Level of safety with six CBs?

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RVP11
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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby RVP11 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:53 pm

What is the point of this thread? OP: are you considering canceling further interviews or callbacks? Are you deciding whether you want to mass mail? If you don't have a decision to make then this thread is useless. Go on your callbacks and do your best. Don't waste time wondering how "safe" you are.

09042014
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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:55 pm

RVP11 wrote:What is the point of this thread? OP: are you considering canceling further interviews or callbacks? Are you deciding whether you want to mass mail? If you don't have a decision to make then this thread is useless. Go on your callbacks and do your best. Don't waste time wondering how "safe" you are.


The person is acting nervous and wants to know they will get a job, and they want people to say she'll be fine.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby flcath » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:07 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
RVP11 wrote:What is the point of this thread? OP: are you considering canceling further interviews or callbacks? Are you deciding whether you want to mass mail? If you don't have a decision to make then this thread is useless. Go on your callbacks and do your best. Don't waste time wondering how "safe" you are.


The person is acting nervous and wants to know they will get a job, and they want people to say she'll be fine.

She will be, which makes it even more irritating.

It's the employment version of those "3.97/178, do I have a shot at HYS?" threads.

09042014
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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby 09042014 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:16 pm

flcath wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
RVP11 wrote:What is the point of this thread? OP: are you considering canceling further interviews or callbacks? Are you deciding whether you want to mass mail? If you don't have a decision to make then this thread is useless. Go on your callbacks and do your best. Don't waste time wondering how "safe" you are.


The person is acting nervous and wants to know they will get a job, and they want people to say she'll be fine.

She will be, which makes it even more irritating.

It's the employment version of those "3.97/178, do I have a shot at HYS?" threads.


Not quite, because 3.97/178 has auto admits. Almost no firm "auto offers" people at callbacks. Going 0 for 6 isn't unheard of.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:26 pm

lawloser22 wrote:
imchuckbass58 wrote:It also helps to figure out the CB/offer ratios of each of the firms you're interviewing with.

For instance some firms (such as S&C) offer upwards of 90% of their CBs. If you're interviewing there, you're pretty set unless you really mess up. Many firms are around 50%, and a bunch are in the 25%-33% range.


and how do you recommend finding out this info?


Many CSOs provide it. If you don't, try to get your hands on another school's stats or ask 3Ls.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:53 pm

OP here. I definitely understand why some people think this thread is useless, upon further thought there isn't much anyone can say besides "do your best with what you have." I was just scared and anxious after my first callback yesterday, and probably posted this without totally thinking it through. That being said I think people have given some good advice in this thread anyway. So thanks for that, and sorry for the clutter.

Just want to say, though, to the person that implied this is some sort of humble-brag...it certainly isn't. This whole process is making me perpetually sick to my stomach, and I'm really not used to feeling that way about big moments like this. So sorry for the clutter, but definitely not any sort of "I know I'll be fine, someone confirm it." More like "I think I'm fucked, someone tell me I'm probably not" - which is still clutter, but not a brag in any way.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby rayiner » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:OP here. I definitely understand why some people think this thread is useless, upon further thought there isn't much anyone can say besides "do your best with what you have." I was just scared and anxious after my first callback yesterday, and probably posted this without totally thinking it through. That being said I think people have given some good advice in this thread anyway. So thanks for that, and sorry for the clutter.

Just want to say, though, to the person that implied this is some sort of humble-brag...it certainly isn't. This whole process is making me perpetually sick to my stomach, and I'm really not used to feeling that way about big moments like this. So sorry for the clutter, but definitely not any sort of "I know I'll be fine, someone confirm it." More like "I think I'm fucked, someone tell me I'm probably not" - which is still clutter, but not a brag in any way.


Realize that you got a CB because at least one person at the firm wants to hire you. He or she will make a case for you. Think of the callback as helping him or her make that case. You have a shot at every one if you wow your interiewers.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby dresden doll » Sat Aug 13, 2011 1:58 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Not quite, because 3.97/178 has auto admits. Almost no firm "auto offers" people at callbacks. Going 0 for 6 isn't unheard of.


SulCrom does.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:02 pm

dresden doll wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Not quite, because 3.97/178 has auto admits. Almost no firm "auto offers" people at callbacks. Going 0 for 6 isn't unheard of.

SulCrom does.

S&C gives 90% offers or so. That's as close to an "auto offer" as one can get, but it's still not a guarantee. I'm curious what it takes to get rejected after a S&C callback.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Not quite, because 3.97/178 has auto admits. Almost no firm "auto offers" people at callbacks. Going 0 for 6 isn't unheard of.

SulCrom does.

S&C gives 90% offers or so. That's as close to an "auto offer" as one can get, but it's still not a guarantee. I'm curious what it takes to get rejected after a S&C callback.


Different anon with the same question.

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rayiner
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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby rayiner » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Not quite, because 3.97/178 has auto admits. Almost no firm "auto offers" people at callbacks. Going 0 for 6 isn't unheard of.

SulCrom does.

S&C gives 90% offers or so. That's as close to an "auto offer" as one can get, but it's still not a guarantee. I'm curious what it takes to get rejected after a S&C callback.


Different anon with the same question.


Peeing on partners desk.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:43 pm

Go into every call back giving it your all, even if you aren't "set" on the firm. I had SIX call backs last year, with ZERO offers. It was a horrible experience, and I'll now be floundering through 3L OCI with little or no hope. I think that as I progressed through the call backs I became more and more stressed because I didn't hear back from anyone. Don't let that happen. Anyways, my situation was not normal, it was the exception to the rule.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Go into every call back giving it your all, even if you aren't "set" on the firm. I had SIX call backs last year, with ZERO offers. It was a horrible experience, and I'll now be floundering through 3L OCI with little or no hope. I think that as I progressed through the call backs I became more and more stressed because I didn't hear back from anyone. Don't let that happen. Anyways, my situation was not normal, it was the exception to the rule.


Can you share which firms they were or what rankings range of firm? That is really shocking, as most firms average around 50% offers.

What do you think you could've done better at each of the CBs? Were they just in a tough market? (E.g., DC/CA) or did you think you did something wrong but differently wrong at each one?

Thanks!!

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Go into every call back giving it your all, even if you aren't "set" on the firm. I had SIX call backs last year, with ZERO offers. It was a horrible experience, and I'll now be floundering through 3L OCI with little or no hope. I think that as I progressed through the call backs I became more and more stressed because I didn't hear back from anyone. Don't let that happen. Anyways, my situation was not normal, it was the exception to the rule.


Can you share which firms they were or what rankings range of firm? That is really shocking, as most firms average around 50% offers.

What do you think you could've done better at each of the CBs? Were they just in a tough market? (E.g., DC/CA) or did you think you did something wrong but differently wrong at each one?

Thanks!!


Firms may offer 50% but it's not random chance. It's the same 50% of people who manage to come across as eager, mature, responsible, maybe a bit charming. You have to gun every cb like it's your only one.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:30 pm

You have to gun every cb like it's your only one.


This.

I currently have 12 CB's (8 from OCI and 4 from mass mail and connections from my summer job), and I plan on pursuing every one as if it was my only one. I will not even consider canceling one until I have an offer from a place I want to work.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby pren » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:31 pm

AffordablePrep wrote:You only need 4 CB's for an NFL roster. Most teams keep 5 on the active roster. 6 is definitely safe. If more than 2 go on IR, just move over a backup safety.


This is the best advice I've seen here! :D

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:31 pm

That 50% statistic is what CDO told me last year, and it's BS. All of my firms were in the Bay Area and LA. I spoke with the firms after I was rejected (a few months after) to get some constructive comments on how to improve. They explained that they had brought back about 40 or so for callbacks and they were only planning on hiring 2-5, depending on the firm. I guess that one of the big pieces of advice that I would also give would be to schedule as early as possible. I was told that I interviewed fine, but they had filled up most of the slots before I interviewed (So really, I was probably competing with 20 other guys for one or two slots). These were all V50 or better firms, and I was coming from a T10, perfect regional ties, and top grades.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:38 pm

So when you guys talk about going after it hard at the callback, I guess I just don't what that means or how to implement that. For the one I had already, I went in there fairly well informed about the firm and the people I was meeting with, answered questions honestly as best I could, tried to ask intelligent questions, answered questions about what I was looking for in a firm by basically highlighting traits that exist at that firm, and tried to make a connection by asking some questions about things unique to them. I don't really know what else to do. I've read plenty of advice on callbacks...but it's all very vague stuff that I am already doing/trying to do.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 4:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
dresden doll wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:Not quite, because 3.97/178 has auto admits. Almost no firm "auto offers" people at callbacks. Going 0 for 6 isn't unheard of.

SulCrom does.

S&C gives 90% offers or so. That's as close to an "auto offer" as one can get, but it's still not a guarantee. I'm curious what it takes to get rejected after a S&C callback.


Different anon with the same question.


I got no-offered on a SullCrom CB. I thought the callback went extremely well, as well. I sometimes wonder whether my un-prestigious undergrad (basically a community college) and lack of work experience had anything to do with it

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I got no-offered on a SullCrom CB. I thought the callback went extremely well, as well. I sometimes wonder whether my un-prestigious undergrad (basically a community college) and lack of work experience had anything to do with it


This is why I disbelieve people who say that your paper credentials don't matter on CBs. I really think they can still matter a lot.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I got no-offered on a SullCrom CB. I thought the callback went extremely well, as well. I sometimes wonder whether my un-prestigious undergrad (basically a community college) and lack of work experience had anything to do with it


This is why I disbelieve people who say that your paper credentials don't matter on CBs. I really think they can still matter a lot.

I haven't had enough CBs to know, but I suspect this is true. I had this nagging feeling during a recent CB that although the person who did the screener liked me a lot (which obviously why I got the CB), everyone else was less than impressed by my stats before I ever showed up, and that unfortunately I did nothing to improve their disposition. But of course I will never know.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:20 pm

i know a student at MVP who went 0/5 on callbacks.

take that for what it's worth.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 5:28 pm

I got no-offered on a SullCrom CB. I thought the callback went extremely well, as well. I sometimes wonder whether my un-prestigious undergrad (basically a community college) and lack of work experience had anything to do with it[/quote]

What kind of questions did they ask you during the callback? Was it similar to the screener or did they go more indepth in any way? If you performed just as well, then it doesn't make sense for the firm to have rejected you based on your qualifications alone.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:So when you guys talk about going after it hard at the callback, I guess I just don't what that means or how to implement that. For the one I had already, I went in there fairly well informed about the firm and the people I was meeting with, answered questions honestly as best I could, tried to ask intelligent questions, answered questions about what I was looking for in a firm by basically highlighting traits that exist at that firm, and tried to make a connection by asking some questions about things unique to them. I don't really know what else to do. I've read plenty of advice on callbacks...but it's all very vague stuff that I am already doing/trying to do.


It's hard to describe, because a lot of it is personality stuff. You have to read your interviewer and figure out what they're looking for.

To describe a callback that I felt like I nailed: The first interviewer seemed pretty down to business, so I talked about why I liked the firm from a business perspective (leverage ratios ITE, etc). Another interviewer happened to have a similar work background, so we bonded over that. Another interviewer thought my work background was relevant to a new practice at the firm, so I played that up. The final interviewer had a very "dad" tone, so I tried to come across as someone young and eager to learn.

IMHO callbacks are more personality than substance. You're not going to nail a CB by rattling off facts you read off the website. In fact that can often make you seem mechanical and creepy. Think about it from a partner's point of view. What would you want in an associate? What does the specific partner interviewing you seem to want in an associate? Try to come across as having those qualities.

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Re: Level of safety with six CBs?

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Aug 13, 2011 6:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:So when you guys talk about going after it hard at the callback, I guess I just don't what that means or how to implement that. For the one I had already, I went in there fairly well informed about the firm and the people I was meeting with, answered questions honestly as best I could, tried to ask intelligent questions, answered questions about what I was looking for in a firm by basically highlighting traits that exist at that firm, and tried to make a connection by asking some questions about things unique to them. I don't really know what else to do. I've read plenty of advice on callbacks...but it's all very vague stuff that I am already doing/trying to do.


It's hard to describe, because a lot of it is personality stuff. You have to read your interviewer and figure out what they're looking for.

To describe a callback that I felt like I nailed: The first interviewer seemed pretty down to business, so I talked about why I liked the firm from a business perspective (leverage ratios ITE, etc). Another interviewer happened to have a similar work background, so we bonded over that. Another interviewer thought my work background was relevant to a new practice at the firm, so I played that up. The final interviewer had a very "dad" tone, so I tried to come across as someone young and eager to learn.

IMHO callbacks are more personality than substance. You're not going to nail a CB by rattling off facts you read off the website. In fact that can often make you seem mechanical and creepy. Think about it from a partner's point of view. What would you want in an associate? What does the specific partner interviewing you seem to want in an associate? Try to come across as having those qualities.


Very nice explanation, thanks!




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