Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:08 am

Has anyone gotten or heard of an offer for Husch STL?

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:16 am

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone gotten or heard of an offer for Husch STL?

I would be very interested to learn of any Husch STL movement as well.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone gotten or heard of an offer for Husch STL?

i've heard of one at WUSTL. no clue about grades, etc. though, sorry.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:51 am

Any news from Dinsmore & Shohl?

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:From what I can tell, most of the top (10% + LR + 1337 interview skills) of the class at UIUC is getting Chicago, so it's not just Harvard kids taking all the jobs.

I think this is also the case at WUSTL, there's just a pretty strong drop-off in Chicago opportunities outside of that range. Many of our top students who didn't transfer up successfully targeted other markets, and probably could've landed Chicago SAs. I don't think that anyone's suggesting top students who interview well can't get Chicago from WUSTL, but no one should assume they'll be one of those students.
Yeah, Chicago's doable with top grades but WUSTL's class is more geographically diverse so a lot of our top people are looking at other markets.



+1. Definitely a pro/con for WUSTL. You'll find that WUSTL probably has alumni more spread out across the country than other schools in our peer group which does have benefits, but it is comparatively weaker in having one city where a superfluity of alumni are located. STL is of course very strong, NYC is still pretty solid, Chicago is good in boom times but lagging in the last 4 years, and DC is gradually on the way up.


NYC is not strong at all. WUSTL has over 300 students a year almost 2x bigger than vandy yey they have prob 1/2 as many lawyers in NLJ250 firms as compared to vandy.....
Same problem in DC....


WUSTl has been graduating 300+ attorneys now for a while. Where are these graduates? They aren't in Cleveland or Detroit... I think out of the top 6 firms in Cleveland there are only 3 WUSTL grads....
In Detroit there are only 4-5 out of hte top 6 firms. How can they call themselves a regional powerhouse when they can't even place close to ND in the midwest....
Wustl is NOT good for the upper midwaste... Indiana/Michshitgan/Ohio/Wisconsin.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:59 pm

If you look at all the big firms in the Midwest outside of maybe KC and STL, you see very few WUSTL grads. In Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit, Milwaukee, MPLS, Des Moines, etc there are like 1 or 2 wustl grades per large firm, most have 0 grads or people who graduated in the 70s-80s. The hard truth i think is that most wustl kids end up in small/shit lawl in small towns or cities. Many will probably do/will move to non law. Wustl kids aren't even a majority at the STL firms, it's silly.

Remember, until recently, say 1995 or so, WUSTL law was a weak/regional school. Objectively "better" than SLU, but not as connected to St. Louis firms/culture. Wustl Law was/is perceived by locals as being "Big time" or "elitist" even when it was really no big deal. I think the undergrad reputation is cast on the law school, which normally would be a good thing, but not when it comes to getting local jobs. Everyone here seems to have a napoleon complex or a chip on their shoulders, and they take it out on grads by claiming "we are risky" or "not committed" to the market. It's funny that we are considered flight risks when they plan to fire most of us in 4-5 years anyway.


So in short WUSTL: No national reach, no home market. Getting a job comes down to hustling, hard work, and a little bit of luck.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:If you look at all the big firms in the Midwest outside of maybe KC and STL, you see very few WUSTL grads. In Cleveland, Cincinnati, Columbus, Detroit, Milwaukee, MPLS, Des Moines, etc there are like 1 or 2 wustl grades per large firm, most have 0 grads or people who graduated in the 70s-80s. The hard truth i think is that most wustl kids end up in small/shit lawl in small towns or cities. Many will probably do/will move to non law. Wustl kids aren't even a majority at the STL firms, it's silly.

Remember, until recently, say 1995 or so, WUSTL law was a weak/regional school. Objectively "better" than SLU, but not as connected to St. Louis firms/culture. Wustl Law was/is perceived by locals as being "Big time" or "elitist" even when it was really no big deal. I think the undergrad reputation is cast on the law school, which normally would be a good thing, but not when it comes to getting local jobs. Everyone here seems to have a napoleon complex or a chip on their shoulders, and they take it out on grads by claiming "we are risky" or "not committed" to the market. It's funny that we are considered flight risks when they plan to fire most of us in 4-5 years anyway.


So in short WUSTL: No national reach, no home market. Getting a job comes down to hustling, hard work, and a little bit of luck.


Last year bryan cave hired more people from SLU than WUSTL now granted that might be that top people at wustl are looking towards bigger markets, but I think it still shows a problem. I think the biggest problem is that they would rather hire someone at slu top 15% vs wustl top 1/3. WUSTL gets the worst of both worlds. However on the flip side we lose out also. They would rather hire someone from the bottom half at a t14 over someone in the top 25% at wustl. Top v100 firms don't really hire us and also local regional firms dont hire us....

Il be honest, the only thing wustl has for itself is a high usnews rankings...... TTT city in a TTT part of the us with no sports teams or loyal alumni base.

I honestly don't think there isa big difference between being top 20% at wustl vs top 20% at upitt.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby quadsixm » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:13 pm

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby quadsixm » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:23 pm

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby KamaalTheAbstract » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:27 pm

quadsixm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I honestly don't think there isa big difference between being top 20% at wustl vs top 20% at upitt.


I'm a WUSTLer and I understand the WUSTL hate due to the disparity between WUSTL's rank and biglaw placement. But you anons are just going over the top at this point.

NLJ 250 Placement:
23) ND 23.84%
25) WUSTL 18.96%
26) UIUC 17.95%
36) Wisconsin 12.30%
37) Iowa 12.18%
39) Minnesota 11.97%
Pitt: Not ranked

So there's the facts. WUSTL beats out all of its midwestern peers except for ND, and probably gives a bigger scholly to boot. To claim that top 20% at pitt = top 20% at WUSTL is just plain stupid. The difference is a shot at biglaw vs. no shot at biglaw. That's a pretty significant difference.

I never realized how bad these schools actually placed. ND is decent considering the economic climate but other than that, it looks pretty abysmal. Going to a top 25 or top30 school really doesn't count for much anymore.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Notor » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:28 pm

quadsixm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I honestly don't think there isa big difference between being top 20% at wustl vs top 20% at upitt.


I'm a WUSTLer and I understand the WUSTL hate due to the disparity between WUSTL's rank and biglaw placement. But you anons are just going over the top at this point.

NLJ 250 Placement:
23) ND 23.84%
25) WUSTL 18.96%
26) UIUC 17.95%
36) Wisconsin 12.30%
37) Iowa 12.18%
39) Minnesota 11.97%
Pitt: Not ranked

So there's the facts. WUSTL beats out all of its midwestern peers except for ND, and probably gives a bigger scholly to boot. To claim that top 20% at pitt = top 20% at WUSTL is just plain stupid. The difference is a shot at biglaw vs. no shot at biglaw. That's a pretty significant difference.

True, but the midwest is also home to a lot of 30-50 lawyer, non-NALP NLJ250 firms that pay close to market, where close ties are paramount to getting a job. I don't think you should look just to NLJ250 stats to determine which school is better, especially when the percentages are in the single digits

In addition, if you are an in-state student at Illinois, Iowa, Ohio, Wisconsin, what incentive do you have to go to WUSTL and go tens of thousands of dollars in additional debt when the payoff is a 6% increase in chances at a NLJ250 firm? No one should play those odds. Not trying to beat up on WUSTL, but when you have schools like Iowa, Wisconsin, Illinois, Ohio State, and Minnesota which cost far less than WUSTL and have much stronger ties to their markets, it doesn't really make sense to go to WUSTL. (especially since if you have the stats to go to WUSTL, you will be getting a substantial scholarship at those schools)

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby kaiser » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:29 pm

KamaalTheAbstract wrote:
quadsixm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I honestly don't think there isa big difference between being top 20% at wustl vs top 20% at upitt.


I'm a WUSTLer and I understand the WUSTL hate due to the disparity between WUSTL's rank and biglaw placement. But you anons are just going over the top at this point.

NLJ 250 Placement:
23) ND 23.84%
25) WUSTL 18.96%
26) UIUC 17.95%
36) Wisconsin 12.30%
37) Iowa 12.18%
39) Minnesota 11.97%
Pitt: Not ranked

So there's the facts. WUSTL beats out all of its midwestern peers except for ND, and probably gives a bigger scholly to boot. To claim that top 20% at pitt = top 20% at WUSTL is just plain stupid. The difference is a shot at biglaw vs. no shot at biglaw. That's a pretty significant difference.

I never realized how bad these schools actually placed. ND is decent considering the economic climate but other than that, it looks pretty abysmal. Going to a top 25 or top30 school really doesn't count for much anymore.


You mean "going to a MIDWEST top 25 or top 30 school really doesn't court for much anymore"

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Helmholtz » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:34 pm

quadsixm wrote:Also, this is uncalled for. Stop trolling by posting anonymously as a WUSTLer; it's pretty obvious that you're not. If you're going to hate on the midwest, maybe you should GTFO of the "Midwest T25s" thread.


I can't really speak to whether that poster is in fact a WUSTL law student, but the majority of his posts have been from a WUSTL IP. (Not something we usually share unless there is some doubt about an anon lying about who he is or where he's from). Again, doesn't mean he goes to WUSTL Law, but gives some evidence that he is from WUSTL.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:39 pm

quadsixm wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:They would rather hire someone from the bottom half at a t14 over someone in the top 25% at wustl. Top v100 firms don't really hire us and also local regional firms dont hire us....

False. See above, people are getting hired. I know a handful of people in our class headed to V100 firms, and a good number headed to biglaw. If your personality IRL is as positive and optimistic as you are in this thread, you must be a real joy to interview. No wonder you're bitter with your results.

Anonymous User wrote:Il be honest, the only thing wustl has for itself is a high usnews rankings...... TTT city in a TTT part of the us with no sports teams or loyal alumni base.


Also, this is uncalled for. Stop trolling by posting anonymously as a WUSTLer; it's pretty obvious that you're not. If you're going to hate on the midwest, maybe you should GTFO of the "Midwest T25s" thread.


I'm not any of the anon's above, but imagine being one of those people. You quoted the stats yourself, 19%. Take out URM's, IP, Daddy's connections and what do you think the percentage is? 10-12% if that. Thus, you're left with people in the top 15-25% who busted their ass in school, probably messed up on one test, hustled their asses off for a job and are left empty handed. We all know that only 30% graduated employed, so it's nothing but an uphill battle again, to be one of the 10 percent of kids to get a job from November (probably still offers going out in October) until we graduate. Sure, I know a handful of kids with V100's, but I also know a bag-full of kids with good grades who are still on the hunt. I don't know if you have a job or not, but these anon's pessimism probably stems from the fact that they had significantly better grades than people with jobs, and just didn't have the same amount of luck.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:41 pm

Notor wrote:True, but the midwest is also home to a lot of 30-50 lawyer, non-NALP NLJ250 firms that pay close to market


Please show me where I can find this information

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby romothesavior » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:42 pm

Not really gonna chime in too much here, other than to say 1) the truth is somewhere in the middle of quad and the anons (and I know who at least one of the anons is and he is about as big of a downer as anyone on TLS), and 2) using raw numbers to compare a school like WUSTL to SLU is silly. Huge logic fail there. I don't care if SLU has 5 students at Bryan Cave and WUSTL has 2. I'd still rather be at WUSTL, because top 20% can get you a job at a firm like this. You really think top 20% at SLU has a snowball's chance in hell at getting a biglaw job in STL or otherwise?

Anyways, WUSTL sucks at biglaw placement, yeah we know. I'm pretty adamant about people not coming here for Chicago, and there are usually lots of better options for the average applicant than WUSTL. But come on people, let's try not to untether ourselves from reality for the sake of making a point.
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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby romothesavior » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:We all know that only 30% graduated employed, so it's nothing but an uphill battle again, to be one of the 10 percent of kids to get a job from November (probably still offers going out in October) until we graduate.

This is just plain wrong.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:43 pm

Romo, you're wrong on which post was mine. Also, I should have started Detroit's defense.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:46 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:We all know that only 30% graduated employed, so it's nothing but an uphill battle again, to be one of the 10 percent of kids to get a job from November (probably still offers going out in October) until we graduate.

This is just plain wrong.


Please elaborate, as I was using factual statistics of this past year's graduating class (30%) compared to the NLJ 250 18.9%.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 2:49 pm

romothesavior wrote:Not really gonna chime in too much here, other than to say 1) the truth is somewhere in the middle of quad and the anons (and I know who at least one of the anons is and he is about as big of a downer as anyone on TLS), and 2) using raw numbers to compare a school like WUSTL to SLU is silly. Huge logic fail there. I don't care if SLU has 5 students at Bryan Cave and WUSTL has 2. I'd still rather be at WUSTL, because top 20% can get you a job at a firm like this. You really think top 20% at SLU has a snowball's chance in hell at getting a biglaw job in STL or otherwise?

Anyways, WUSTL sucks at biglaw placement, yeah we know. I'm pretty adamant about people not coming here for Chicago, and there are usually lots of better options for the average applicant than WUSTL. But come on people, let's try not to untether ourselves from reality for the sake of making a point.


A poster above. ok il appologize... I went a little overboard claiming WUSTL is a TTT. I just get really pissed off when people don't know where my school is. I just went on a CB in the upper midwest and one of the interviewers asked my school acting like he thought my school was some local TTT. This isn't the first time that it has happened to me.

I will try to refrain myself a little more when I get frustrated... It is really hard to put on an act of being happy during interviews and have no where to vent your frustration.
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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby romothesavior » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:We all know that only 30% graduated employed, so it's nothing but an uphill battle again, to be one of the 10 percent of kids to get a job from November (probably still offers going out in October) until we graduate.

This is just plain wrong.


Please elaborate, as I was using factual statistics of this past year's graduating class (30%) compared to the NLJ 250 18.9%.

I'm not arguing with you that things are rough and it is a huuuuge uphill battle once 2L fall recruiting is over, I'm just disputing the use of this 30% employed at graduation number. How is that measured? What's the pool for that data? If it is a "factual statistic," then where is that coming from?

(Note: "I heard it through the rumor mill" is not evidence. I'm tired of this 30% number being thrown around with impunity. Someone please point me to where you're getting this number and I will gladly concede on the issue.)

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:We all know that only 30% graduated employed, so it's nothing but an uphill battle again, to be one of the 10 percent of kids to get a job from November (probably still offers going out in October) until we graduate.

This is just plain wrong.


Please elaborate, as I was using factual statistics of this past year's graduating class (30%) compared to the NLJ 250 18.9%.



I haven't heard this 30% stat anywhere (likely due to not paying attention), but if it's true, wondering how this actually compares to other schools in the 15-T30 range that also give out this number... ?

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby minnbills » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:06 pm

Keep in mind that in most cities, NLJ firms aren't the only ones paying market, too.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Illinois - Anyone hear from Berger Schatz or Hodges, Loizzi?


@WUSTL - canceled the recent screening interview for Hodges Loizzi (they came last week here) b/c accepted an offer to work elsewhere. Hopefully that improves your chances a bit? I really would have wanted to work there - so, seriously, best of luck.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Oct 03, 2011 3:21 pm

romothesavior wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
romothesavior wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:We all know that only 30% graduated employed, so it's nothing but an uphill battle again, to be one of the 10 percent of kids to get a job from November (probably still offers going out in October) until we graduate.

This is just plain wrong.


Please elaborate, as I was using factual statistics of this past year's graduating class (30%) compared to the NLJ 250 18.9%.

I'm not arguing with you that things are rough and it is a huuuuge uphill battle once 2L fall recruiting is over, I'm just disputing the use of this 30% employed at graduation number. How is that measured? What's the pool for that data? If it is a "factual statistic," then where is that coming from?

(Note: "I heard it through the rumor mill" is not evidence. I'm tired of this 30% number being thrown around with impunity. Someone please point me to where you're getting this number and I will gladly concede on the issue.)


The CSO held a meeting with 3L's in mid-April and this is the figure that they gave out. Granted, it could have gone up a bit in a month, and that was the class that interviewed when the market was horrendous, but it's around there.




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