DUI

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Anonymous User
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DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:39 pm

arrested for drunkk driving.. week before numerous callback interviews. is my life over?

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:47 pm

are you even obligated to mention this at callbacks? it's personal, but the main problem i can see with not mentioning it is that it could affect your chances of passing c&f for the bar.

seatown12
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Re: DUI

Postby seatown12 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 12:50 pm

Don't offer the information; I doubt anyone will ask if you've recently been arrested. Get a good DUI lawyer.

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:11 pm

seatown12 wrote:Don't offer the information; I doubt anyone will ask if you've recently been arrested. Get a good DUI lawyer.


yea .. i am getting one.. and i have no conviction yet or anything.. hopefully the lawyer can either get me out of it or plea bargain it. im just worried that when they do a background check if i get a job from my callbacks that this will come up as an open case and they wont hire me bc of it.

miserable.

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
seatown12 wrote:Don't offer the information; I doubt anyone will ask if you've recently been arrested. Get a good DUI lawyer.


yea .. i am getting one.. and i have no conviction yet or anything.. hopefully the lawyer can either get me out of it or plea bargain it. im just worried that when they do a background check if i get a job from my callbacks that this will come up as an open case and they wont hire me bc of it.

miserable.


law firms are unusual & different from any other place i've ever worked in that they don't make you fill out a paper app where you have to own up to things like open criminal cases against you at an early stage of the hiring process. i'm a 2L and haven't actually gone on a callback as of yet, so i can't say for sure what kind of paperwork firms make students fill out as part of the hiring process, but if i were you i'd check with a 3L who's already gotten an offer & summered at a firm to see if you'll have to admit the DUI at some stage of the hiring process. if you have to fill out a paper app & admit to the DUI there, it might look deceptive to hide the information through the callback stage.

that being said, i don't know a non-awkward way of letting someone at the firm know what happened...maybe say something to the recruiter? talk to career services.

ToTransferOrNot
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Re: DUI

Postby ToTransferOrNot » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:18 pm

Enjoy C&F!

Morgan12Oak
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Re: DUI

Postby Morgan12Oak » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:20 pm

i think what makes this especially bad is that it happened during your time at law school as opposed to a mistake you can attribute to being young and immature since you already have made the decision to join the legal profession.

honestly, even if you were to get an offer, it is extremely risky when it comes time for the C&F requirement. given this, i would weigh your odds/chances at big law versus tuition/debt and make an informed decision about that. i also tend to be really conservative but it just seems to me that even if you got an offer, that is only the first step.

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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:27 pm

Morgan12Oak wrote:i think what makes this especially bad is that it happened during your time at law school as opposed to a mistake you can attribute to being young and immature since you already have made the decision to join the legal profession.

honestly, even if you were to get an offer, it is extremely risky when it comes time for the C&F requirement. given this, i would weigh your odds/chances at big law versus tuition/debt and make an informed decision about that. i also tend to be really conservative but it just seems to me that even if you got an offer, that is only the first step.


c&f certainly wouldn't be fun with a dui under your belt, but to put this into perspective i spoke with a family friend who is a lawyer back when i was applying to law school. (i was paranoid enough at that point to think that a couple drinking violations in the dorm my freshman year of college might actually be a huge obstacle to passing c&f...ha.) he basically laughed at me and said he knew of people who had been convicted of armed robbery passing the bar. dui is very serious, don't get me wrong, but i don't think it's going to completely kill your chances of passing c&f, and what matters most is being completely upfront to the bar examiners and to your employer about what happened.

i think the ABA likes to exalt the legal profession as the arbiter of truth and claim that lawyers need outstanding character or some crap like that in order to practice law, but there are so many scumbags out there practicing that it seems strange for a dui to ruin one's chances of passing c&f.

missinglink
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Re: DUI

Postby missinglink » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:31 pm

The firm will do a background check at some point in the process. They don't want to commit to someone who might have significant problems with C&F.

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 1:50 pm

I'm not going to berate you though I'm sure there are plenty who would want to, and who will. The goal of this post is to give you constructive advice and information, and while it will appear encouraging, I want to make it clear from the get-go that obviously this was dumb, consequences could have been much more terrible, etc. That having been said:

(1) Get a good lawyer and get the official charges reduced as much as possible. You can hire your own or look into the student legal group at your school - I had good luck with mine when I ran into some trouble with the law.

(2) Almost all firms will run background checks, but very few firms will run background checks between making a callback and an offer. The offer letters you get will explicitly state your offer of summer employment is contingent on passing a background check and maintaining some decent level of academic performance, though I have never heard of an offer being revoked between OCI and the summer under those clauses. Whether or not you affirmatively disclose will be a difficult question, but I would lean against it. A DUI is embarrassing, and the timing is embarrassing, but the point of the background checks is to insulate the firm form hiring potentially dangerous employees, not to act as a second screen for personality. The process, at all firms with which I am familiar, is about liability and covering asses, not moralizing.

(3) This will obviously be a C&F issue, and you should discuss it in that light with the lawyer you consult with per #1 above. It is not fatal to a C&F application, however.

(4) Obviously DUI is dumb, but you're still alive and your life isn't over. Learn something from what will likely be a hard lesson, but relax a little. This will NOT preclude you from obtaining summer employment and will NOT preclude you from gaining admission to the bar. You need to be honest and you need to take steps to get your life on a track that won't allow this kind of conduct to repeat, but you have not permanently harmed your legal career. I guarantee it. So go ahead and feel like shit and be miserable, because that's the nature of these things, but don't think that you're 'thrown it all away.' You haven't, you will be able to turn things around if you work at it.

Good luck.

lawfirmrecruiter
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Re: DUI

Postby lawfirmrecruiter » Sun Aug 14, 2011 2:11 pm

All firms differ with background checks and application requirements. Whatever their process, be sure you are completely honest whenever you are asked about your background and this DUI. While firms will most likely work with you through this, they absolutely will not tolerate lying or lying by omission.

If they have a formal application, keep in mind that your application is something you put forth as accurate and complete and it will really hurt you if you leave it off.

If there is no application but you fill out the background consent, I would suggest you tell the recruiter that a DUI will appear so there are no surprises.

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:09 pm

lawfirmrecruiter wrote:All firms differ with background checks and application requirements. Whatever their process, be sure you are completely honest whenever you are asked about your background and this DUI. While firms will most likely work with you through this, they absolutely will not tolerate lying or lying by omission.

If they have a formal application, keep in mind that your application is something you put forth as accurate and complete and it will really hurt you if you leave it off.

If there is no application but you fill out the background consent, I would suggest you tell the recruiter that a DUI will appear so there are no surprises.


I agree. The problem is I'm assuming a DUI will not appear. As of right now I am not convicted of anything. So I also don't want to tell them, and its not even on my background. For all I know a miracle could happen and the charges can be reduced to something different. Esp if the question is have you been committed of a crime..the answer to that is still no.

exfacto
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Re: DUI

Postby exfacto » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:46 pm

I'm not saying this to scare you but rather to better inform you so you can make a decision. C & F will definitely have an issue with the DUI, especially since it was during law school. I went through a C & F formal hearing with two Minor in Possessions of Alcohol and two Public Intoxications, the last of which was 5 years ago. I had zero infractions since that period of time (not even a ticket). When I was asked to go through the formal hearing, I obtained an attorney who specialized in this area and was able to get through it with no problems. Scary stuff obviously though to go through 3 years of law school and then in the last year hear you may not get to practice for a little while.

In my state, and based on what my attorney told me, a DUI in law school is a guaranteed formal hearing before Character and Fitness. The recency and seriousness of the violation warrants a thorough review into whether you have issues with alcohol, which they will go into at the hearing.

If I were in your situation, I would contact LAP (Lawyers Assistance Program). You may have to sign a contract whereby you agree not to consume alcohol for up to 5 years. Regular tests are performed to make sure you are in compliance. Usually, courts will allow you to practice after 1 year of compliance with the contract.

I had some friends that got to their 3rd year of law school, submitted their bar application, and then had to go to a formal hearing around March or April to take the bar exam in July. One of my friends was told they would not allow him to practice until he had done one year of compliance (which he could have started his second year). Thus, for his first year out of law school, he cannot practice.

All of this is anecdotal obviously and your states C &F process may be different. Also, I believe you are supposed to tell the law school you are enrolled in about the arrest.

Good luck with everything, we all make mistakes.

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 3:56 pm

The above post actually terrifies me. Would you mind sharing your state? After reading that, I'm getting kind of worried about the fact that I racked up a good number of speeding tickets in high school and college. I've heard some states (including NY, my state) are pretty stringent about C&F for the bar, but it's not like an MIP or public intoxication is equivalent to murdering someone.

exfacto
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Re: DUI

Postby exfacto » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:04 pm

I'd prefer not to share my specific state but I can tell you it is one of the following: Tennessee, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama. I think sharing my specific state would tell too much about me.

I wouldn't worry about too many speeding tickets unless you are continuing to rack up a lot in law school. I didn't think what I had in my past would warrant a C & F formal hearing review, but my attorney said alcohol-related arrests (especially a pattern) are causes of concern for the Bar. I also thought having zero tickets and arrests in the last five years was sufficient to show I had overcome my immaturity, but they still wanted to call me in and hear my story.

Hope that helps.

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:20 pm

exfacto wrote:I'd prefer not to share my specific state but I can tell you it is one of the following: Tennessee, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama. I think sharing my specific state would tell too much about me.

I wouldn't worry about too many speeding tickets unless you are continuing to rack up a lot in law school. I didn't think what I had in my past would warrant a C & F formal hearing review, but my attorney said alcohol-related arrests (especially a pattern) are causes of concern for the Bar. I also thought having zero tickets and arrests in the last five years was sufficient to show I had overcome my immaturity, but they still wanted to call me in and hear my story.

Hope that helps.


Thanks. I know arrests and speeding tickets are probably treated differently by most state bars, but your offenses seemed so common and minor that I was surprised they actually warranted a C&F hearing (probably 3/4 of my UG friends have either MIP or public intox on their record).

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The above post actually terrifies me. Would you mind sharing your state? After reading that, I'm getting kind of worried about the fact that I racked up a good number of speeding tickets in high school and college. I've heard some states (including NY, my state) are pretty stringent about C&F for the bar, but it's not like an MIP or public intoxication is equivalent to murdering someone.



I had a ton of speeding tickets, and when we had to submit stuff to the bar as a 1L, I didn't hear anything about them. Just admit to it and move on.

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:40 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The above post actually terrifies me. Would you mind sharing your state? After reading that, I'm getting kind of worried about the fact that I racked up a good number of speeding tickets in high school and college. I've heard some states (including NY, my state) are pretty stringent about C&F for the bar, but it's not like an MIP or public intoxication is equivalent to murdering someone.



I had a ton of speeding tickets, and when we had to submit stuff to the bar as a 1L, I didn't hear anything about them. Just admit to it and move on.


The bar and 1L submissions are not the same thing.

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The above post actually terrifies me. Would you mind sharing your state? After reading that, I'm getting kind of worried about the fact that I racked up a good number of speeding tickets in high school and college. I've heard some states (including NY, my state) are pretty stringent about C&F for the bar, but it's not like an MIP or public intoxication is equivalent to murdering someone.



I had a ton of speeding tickets, and when we had to submit stuff to the bar as a 1L, I didn't hear anything about them. Just admit to it and move on.


The bar and 1L submissions are not the same thing.



They are in Texas. You have to submit your information as early as possible to the Board of Law Examiners, who certifies you to take the bar exam.

Anonymous User
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Re: DUI

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 14, 2011 4:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The above post actually terrifies me. Would you mind sharing your state? After reading that, I'm getting kind of worried about the fact that I racked up a good number of speeding tickets in high school and college. I've heard some states (including NY, my state) are pretty stringent about C&F for the bar, but it's not like an MIP or public intoxication is equivalent to murdering someone.



I had a ton of speeding tickets, and when we had to submit stuff to the bar as a 1L, I didn't hear anything about them. Just admit to it and move on.


The bar and 1L submissions are not the same thing.


it is for states that accept/require early submission of C&F materials. i believe there are states where you can't even sit for the bar without a C&F certification, which comes from materials law students submit as 1Ls.

NotMyRealName09
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Re: DUI

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:53 pm

Make sure you inform your school. Obtain a copy of your law school application and read it over - where ever you were supposed to disclose arrests / convictions, you HAVE to file a supplement. The reason for this is C&F will pull your law school application and compare it to their records. You do NOT want to leave the impression that you hid anything from your school.

Look, this isn't "legal" advice, but a DUI - assuming no injuries, property damage, or habitual offenses - isn't that bad. The KEY is to DISCLOSE DISCLOSE DISCLOSE.

C&F hates finding lies. So, don't lie. I honestly do not think this will ruin C&F. Yes, it raises a flag, but so long as you learn from your mistake and are forthright as to all questions, you'll make it through.

People make mistakes - fess up and pay the price, show contrition and complete all the terms of your punishment (assuming you plead guilty to something, which you probably will).

NotMyRealName09
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Re: DUI

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Sun Aug 14, 2011 9:55 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
exfacto wrote:I'd prefer not to share my specific state but I can tell you it is one of the following: Tennessee, Louisiana, Texas, Mississippi, Alabama. I think sharing my specific state would tell too much about me.

I wouldn't worry about too many speeding tickets unless you are continuing to rack up a lot in law school. I didn't think what I had in my past would warrant a C & F formal hearing review, but my attorney said alcohol-related arrests (especially a pattern) are causes of concern for the Bar. I also thought having zero tickets and arrests in the last five years was sufficient to show I had overcome my immaturity, but they still wanted to call me in and hear my story.

Hope that helps.


Thanks. I know arrests and speeding tickets are probably treated differently by most state bars, but your offenses seemed so common and minor that I was surprised they actually warranted a C&F hearing (probably 3/4 of my UG friends have either MIP or public intox on their record).


Habitual alcohol offenses are a HUGE red flag. Lawyers love the sauce, and if you couldn't manage it before having a license, C&F wants to be sure you won't fall apart after you get your ticket.

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poprox
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Re: DUI

Postby poprox » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:12 pm

until there has been a trial and conviction, it's nothing more than a baseless allegation. seriously. when it's all said and done THEN you'll know exactly how to report it at C&F ("I was accused of DUI, hardly ever caught sober, the charges were dismissed when I hired poprox to defend me//////") etc

I don't see a good reason to raise your hand and tell interviewers that you've been accused of DUI, unless you know you plan to plead guilty

Aqualibrium
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Re: DUI

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Aug 14, 2011 10:38 pm

I think we're getting away from the main point here. OP, don't inform firms about this, and don't concern yourself with it during callbacks.

exfacto
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Re: DUI

Postby exfacto » Sun Aug 14, 2011 11:24 pm

Sorry, didn't mean to get off track with the point of the thread, just wanted OP to understand the severity of the situation and to make sure he/she plans ahead before it is too late. Agreed that it is way to early where things stand.

OP, with regards to interviews, this will not affect your chances at all. Just make sure you do NOT get any more alcohol-related offenses until the Bar is finished.

Best of luck.




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