Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

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Veyron
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Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Veyron » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:42 am

Everyone I met with? If so, is sending them all the same letter fine?

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Cavalier
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Cavalier » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:46 am

Don't do thank you letters. This topic is often discussed on TLS so if you search for it, you'll find plenty of threads. Basically, a thank-you is unlikely to help you at all, but screwing up (by making a typo or sending everyone the same thing) can hurt. So it's a matter of risk vs. reward.

Absolutely do not send everyone the same thing. In case the firm files away all of your communications with its attorneys (this is not an unheard of practice), you don't want the hiring committee to see that you were too lazy to send tailored thank yous. Since you have to write five or six different thank yous, this drastically increases the chance you'll make a typo.

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Veyron
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Veyron » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:55 am

Cavalier wrote:Don't do thank you letters. This topic is often discussed on TLS so if you search for it, you'll find plenty of threads. Basically, a thank-you is unlikely to help you at all, but screwing up (by making a typo or sending everyone the same thing) can hurt. So it's a matter of risk vs. reward.

Absolutely do not send everyone the same thing. In case the firm files away all of your communications with its attorneys (this is not an unheard of practice), you don't want the hiring committee to see that you were too lazy to send tailored thank yous. Since you have to write five or six different thank yous, this drastically increases the chance you'll make a typo.


I feel like I at least need to send the partner who set it up a thank-you.. I thought the no thank you thing was for OCI screeners?

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Cavalier
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Cavalier » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:10 am

Veyron wrote:
Cavalier wrote:Don't do thank you letters. This topic is often discussed on TLS so if you search for it, you'll find plenty of threads. Basically, a thank-you is unlikely to help you at all, but screwing up (by making a typo or sending everyone the same thing) can hurt. So it's a matter of risk vs. reward.

Absolutely do not send everyone the same thing. In case the firm files away all of your communications with its attorneys (this is not an unheard of practice), you don't want the hiring committee to see that you were too lazy to send tailored thank yous. Since you have to write five or six different thank yous, this drastically increases the chance you'll make a typo.

I feel like I at least need to send the partner who set it up a thank-you.. I thought the no thank you thing was for OCI screeners?

No, it's for both. If you got the callback through a connection to a partner or something then I'd thank him, but thanking the attorneys who simply interviewed you is generally pointless.

Renzo
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Renzo » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:33 am

What are you thanking them for? They have a job to fill, and they are considering you for it. Thank them when they give it to you.

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Veyron » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:36 am

Renzo wrote:What are you thanking them for? They have a job to fill, and they are considering you for it. Thank them when they give it to you.


Lawyers are busy. They could decide not to participate in the call back, meaning that I would have speak with less people and get a worse view of the firm. In that sense they are advancing their own interests but also doing me a service.

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blurbz
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby blurbz » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:57 am

I disagree with the statement that TY letters can never help you. If two candidates are fairly similar and the interviewers need to find a way to differentiate them, the one who wrote the thank you letter will get the nod. They can hurt, of course, if you have typos in them so you just have to be careful. Just keep them short and personalized to each recipient and you'll be good to go.

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Renzo » Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:37 pm

blurbz wrote:I disagree with the statement that TY letters can never help you. If two candidates are fairly similar and the interviewers need to find a way to differentiate them, the one who wrote the thank you letter will get the nod. They can hurt, of course, if you have typos in them so you just have to be careful. Just keep them short and personalized to each recipient and you'll be good to go.


No, it's really pretty weird to thank someone for interviewing you for a job before you know the results of the interview.

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby kdw94780 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 3:02 pm

Renzo wrote:
blurbz wrote:I disagree with the statement that TY letters can never help you. If two candidates are fairly similar and the interviewers need to find a way to differentiate them, the one who wrote the thank you letter will get the nod. They can hurt, of course, if you have typos in them so you just have to be careful. Just keep them short and personalized to each recipient and you'll be good to go.


No, it's really pretty weird to thank someone for interviewing you for a job before you know the results of the interview.


You can thank them for (1) choosing to spend time interviewing you, and (2) giving info about firm, etc. I don't think the only reason to thank someone is when you get the job offer. That's just silly.

IMO, I would err on the side of caution and send a TY note. I think not sending one won't necessarily bother some interviewers, but there's always the chance that not sending one when someone else sends one can hurt you.

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:03 pm

Cavalier wrote:Don't do thank you letters.

Aqualibrium
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Aqualibrium » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:09 pm

blurbz wrote:I disagree with the statement that TY letters can never help you. If two candidates are fairly similar and the interviewers need to find a way to differentiate them, the one who wrote the thank you letter will get the nod. They can hurt, of course, if you have typos in them so you just have to be careful. Just keep them short and personalized to each recipient and you'll be good to go.


Didn't take the time to look at your post history to confirm this, but, based on the quoted statement, I'm guessing that you're a 1L or 0L who has never actually gone through the legal recruiting/hiring process. That's not the way it works...

On to the main topic, as Renzo said, what are you thanking them for? What is the deal with law students and perverting/making complicated simple things...

In real life, you send a thank you when someone does something that deserves thanks. You don't send them as a precautionary measure or just for the hell of it. You guys need to understand the attorneys and staff you meet with are real people with real lives. They'll see through ass kissing, hollow gestures, and fake modesty. Just relax, do your interview, and move one with your life. If not sending a thank you card or licking someone's boot is the reason you don't get the job, you probably wouldn't have been happy in that environment anyway.

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:22 pm

On the callback-style interview I had through mass mails, several of the interviewers gave me their cards and asked me to follow up with questions, etc. so I plan to do that since I know the hiring committee there isn't meeting for a while; but I'm not sending generic thank you's.

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kdw94780
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby kdw94780 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:25 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
blurbz wrote:I disagree with the statement that TY letters can never help you. If two candidates are fairly similar and the interviewers need to find a way to differentiate them, the one who wrote the thank you letter will get the nod. They can hurt, of course, if you have typos in them so you just have to be careful. Just keep them short and personalized to each recipient and you'll be good to go.


Didn't take the time to look at your post history to confirm this, but, based on the quoted statement, I'm guessing that you're a 1L or 0L who has never actually gone through the legal recruiting/hiring process. That's not the way it works...

On to the main topic, as Renzo said, what are you thanking them for? What is the deal with law students and perverting/making complicated simple things...

In real life, you send a thank you when someone does something that deserves thanks. You don't send them as a precautionary measure or just for the hell of it. You guys need to understand the attorneys and staff you meet with are real people with real lives. They'll see through ass kissing, hollow gestures, and fake modesty. Just relax, do your interview, and move one with your life. If not sending a thank you card or licking someone's boot is the reason you don't get the job, you probably wouldn't have been happy in that environment anyway.



Everywhere, you have to kiss ass. I'm currently going through the recruiting process, and I completely disagree with you.

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:28 pm

kdw94780 wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
blurbz wrote:I disagree with the statement that TY letters can never help you. If two candidates are fairly similar and the interviewers need to find a way to differentiate them, the one who wrote the thank you letter will get the nod. They can hurt, of course, if you have typos in them so you just have to be careful. Just keep them short and personalized to each recipient and you'll be good to go.


Didn't take the time to look at your post history to confirm this, but, based on the quoted statement, I'm guessing that you're a 1L or 0L who has never actually gone through the legal recruiting/hiring process. That's not the way it works...

On to the main topic, as Renzo said, what are you thanking them for? What is the deal with law students and perverting/making complicated simple things...

In real life, you send a thank you when someone does something that deserves thanks. You don't send them as a precautionary measure or just for the hell of it. You guys need to understand the attorneys and staff you meet with are real people with real lives. They'll see through ass kissing, hollow gestures, and fake modesty. Just relax, do your interview, and move one with your life. If not sending a thank you card or licking someone's boot is the reason you don't get the job, you probably wouldn't have been happy in that environment anyway.



Everywhere, you have to kiss ass. I'm currently going through the recruiting process, and I completely disagree with you.


I work with recruiting at my firm, and agree with Aqualibrium and Renzo. My firm is huge with a major recruiting operation, however, so it's possible that things are different at smaller / more close knit firms.

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:33 pm

kdw94780 wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:
blurbz wrote:I disagree with the statement that TY letters can never help you. If two candidates are fairly similar and the interviewers need to find a way to differentiate them, the one who wrote the thank you letter will get the nod. They can hurt, of course, if you have typos in them so you just have to be careful. Just keep them short and personalized to each recipient and you'll be good to go.


Didn't take the time to look at your post history to confirm this, but, based on the quoted statement, I'm guessing that you're a 1L or 0L who has never actually gone through the legal recruiting/hiring process. That's not the way it works...

On to the main topic, as Renzo said, what are you thanking them for? What is the deal with law students and perverting/making complicated simple things...

In real life, you send a thank you when someone does something that deserves thanks. You don't send them as a precautionary measure or just for the hell of it. You guys need to understand the attorneys and staff you meet with are real people with real lives. They'll see through ass kissing, hollow gestures, and fake modesty. Just relax, do your interview, and move one with your life. If not sending a thank you card or licking someone's boot is the reason you don't get the job, you probably wouldn't have been happy in that environment anyway.



Everywhere, you have to kiss ass. I'm currently going through the recruiting process, and I completely disagree with you.


FWIW, I've received two offers so far, and I sent handwritten thank-you notes to all of the people I interviewed with plus the recruiting coordinator at both firms.

(Anon cause I've been outed.)

$$$$$$
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby $$$$$$ » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:46 pm

I send thank you emails to everyone I met and the recruiter. I understand where people are coming from, but in this economy I think taking the extra 5 minutes to email something saying "it was a pleasure to meet you, your firm seems like an outstanding place to work. Have a fantastic summer", or something like that is perfectly fine. I don't know how close attention is paid to these emails, but id assume the person looks at it for 10 seconds and deletes it, so I don't think its a big deal

NotMyRealName09
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby NotMyRealName09 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 4:56 pm

I completely disagree with people who say don't send thank you letters. My 30 minutes I just spent to even consider offering you a job, which I could have been billing and making money, is worth a fricken thank you note.

I notice if I don't get a thank you. If two candidates are exactly the same and one thanks me politely, that person gets my nod.

The rationale here, from what I can gather (I never looked too deeply into the rationale because it is such a facially stupid concept not to write thank you letters), is that you might hurt yourself with a typo. Ooooookkkkkk, so proofread – you are training to be a lawyer, right? Don’t you practice writing in school? Impress me with your three sentences of flawless English and basic manners.

If you thank people for holding the door open for you as you walk into a store, you also thank them for taking time from their day to present you with an opportunity to impress and secure employment. (I bet the non-thank you noters don't thank people for holding the door open either).

Not sending a thank you note makes me think you are an arrogant and entitled asshole, just going through the motions until someone starts cutting you fat checks, an eventuality apparently so certain that the people who interviewed you should be thanking YOU for the opportunity to persuade you to join the firm. No, prick, what actually happened is the recruiting committee partner just told me to make a 30 minute hole in my day to squeeze in a "recruit," so don't ruin whatever good feeling you may have left me with by not even acknowledging the fact that I - a person whose minutes make money - stopped making money for a while to give you a chance to wow me.

Thank me because now I have to work 30 minutes later thanks to you.

And if your firm has a policy of looking down on thank you notes, your firm is full of assholes, a not too uncommon reality for many law firms.

Amazing that someone above says you "wouldn't" want to work at a place that dinged you for being a rude-ass who doesn't write thank you notes. So, I guess that person really wants to work in a place full of selfish assholes whose mothers taught them its ok to thanklessly use people, so long as you are getting ahead. To each their own.

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:04 pm

Ok, here's one for the TLS commentariat:

Is a thank you note after a callback scheduled for last Wednesday too late? Or is this a 'better late than never' kind of thing?

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kdw94780
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby kdw94780 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:06 pm

NotMyRealName09 wrote:I completely disagree with people who say don't send thank you letters. My 30 minutes I just spent to even consider offering you a job, which I could have been billing and making money, is worth a fricken thank you note.

I notice if I don't get a thank you. If two candidates are exactly the same and one thanks me politely, that person gets my nod.

The rationale here, from what I can gather (I never looked too deeply into the rationale because it is such a facially stupid concept not to write thank you letters), is that you might hurt yourself with a typo. Ooooookkkkkk, so proofread – you are training to be a lawyer, right? Don’t you practice writing in school? Impress me with your three sentences of flawless English and basic manners.

If you thank people for holding the door open for you as you walk into a store, you also thank them for taking time from their day to present you with an opportunity to impress and secure employment. (I bet the non-thank you noters don't thank people for holding the door open either).

Not sending a thank you note makes me think you are an arrogant and entitled asshole, just going through the motions until someone starts cutting you fat checks, an eventuality apparently so certain that the people who interviewed you should be thanking YOU for the opportunity to persuade you to join the firm. No, prick, what actually happened is the recruiting committee partner just told me to make a 30 minute hole in my day to squeeze in a "recruit," so don't ruin whatever good feeling you may have left me with by not even acknowledging the fact that I - a person whose minutes make money - stopped making money for a while to give you a chance to wow me.

Thank me because now I have to work 30 minutes later thanks to you.

And if your firm has a policy of looking down on thank you notes, your firm is full of assholes, a not too uncommon reality for many law firms.

Amazing that someone above says you "wouldn't" want to work at a place that dinged you for being a rude-ass who doesn't write thank you notes. So, I guess that person really wants to work in a place full of selfish assholes whose mothers taught them its ok to thanklessly use people, so long as you are getting ahead. To each their own.


+1...

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby imchuckbass58 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:08 pm

People in this thread seem to misapprehend how legal hiring works at most firms. By the time you are back in your apartment, your interviewers have likely already submitted their feedback, and are no longer involved in the process. At that point your file has moved on to the hiring committee, so unless (1) your interviewer is on the hiring committee, or (2) your thank you note is so incredible it compels your interviewer to contact the hiring committee of his own accord and sing your praises, it will do nothing.

CLS held a panel with hiring partners during EIP last year, and this question was asked. The panel was split, with half saying "no, don't do it" and the other half saying "do whatever you want, but it will never make a difference." One guy specifically cited the fact that your thank you will arrive after your interviewer has already submitted feedback.

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RVP11
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:21 pm

1. Your thank-you letter will probably arrive after each attorney has given feedback.

2. It takes a LONG time to write perfect (meaning ABSOLUTELY NO ERRORS) personalized thank-you letters for each attorney you interviewed with.

3. Because of 2., if I were an attorney I would assume that anyone sending me a thank-you is doing so because they have very few callbacks. That's not a good impression.

4. If there is an egregious error in the thank-you letter, it WILL make a difference. An attorney might forward it to the hiring committee.

5. This thread = a bunch of 3Ls (Cav, Renzo, Aqualibrium, Chuckbass, me) saying "don't bother" and a bunch of 2L/1L/0Ls (posters I've never seen in the Legal Employment forum) saying "do it." Draw your own conclusion from that.

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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:32 pm

RVP11 wrote:
5. This thread = a bunch of 3Ls (Cav, Renzo, Aqualibrium, Chuckbass, me) saying "don't bother" and a bunch of 2L/1L/0Ls (posters I've never seen in the Legal Employment forum) saying "do it." Draw your own conclusion from that.


Don't most ppl post anonymously in the legal employment forum anyway...

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RVP11
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby RVP11 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
RVP11 wrote:
5. This thread = a bunch of 3Ls (Cav, Renzo, Aqualibrium, Chuckbass, me) saying "don't bother" and a bunch of 2L/1L/0Ls (posters I've never seen in the Legal Employment forum) saying "do it." Draw your own conclusion from that.


Don't most ppl post anonymously in the legal employment forum anyway...


Yeah, most 2Ls do. TYFT.

gp86
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby gp86 » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:37 pm

Like others have said, your interviewers will have submitted your feedback by the time they would have received a thank-you note. Why not just shake their hands and thank them at the end of the interview?

de5igual
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Re: Who do I write thank you letters to after callback?

Postby de5igual » Mon Aug 15, 2011 5:59 pm

Does the market matter, though? I remember reading somewhere that southern firms, in particular, care more about formalities like thank you notes.




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