M&A...

If you want to move permanently I think most folks will be willing to have a conversation but a drop may be necessary. Some areas (like US lev fin) are more directly portable because of how deals are done. But it's not a "no problem" across the board.

Can you specify what you mean by drop?

[Anonymous User]

1st year lit associate -- Sometimes I get invited to team meetings, other times I'm conspicuously left out (i.e., 4 of 5 team members in meeting, me being the odd man out, but those 4 are all senior to me). Lately, it's mostly been out. I'm not getting less work; I'm just more cut out of the big picture planning meetings than I had been. Did I do something wrong?

Should also say that I don't think the partner who's organizing (i.e., leaving me out) is unhappy with me. As best I can tell, I am the first junior on the call list when something comes in. My hope is that I'm cut out of the meetings because it costs $300+ / hr to have me there and my sitting there listening is not essential.

[rpupkin]

1st year lit associate -- Sometimes I get invited to team meetings, other times I'm conspicuously left out (i.e., 4 of 5 team members in meeting, me being the odd man out, but those 4 are all senior to me). Lately, it's mostly been out. I'm not getting less work; I'm just more cut out of the big picture planning meetings than I had been. Did I do something wrong?

Probably not. There are plenty of possible explanations that have nothing to do with performance. For example, the billing partner might've gotten push back from the client about junior associates billing too much time to meetings. It's a common complaint. Or perhaps a partner wanted to invite you to the first couple of meetings so that others on the team got to see your face, but didn't feel it necessary to invite you to every meeting going forward.

I wouldn't worry about this.

[Anonymous User]

To add to that clerkship question, do law firms have a preference for certain circuits or district courts? and if between COA and say, SDNY/DDC, does the firm have a preference?

my guess is certain firms do have certain preferences depending on nature of practice (not all litigation is created equal). I don't know enough about litigation hiring to know specifics for us

My experience is based on hiring at a litigation-focused firm in a DC/SF/LA market, so YMMV. I think almost all firms would put 2/9 COA above others, and most would include the 5th as well. The DC Circuit is sort of weird, since it's mostly dealing with agency litigation and has so little commercial lit. Some firms/partners are going to put it above 2/9/5, some below. Same with DDC.

Among district courts, the courts that catch my eye first are SDNY, EDNY, CDCA, NDCA, EDVA since they have heavy caseloads and complex cases. Then the court where I'm located. Then a handful of courts where I have a bunch of cases, or I'm familiar with the judges, or have a lot of friends who clerked--basically anything that could give me an impression of your judge or the kind of work you were doing. And of course some courts are good markers for certain kinds of experience: DE, EDVA, EDTX, NDCA for patents, SDNY and CDCA for copyright, SDNY or Delaware chancery for securities/corporate governance. DDC for admin. EDTX is so patent heavy (at least in my mind) that I don't know if I'd seriously think about an EDTX clerk for a non-patent focused position. Same for Delaware chancery and corporate.

COA vs. SDNY/DDC is going to vary by firm and probably by lawyer. I personally am more interested in someone who has a district court clerkship in a tough/busy district than a COA clerkship, but I have partners who disagree with me. If you took a vote in my office I think that on average we'd put SDNY after a 2/9/5 clerkship but above other COAs, but I'm not sure. I think some of the courts above would also fall into that gap, but which ones probably varies a lot across firms. Hope some of that was helpful.

This has been incredibly helpful. I have a related question. I have an SDNY/EDNY/DDC clerkship after graduation, and I would really love to do a COA clerkship. I think I was pretty competitive for COA, as I was getting interviews for those circuits you mentioned but I just got SDNY/EDNY/DDC first. However, I can't afford to do SDNY/EDNY/DDC-COA back to back, and I'm wondering, how frowned upon it is to have a couple of gap (?) years between a district court clerkship and a COA (I will be working at a big law firm during that time). My firm in particular has shown signs that it REALLY dislikes that kind of trajectory, and I also happen to really like my firm. Should I just forget about COA? or just ignore firm's preference and go for it after a few years? Thank you in advance for your advice.

ETA: 5th circuit preference is new to me! I thought the fourth most desired circuit was 7th, after 2/9/DC. Interesting to see that DC Circuit isn't as appealing to law firms!

[rpupkin]

ETA: 5th circuit preference is new to me! I thought the fourth most desired circuit was 7th, after 2/9/DC. Interesting to see that DC Circuit isn't as appealing to law firms!

Papercutter's district-court breakdown is fine, but his circuit-court assessments—including his references to the Fifth and DC circuits—are ridiculous.

[papercutter]

ETA: 5th circuit preference is new to me! I thought the fourth most desired circuit was 7th, after 2/9/DC. Interesting to see that DC Circuit isn't as appealing to law firms!

Papercutter's district-court breakdown is fine, but his circuit-court assessments—including his references to the Fifth and DC circuits—are ridiculous.

Fair enough. Should have included the 7th circuit. And on the DC Circuit, I think in retrospect that it's probably better to say that traditional firms are going to put it above 2/9, etc. I do think that litigation boutiques are going to vary some, depending on how much they care about prestige vs. experience and what kind of work they do.

[Anonymous User]

At my firm, the appellate folks seem to care a lot (and prefer 2/9/DC or feeder judges from other circuits), but the litigators really don't care very much. The perception is that a district court clerkship in California, Illinois, or NY is probably most useful, but even then I don't think it's a strong preference, let alone a requirement to get hired

[papercutter]

I'm wondering, how frowned upon it is to have a couple of gap (?) years between a district court clerkship and a COA (I will be working at a big law firm during that time). My firm in particular has shown signs that it REALLY dislikes that kind of trajectory, and I also happen to really like my firm. Should I just forget about COA? or just ignore firm's preference and go for it after a few years? Thank you in advance for your advice.

ETA: 5th circuit preference is new to me! I thought the fourth most desired circuit was 7th, after 2/9/DC. Interesting to see that DC Circuit isn't as appealing to law firms!

Depends on if you want to go back to your firm: if they've already indicated that they're not ok with you leaving for a COA clerkship, I wouldn't assume (a) that they'd take you back afterward, (b) that they'd give you credit for the year if you did, or (c) that if they gave you credit for salary purposes that they'd necessarily keep you on the same track for partnership consideration (for what that's worth). If you're thinking about how other firms would view it, then I think 1 year between is fairly common and 2+ is less common. I think you'd be a good candidate at most places with a good district court clerkship, a year of firm experience, and a COA clerkship. With more than a year between, and especially 2+, I think firms would vary on whether they'd give you credit for the COA clerkship, especially at firms with shorter partnership tracks. I have no idea how 1 year vs. more experience plays out in COA hiring.

[Anonymous User]

I'm 2 years out of law school and about to interview for a new firm (BigLaw) in a different practice group. I'll probably get started out as an entry-level associate, but I don't mind because it's the practice group I want to be in.

Have you ever interviewed someone like that? If so, what kinds of questions did you ask them, and what did you expect of them? Did you expect them to demonstrate knowledge in the area of law they were interviewing for, e.g. by asking a question such as "what did you think of the recent decision in ABC vs. XYZ."

Thanks!

[greatspirit]

Major thanks for nearly 6 years of answering questions.

How hard would it be to recruit for NYC biglaw from a Vandy/GWU/UCLA?

[itbdvorm]

I'm 2 years out of law school and about to interview for a new firm (BigLaw) in a different practice group. I'll probably get started out as an entry-level associate, but I don't mind because it's the practice group I want to be in.

Have you ever interviewed someone like that? If so, what kinds of questions did you ask them, and what did you expect of them? Did you expect them to demonstrate knowledge in the area of law they were interviewing for, e.g. by asking a question such as "what did you think of the recent decision in ABC vs. XYZ."

Thanks!

I think so on occasion. I don't know if I'd ask that level of specificity, but would expect a very good reason for desired group, willingness to take a drop, switching firms, etc. You'll need to have a compelling story.

[itbdvorm]

Major thanks for nearly 6 years of answering questions.

How hard would it be to recruit for NYC biglaw from a Vandy/GWU/UCLA?

Depends on the firm, but top of the class at each would be competitive

[Anonymous User]

Hey - just wanted to re-ask this in case it got missed. No worries if you don't feel comfortable answering, of course.
What are your thoughts on transactional associates pursuing federal (DC or COA) clerkships? Totally useless? Does it make it better if the clerkship is right after law school as opposed to a few years out?