Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results Forum

[Anonymous User]

Since there seems to be several people on here who did CBs with Hall Render, did they give any of you a real timeline of hearing back?

I was told mid October and they don't do rolling offers.

[YourCaptain]

What's the general morale like around the school at WUSTL/UIUC/ND? I imagine that a lot of people went in with dreams of Chicago/NYC biglaw and are being shot down left and right. Is the atmosphere at the schools as funeralesque as I'm imagining them being? Or is it just one of those things where everybody knew the odds were stacked tremendously against them, so OCI-striking-out is no big deal?

Pm me if you want some distributions.

[deebs]

What's the general morale like around the school at WUSTL/UIUC/ND? I imagine that a lot of people went in with dreams of Chicago/NYC biglaw and are being shot down left and right. Is the atmosphere at the schools as funeralesque as I'm imagining them being? Or is it just one of those things where everybody knew the odds were stacked tremendously against them, so OCI-striking-out is no big deal?

There's a good chunk of people who got jobs they wanted in cities they wanted, a few that have jobs but never thought they would live there. On the other hand, there's people who have nothing and praying for anything. Then there's people (about half) who appear to still be oblivious about the process and not realizing how backed up they are in terms of finding a job.

[minnbills]

There's a good chunk of people who got jobs they wanted in cities they wanted, a few that have jobs but never thought they would live there. On the other hand, there's people who have nothing and praying for anything. Then there's people (about half) who appear to still be oblivious about the process and not realizing how backed up they are in terms of finding a job.

There are people who are doing nothing at all?

[jennjd]

For the posters asking about Polsinelli and Shook..... have dings from both. Received in snail mail about 1 week after CB. They must have really hated me

[romothesavior]

+1, hopin you all get some good news soon

This. At least the USS Worried has a ton of good news as well as bad. Here it's almost all bad.

I think there is some significant under-reporting. People are a heck of a lot more likely to say "Ding at _____" than say "Offer at ____" because they are easily outable when they do so. And obviously, just about everyone will get more dings than offers. So yeah, things are bad, I just don't think this thread serves as an accurate metric. Most of the people I know with offers haven't said a word in this thread about it.

[romothesavior]

What's the general morale like around the school at WUSTL/UIUC/ND? I imagine that a lot of people went in with dreams of Chicago/NYC biglaw and are being shot down left and right. Is the atmosphere at the schools as funeralesque as I'm imagining them being? Or is it just one of those things where everybody knew the odds were stacked tremendously against them, so OCI-striking-out is no big deal?

To any 1L or incoming student reading this: If you go to a T20 (especially WUSTL), DO NOT PLAN ON GETTING TO CHICAGO. Sure, apply your ass off to Chicago if you so choose. But you need to be looking elsewhere as much as possible. I do not exaggerate when I say I know almost no one with a Chicago offer. Folks with top grades and offers at prestigious NYC/DC firms were getting dings left and right in Chicago. Folks who wound up with multiple offers in other Midwestern cities couldn't even snag a CB (sometimes not even a screener) in Chicago.

People are getting offers, probably about the same as last year or maybe even slightly more (hard to know at this point). I still expect ~25% of our class to get an SA of some sort. But only a small percentage of those folks will be going to Chicago biglaw. If you're going to come here, diversify that portfolio at OCI. And if you're dead set on Chicago, I'd say don't even bother coming here.

[quadsixm]

What's the general morale like around the school at WUSTL/UIUC/ND? I imagine that a lot of people went in with dreams of Chicago/NYC biglaw and are being shot down left and right. Is the atmosphere at the schools as funeralesque as I'm imagining them being? Or is it just one of those things where everybody knew the odds were stacked tremendously against them, so OCI-striking-out is no big deal?

To any 1L or incoming student reading this: If you go to a T20 (especially WUSTL), DO NOT PLAN ON GETTING TO CHICAGO. Sure, apply your ass off to Chicago if you so choose. But you need to be looking elsewhere as much as possible. I do not exaggerate when I say I know almost no one with a Chicago offer. Folks with top grades and offers at prestigious NYC/DC firms were getting dings left and right in Chicago. Folks who wound up with multiple offers in other Midwestern cities couldn't even snag a CB (sometimes not even a screener) in Chicago.

People are getting offers, probably about the same as last year or maybe even slightly more (hard to know at this point). I still expect ~25% of our class to get an SA of some sort. But only a small percentage of those folks will be going to Chicago biglaw. If you're going to come here, diversify that portfolio at OCI. And if you're dead set on Chicago, I'd say don't even bother coming here.

+1

[minnbills]

To any 1L or incoming student reading this: If you go to a T20 (especially WUSTL), DO NOT PLAN ON GETTING TO CHICAGO. Sure, apply your ass off to Chicago if you so choose. But you need to be looking elsewhere as much as possible. I do not exaggerate when I say I know almost no one with a Chicago offer. Folks with top grades and offers at prestigious NYC/DC firms were getting dings left and right in Chicago. Folks who wound up with multiple offers in other Midwestern cities couldn't even snag a CB (sometimes not even a screener) in Chicago.

People are getting offers, probably about the same as last year or maybe even slightly more (hard to know at this point). I still expect ~25% of our class to get an SA of some sort. But only a small percentage of those folks will be going to Chicago biglaw. If you're going to come here, diversify that portfolio at OCI. And if you're dead set on Chicago, I'd say don't even bother coming here.

What's going on in Chi that this is the case? Are firms there just taking more from the nearby T14s or is the market just lagging way behind ny?

[fl0w]

even people from chicago are having trouble landing in chicago from wustl. the CHI market is just pretty brutal. I don't think it's that they are taking from higher ranked schools as much as it is they just aren't taking people in general. chances of placing in CHI used to be much better out of wustl. the chances are just not as high (fairly low) right now mostly, i think, because of the market.

[romothesavior]

What's going on in Chi that this is the case? Are firms there just taking more from the nearby T14s or is the market just lagging way behind ny?

Certainly the latter, but also the former to some degree as well (I'm guessing). Thesealocust posted a thread showing that NYC has something like 1000-1500 more SA positions than Chicago or something ridiculous like that. There just aren't nearly as many positions. NYC has gotten a lot stronger in the last year or two, while only a few of the really big Chicago firms have bounced back at all.

[Anonymous User]

From what I can tell, most of the top (10% + LR + 1337 interview skills) of the class at UIUC is getting Chicago, so it's not just Harvard kids taking all the jobs. I know people with offers from every major Chicago office.

[Helmholtz]

To any 1L or incoming student reading this: If you go to a T20 (especially WUSTL), DO NOT PLAN ON GETTING TO CHICAGO. Sure, apply your ass off to Chicago if you so choose. But you need to be looking elsewhere as much as possible. I do not exaggerate when I say I know almost no one with a Chicago offer. Folks with top grades and offers at prestigious NYC/DC firms were getting dings left and right in Chicago. Folks who wound up with multiple offers in other Midwestern cities couldn't even snag a CB (sometimes not even a screener) in Chicago.

People are getting offers, probably about the same as last year or maybe even slightly more (hard to know at this point). I still expect ~25% of our class to get an SA of some sort. But only a small percentage of those folks will be going to Chicago biglaw. If you're going to come here, diversify that portfolio at OCI. And if you're dead set on Chicago, I'd say don't even bother coming here.

What's going on in Chi that this is the case? Are firms there just taking more from the nearby T14s or is the market just lagging way behind ny?

It's definitely a smaller market, but also, there are so many people from UChicago, Northwestern, and Michigan targeting Chicago. There is such a tremendous gap in placement between those schools and ND/UIUC/WUSTL, it's astounding. WUSTL has 18 attorneys total at Kirkland-Chi and Sidley-Chi combined. Notre Dame has 25. University of Chicago has 187, even with a smaller class size than both WUSTL and ND. Northwestern has 161. After you do the math, you realize how hilariously small the chance is that you will get a decent job in Chicago coming from ND or WUSTL. UIUC offers much better placement into Chicago, but it's still hugely lagging behind schools like UChicago and Northwestern (even though a hell of a lot of students from those two schools could get a biglaw job in Chicago, but head elsewhere out of self-selection).

Also, does UIUC provide statistics for how many of their students stay in the Midwest? Couldn't find it on their website anywhere.

[Anonymous User]

From what I can tell, most of the top (10% + LR + 1337 interview skills) of the class at UIUC is getting Chicago, so it's not just Harvard kids taking all the jobs.

I think this is also the case at WUSTL, there's just a pretty strong drop-off in Chicago opportunities outside of that range. Many of our top students who didn't transfer up successfully targeted other markets, and probably could've landed Chicago SAs. I don't think that anyone's suggesting top students who interview well can't get Chicago from WUSTL, but no one should assume they'll be one of those students.

[Anonymous User]

From what I can tell, most of the top (10% + LR + 1337 interview skills) of the class at UIUC is getting Chicago, so it's not just Harvard kids taking all the jobs.

I think this is also the case at WUSTL, there's just a pretty strong drop-off in Chicago opportunities outside of that range. Many of our top students who didn't transfer up successfully targeted other markets, and probably could've landed Chicago SAs. I don't think that anyone's suggesting top students who interview well can't get Chicago from WUSTL, but no one should assume they'll be one of those students.

Yeah, Chicago's doable with top grades but WUSTL's class is more geographically diverse so a lot of our top people are looking at other markets.

[Anonymous User]

What's the general morale like around the school at WUSTL/UIUC/ND? I imagine that a lot of people went in with dreams of Chicago/NYC biglaw and are being shot down left and right. Is the atmosphere at the schools as funeralesque as I'm imagining them being? Or is it just one of those things where everybody knew the odds were stacked tremendously against them, so OCI-striking-out is no big deal?

I'd say there are 3 or 4 distinct groups.

1. Top of the Class + LR. These people are Generally doing fine unless they are dbags/aspies
2. Bottom 60 percent of the class who didn't get interviews at OCI or got few of them. A good chunk know that they are boned, but a surprising chunk seem to be oblivious to their plight, or they just don't give a fuck. In general these kids seem ok
3. The most depressed group is the students ranked in the 15-30 percent range. These kids have good grades, but are getting shot down left and right, or being "forced" to settle with flyover firms or firms with below market pay. These kids have so much ambition and they thought they had a shot, but are struggling, they are arguable more angry/depressed than any other group, even the bottom of the class kids. These will be the "I coulda been a contenda" kids come graduation.
4. Kids w/ guaranteed jobs before law school. (Dad's firm, connections, etc) these kids have been drunk/partying/relaxed since day 1

When the chips fall, 20-25 percent of the class will land a traditional "SA" position at an NLJ/etc type firm from OCI. 30-50 percent will be employed at graduation, another chunk will get a job after passing the bar, the rest may never practice law .

[Anonymous User]

Every time I open this thread I get a bit more depressed.

[beachbum]

Every time I open this thread I get a bit more depressed.

+1. Being from St. Louis, I've pretty much grown up in awe of WUSTL. And even though there are plenty of warnings/tales of woe going around TLS, it still kinda blows my mind that such a large portion of the class from such a good school is destined for un/underemployment.

[Anonymous User]

Hey what does everyone think about this....in the event a firm doesn't work out...think there's any chance at doing something non-legal like consulting or the like?

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... legal-work

[quadsixm]

Hey what does everyone think about this....in the event a firm doesn't work out...think there's any chance at doing something non-legal like consulting or the like?

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... legal-work

Yes, there is a chance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX5jNnDMfxA

[Anonymous User]

From what I can tell, most of the top (10% + LR + 1337 interview skills) of the class at UIUC is getting Chicago, so it's not just Harvard kids taking all the jobs.

I think this is also the case at WUSTL, there's just a pretty strong drop-off in Chicago opportunities outside of that range. Many of our top students who didn't transfer up successfully targeted other markets, and probably could've landed Chicago SAs. I don't think that anyone's suggesting top students who interview well can't get Chicago from WUSTL, but no one should assume they'll be one of those students.

Yeah, Chicago's doable with top grades but WUSTL's class is more geographically diverse so a lot of our top people are looking at other markets.

+1. Definitely a pro/con for WUSTL. You'll find that WUSTL probably has alumni more spread out across the country than other schools in our peer group which does have benefits, but it is comparatively weaker in having one city where a superfluity of alumni are located. STL is of course very strong, NYC is still pretty solid, Chicago is good in boom times but lagging in the last 4 years, and DC is gradually on the way up.

[Anonymous User]

For anyone with an offer from Dinsmore, how long did it take to come after the CB?

[Anonymous User]

What's the general morale like around the school at WUSTL/UIUC/ND? I imagine that a lot of people went in with dreams of Chicago/NYC biglaw and are being shot down left and right. Is the atmosphere at the schools as funeralesque as I'm imagining them being? Or is it just one of those things where everybody knew the odds were stacked tremendously against them, so OCI-striking-out is no big deal?

I'd say there are 3 or 4 distinct groups.

1. Top of the Class + LR. These people are Generally doing fine unless they are dbags/aspies
2. Bottom 60 percent of the class who didn't get interviews at OCI or got few of them. A good chunk know that they are boned, but a surprising chunk seem to be oblivious to their plight, or they just don't give a fuck. In general these kids seem ok
3. The most depressed group is the students ranked in the 15-30 percent range. These kids have good grades, but are getting shot down left and right, or being "forced" to settle with flyover firms or firms with below market pay. These kids have so much ambition and they thought they had a shot, but are struggling, they are arguable more angry/depressed than any other group, even the bottom of the class kids. These will be the "I coulda been a contenda" kids come graduation.
4. Kids w/ guaranteed jobs before law school. (Dad's firm, connections, etc) these kids have been drunk/partying/relaxed since day 1

When the chips fall, 20-25 percent of the class will land a traditional "SA" position at an NLJ/etc type firm from OCI. 30-50 percent will be employed at graduation, another chunk will get a job after passing the bar, the rest may never practice law .

I don't know if this is where you are, but this describes ND so well.

[Anonymous User]

^ I was referring to WUSTL, but i bet it's like that at allot of midrange schools

[Anonymous User]

Illinois - Anyone hear from Berger Schatz or Hodges, Loizzi?