V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[ruski]

Considering lawyers who want to eventually run businesses (and hire other lawyers), do you know of anyone who quits biglaw after 2-3 years and attends a top-3 business school to further his/her business ambition? This plan sounds good to me, but one does have to pay extra tuition and forfeit 2 years of biglaw salaries.

i personally know of several people who went this route (going to wharton, harvard, and even stern). they are all insanely successful. none of them run their own business though but have pretty high management/executive positions at established companies, mostly at financial institutions who valued their deal experience

Do you know if a third-party paid for their b-school tuition? Or they just did it themselves (do they even qualify for scholarships given their past high salaries)?

they did it themselves. they said they hated being a lawyer and were fed up with it, so quit their firm, went to b-school, did i-banking for a few/several years upon graduating and then moved on. they are all very happy with their decision. if the only thing you care about is money/success and can get into a top b-school this seems like a no-brainer, as they are financially much better off now than had they stayed working as a lawyer even given the fact they had to pay for b-school. however, i have no idea what kind of toll this took on their professional life, and i know for sure one of them is divorced. i think its near impossible to get scholarship for b-school whether you were making biglaw money or not.

[itbdvorm]

Considering lawyers who want to eventually run businesses (and hire other lawyers), do you know of anyone who quits biglaw after 2-3 years and attends a top-3 business school to further his/her business ambition? This plan sounds good to me, but one does have to pay extra tuition and forfeit 2 years of biglaw salaries.

i personally know of several people who went this route (going to wharton, harvard, and even stern). they are all insanely successful. none of them run their own business though but have pretty high management/executive positions at established companies, mostly at financial institutions who valued their deal experience

Do you know if a third-party paid for their b-school tuition? Or they just did it themselves (do they even qualify for scholarships given their past high salaries)?

I know some folks who have gone this route, others who have just made the switch directly...

[Anonymous User]

Lower T14, median first year, top 15% second year with CALI awards. On a secondary journal and have a 2L biglaw internship in a secondary market where my firm dominates (also most likely will get an offer from the firm). Have a strong interest in one particular area and got a few A's in classes related to that area.

If your firm does hire 3Ls and have openings in that particular area, would I be competitive given that my cumulative GPA is only around top 40%-ish? I want to move up because my current firm does not have a strong practice in the area I am interested in.

Maybe? Probably not with us, but possibly with others. Still, the pitch to switch firms because you want to do X, and they're good at X, is usually better than other pitches...

Thank you!

A follow up: If a firm has a solid practice in one area, but the practice is not considered one of the, let's say, top 5-10 in the market (not band 1-2 in NYC, for example), how much should I emphasize that I truly admire/respect/value the firm's specific practice group? I want to avoid the over-praise problem, if there is ever one.

[itbdvorm]

Lower T14, median first year, top 15% second year with CALI awards. On a secondary journal and have a 2L biglaw internship in a secondary market where my firm dominates (also most likely will get an offer from the firm). Have a strong interest in one particular area and got a few A's in classes related to that area.

If your firm does hire 3Ls and have openings in that particular area, would I be competitive given that my cumulative GPA is only around top 40%-ish? I want to move up because my current firm does not have a strong practice in the area I am interested in.

Maybe? Probably not with us, but possibly with others. Still, the pitch to switch firms because you want to do X, and they're good at X, is usually better than other pitches...

Thank you!

A follow up: If a firm has a solid practice in one area, but the practice is not considered one of the, let's say, top 5-10 in the market (not band 1-2 in NYC, for example), how much should I emphasize that I truly admire/respect/value the firm's specific practice group? I want to avoid the over-praise problem, if there is ever one.

is it what they're best at? is it what you want to do?

[Anonymous User]

Lower T14, median first year, top 15% second year with CALI awards. On a secondary journal and have a 2L biglaw internship in a secondary market where my firm dominates (also most likely will get an offer from the firm). Have a strong interest in one particular area and got a few A's in classes related to that area.

If your firm does hire 3Ls and have openings in that particular area, would I be competitive given that my cumulative GPA is only around top 40%-ish? I want to move up because my current firm does not have a strong practice in the area I am interested in.

Maybe? Probably not with us, but possibly with others. Still, the pitch to switch firms because you want to do X, and they're good at X, is usually better than other pitches...

Thank you!

A follow up: If a firm has a solid practice in one area, but the practice is not considered one of the, let's say, top 5-10 in the market (not band 1-2 in NYC, for example), how much should I emphasize that I truly admire/respect/value the firm's specific practice group? I want to avoid the over-praise problem, if there is ever one.

is it what they're best at? is it what you want to do?

It's not what they are best at, but the firm is perhaps the best firm I have shot at (the band 1-2 firms in that particular practice area are most likely out of my reach). I do have a strong interest in the practice area, and I would feel satisfied working for that firm.

[itbdvorm]

It's not what they are best at, but the firm is perhaps the best firm I have shot at (the band 1-2 firms in that particular practice area are most likely out of my reach). I do have a strong interest in the practice area, and I would feel satisfied working for that firm.

As long as you can sell your interest in that practice area you should be OK following that route (subject to evrything else)

[Anonymous User]

I've read most of this thread and seen you address how things like ibanking/nonprofit WE pre law school effect a resume.

I'm curious as to how firms view candidates who did Teach For America before law school. Is it viewed as indicating a non-profit pattern and therefore indicate someone who may not be so interested in working at a firm long term? Or is it viewed as positive work experience and perhaps give a slight boost?

[Anonymous User]

How do you view leaves of absence after an applicant's 1L year? Does the reason depend on the particular circumstances (e.g. just wanting to travel after 1L vs. death in the family vs. can't afford law school)?

And is there anything that someone taking a leave can do to alleviate any concerns about the person not being dedicated to a legal career, or whatever other concerns one may have about an applicant that does take a leave?

[itbdvorm]

I've read most of this thread and seen you address how things like ibanking/nonprofit WE pre law school effect a resume.

I'm curious as to how firms view candidates who did Teach For America before law school. Is it viewed as indicating a non-profit pattern and therefore indicate someone who may not be so interested in working at a firm long term? Or is it viewed as positive work experience and perhaps give a slight boost?

Depends on how you sell it.

[itbdvorm]

How do you view leaves of absence after an applicant's 1L year? Does the reason depend on the particular circumstances (e.g. just wanting to travel after 1L vs. death in the family vs. can't afford law school)?

And is there anything that someone taking a leave can do to alleviate any concerns about the person not being dedicated to a legal career, or whatever other concerns one may have about an applicant that does take a leave?

All depends. Be ready to sell your interest.

[Anonymous User]

How do you view leaves of absence after an applicant's 1L year? Does the reason depend on the particular circumstances (e.g. just wanting to travel after 1L vs. death in the family vs. can't afford law school)?

And is there anything that someone taking a leave can do to alleviate any concerns about the person not being dedicated to a legal career, or whatever other concerns one may have about an applicant that does take a leave?

All depends. Be ready to sell your interest.

By "interest," do you mean interest in the firm, or in a legal career in general? Or both?

[Anonymous User]

How did you power through periods where you were just burnt out?

Junior to mid-level associate here, coming off a hard stint of high billable months. Prior to this period, and even during, I loved my job. I still enjoy the people and work but am just fried. I took a vacation to recharge but it wasn't enough. I am having trouble staying motivated and am worried my work quality might slip. Any advice?

[itbdvorm]

How do you view leaves of absence after an applicant's 1L year? Does the reason depend on the particular circumstances (e.g. just wanting to travel after 1L vs. death in the family vs. can't afford law school)?

And is there anything that someone taking a leave can do to alleviate any concerns about the person not being dedicated to a legal career, or whatever other concerns one may have about an applicant that does take a leave?

All depends. Be ready to sell your interest.

By "interest," do you mean interest in the firm, or in a legal career in general? Or both?

both

[itbdvorm]

How did you power through periods where you were just burnt out?

Junior to mid-level associate here, coming off a hard stint of high billable months. Prior to this period, and even during, I loved my job. I still enjoy the people and work but am just fried. I took a vacation to recharge but it wasn't enough. I am having trouble staying motivated and am worried my work quality might slip. Any advice?

It's hard. It really is. Vacation / slow time is the key. You need a real gap period sometimes to keep going. Talk to someone more senior you trust, they usually can help...

[r6_philly]

How did you power through periods where you were just burnt out?

Junior to mid-level associate here, coming off a hard stint of high billable months. Prior to this period, and even during, I loved my job. I still enjoy the people and work but am just fried. I took a vacation to recharge but it wasn't enough. I am having trouble staying motivated and am worried my work quality might slip. Any advice?

It's hard. It really is. Vacation / slow time is the key. You need a real gap period sometimes to keep going. Talk to someone more senior you trust, they usually can help...

In your opinion, is it better to take frequent (well relatively) days off or a longish vacation? For example, do you think you get more out of half/full day off personal time (to go golf/beach/etc.)?

[itbdvorm]

How did you power through periods where you were just burnt out?

Junior to mid-level associate here, coming off a hard stint of high billable months. Prior to this period, and even during, I loved my job. I still enjoy the people and work but am just fried. I took a vacation to recharge but it wasn't enough. I am having trouble staying motivated and am worried my work quality might slip. Any advice?

It's hard. It really is. Vacation / slow time is the key. You need a real gap period sometimes to keep going. Talk to someone more senior you trust, they usually can help...

In your opinion, is it better to take frequent (well relatively) days off or a longish vacation? For example, do you think you get more out of half/full day off personal time (to go golf/beach/etc.)?

all really depends on you. some people like to be 100% on, 100% off. some people like to go away tons but anticipate working through many/most vacations. key is just to find a way to make it work

[Anonymous User]

I always gesture my hands while speaking during interviews. I should stop this right?

[fatduck]

any advice on getting (good) work as a junior associate? quality over quantity, or is it important to try to get a lot of work from a lot of people early on?

[anon168]

any advice on getting (good) work as a junior associate? quality over quantity, or is it important to try to get a lot of work from a lot of people early on?

Try to work on small cases, as opposed to the more glamorous headline-catching ones. With smaller cases, partners are more willing and likely to give you substantive work (e.g. court appearances, depos, etc.). If you get stuck on a large case worth multi-billion of dollars and are just one of a slew of associates, you'll most likely get stuck researching and writing memos that get lost in the shuffle.

[Anonymous User]

How did you power through periods where you were just burnt out?

Junior to mid-level associate here, coming off a hard stint of high billable months. Prior to this period, and even during, I loved my job. I still enjoy the people and work but am just fried. I took a vacation to recharge but it wasn't enough. I am having trouble staying motivated and am worried my work quality might slip. Any advice?

It's hard. It really is. Vacation / slow time is the key. You need a real gap period sometimes to keep going. Talk to someone more senior you trust, they usually can help...

Thanks. I have been trying to make more time for myself. My concern with expressing this to anyone at the firm is that I'll be viewed as a flight risk to another firm/in-house/etc. At this point, I'm not; however, I don't want anyone to think otherwise since it happens so regularly at big firms. I'm not sure if expressing these types of feelings to a senior associate or partner will signal that I can't hang (bearing in mind, the hours I was pulling were significantly above any of my peers for 5 months). Is this something partners (or even senior associates) think about much? I trust some people, but it is all people I work closely with. Even if they don't voice these types of concerns to others, I don't want any of these concerns to potential impact their staffing decisions (i.e. they don't staff me on stuff with new, big client X because they are worried that 2 years from now I won't be there). I realize this may seem like a paranoid line of thought, but I have seen how bad it can be for people who are not viewed as having partnership potential... they are slow, concerned about their jobs and don't get as interesting work. From my limited experience, you need to be on a team to survive in a big law firm and I don't want to jeopardize being "in".

[itbdvorm]

any advice on getting (good) work as a junior associate? quality over quantity, or is it important to try to get a lot of work from a lot of people early on?

Try to work on small cases, as opposed to the more glamorous headline-catching ones. With smaller cases, partners are more willing and likely to give you substantive work (e.g. court appearances, depos, etc.). If you get stuck on a large case worth multi-billion of dollars and are just one of a slew of associates, you'll most likely get stuck researching and writing memos that get lost in the shuffle.

certainly (sometimes) true. lots depend on lots of things.

but DEFINITELY quality over quantity. MUCH better to do 2 matters great than 5 matters OK

[itbdvorm]

How did you power through periods where you were just burnt out?

Junior to mid-level associate here, coming off a hard stint of high billable months. Prior to this period, and even during, I loved my job. I still enjoy the people and work but am just fried. I took a vacation to recharge but it wasn't enough. I am having trouble staying motivated and am worried my work quality might slip. Any advice?

It's hard. It really is. Vacation / slow time is the key. You need a real gap period sometimes to keep going. Talk to someone more senior you trust, they usually can help...

Thanks. I have been trying to make more time for myself. My concern with expressing this to anyone at the firm is that I'll be viewed as a flight risk to another firm/in-house/etc. At this point, I'm not; however, I don't want anyone to think otherwise since it happens so regularly at big firms. I'm not sure if expressing these types of feelings to a senior associate or partner will signal that I can't hang (bearing in mind, the hours I was pulling were significantly above any of my peers for 5 months). Is this something partners (or even senior associates) think about much? I trust some people, but it is all people I work closely with. Even if they don't voice these types of concerns to others, I don't want any of these concerns to potential impact their staffing decisions (i.e. they don't staff me on stuff with new, big client X because they are worried that 2 years from now I won't be there). I realize this may seem like a paranoid line of thought, but I have seen how bad it can be for people who are not viewed as having partnership potential... they are slow, concerned about their jobs and don't get as interesting work. From my limited experience, you need to be on a team to survive in a big law firm and I don't want to jeopardize being "in".

no one on your team will (should) take you saying that you need a little break as quitting / fleeing. talented juniors/mid-levels are few and far in between. there's a LONG time before the "partnership potential" should really be a concern. if you're that busy, you probably don't suck. it's the people who suck who get crap work.

[Anonymous User]

Should you bring up a close family loss during 2nd semester finals to explain a GPA drop from 1st semester (if grades come up)? On the one hand, I can understand how recruiters would dislike excuses of any sort since firms expect you to be functioning at 100% capacity, but, on the other, we're only humans, and things of that nature are 'distracting' (to put it extremely mildly).

Thanks for your time, can't believe I haven't come across this thread sooner.

[itbdvorm]

Should you bring up a close family loss during 2nd semester finals to explain a GPA drop from 1st semester (if grades come up)? On the one hand, I can understand how recruiters would dislike excuses of any sort since firms expect you to be functioning at 100% capacity, but, on the other, we're only humans, and things of that nature are 'distracting' (to put it extremely mildly).

Thanks for your time, can't believe I haven't come across this thread sooner.

if it's not a big enough loss for you to have postponed finals...

[Myself]

.