Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:35 pm

I'm willing to bet WUSTL's employment stats relative to other schools will be in line with previous years. None of these complaints are unique to our school. As someone mentioned, most OCI firms are NLJ 250, where we've historically placed around 20%. Griping on TLS gives the false impression that we're doing disproportionately poorly. The "don't come here unless" factors posted above, if taken seriously, apply equally to peer schools.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby MrAnon » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm willing to bet WUSTL's employment stats relative to other schools will be in line with previous years. None of these complaints are unique to our school. As someone mentioned, most OCI firms are NLJ 250, where we've historically placed around 20%. Griping on TLS gives the false impression that we're doing disproportionately poorly. The "don't come here unless" factors posted above, if taken seriously, apply equally to peer schools.


Does it really matter? A lot of WUSTL people cannot find jobs. A lot of WUSTL people are complaining here about their fortunes at OCI. The "we're just as bad as every other school" defense is silly, meaningless to those from WUSTL who cannot find work, and useless to 0Ls considering applying to the school.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 3:55 pm

The peer school argument is stupid anyway, since you select 'peer' based on geographical. In terms of numbers, our peer schools blow us away. i.e. usc/ucla/vandy/bu/bc/etc. Picking other crappy schools in the midwest is just self selection

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The peer school argument is stupid anyway, since you select 'peer' based on geographical. In terms of numbers, our peer schools blow us away. i.e. usc/ucla/vandy/bu/bc/etc. Picking other crappy schools in the midwest is just self selection


tbf, nobody really considers USC, UCLA, or Vandy a peer school of WUSTL

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby romothesavior » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:33 pm

Anonymous User wrote:tbf, nobody really considers USC, UCLA, or Vandy a peer school of WUSTL

+1. If a person has a chance to go to USC/UCLA/Vandy/etc. at a comparable price to WUSTL, they should go there unless they just have a burning desire to stay in the Midwest. I know a guy with like top 1/3 grades and a secondary journal at one of these schools and in terms of callbakids, he is blowing away our top 25% law review kids (think like 8 CBs to 1-2). Considering how these schools have similar admissions standards and people who get into WUSTL can also probably get into Texas, Cornell, Vandy, etc., going to WUSTL over any of the higher ranked non-T14s is hard to justify. I did it and it looks like it may work out for me, but I only did so because I want the Midwest and I had a scholly. I wouldn't recommend WUSTL for everyone, despite loving the school.

That said, everyone calm down a little bit. Get back on the mailing train, start hitting up mid-sized and solid smaller firms, and keep hustling. It is still early, and I am confident most of the ppl from WUSTL ITT will get a job. I know most of the TLS regulars in here personally and I really do think we can get something, and you're all great people and students. Keep Wustling. It is mid -september. If we're having this conversation a few weeks/months from now, then it'll be panic button time. But for now, keep grinding.
Last edited by romothesavior on Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 4:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The peer school argument is stupid anyway, since you select 'peer' based on geographical. In terms of numbers, our peer schools blow us away. i.e. usc/ucla/vandy/bu/bc/etc. Picking other crappy schools in the midwest is just self selection

tbf, nobody really considers USC, UCLA, or Vandy a peer school of WUSTL

I was referring to schools with similar numbers/admission standards which was clearly obvious. My point is that for any 0l's reading, is that it may cost more to go to one of those schools, but those schools will offer much better career prospects.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The peer school argument is stupid anyway, since you select 'peer' based on geographical. In terms of numbers, our peer schools blow us away. i.e. usc/ucla/vandy/bu/bc/etc. Picking other crappy schools in the midwest is just self selection

tbf, nobody really considers USC, UCLA, or Vandy a peer school of WUSTL

I was referring to schools with similar numbers/admission standards which was clearly obvious. My point is that for any 0l's reading, is that it may cost more to go to one of those schools, but those schools will offer much better career prospects.


I feel the same way about Iowa. The top students here (scholarship people) could have gone to Vandy, Texas, Cornell or something. And looking back, I would have been better off paying sticker at Vandy than going here for free. OCI is a joke, there is no home market (Iowa City had ZERO firms at OCI), and virtually every employer that recruits Iowa also recruits from at least one other school. All the MN firms recruit at Minny, Wisconsin, IL...all the Chicago firms recruit all over, even the Des Moines and Cedar Rapids firms do OCI at Drake, which is a TTT but regularly sees its students get picked over Iowa students in Des Moines.

I think schools ranked outside the top 14 (especially outside the top 20) that aren't in the biggest markets are really odd compromises for students. They don't place as well in biglaw, and the regional jobs are limited and heavily-contested by other schools, even much lower-ranked ones.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby MrAnon » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:31 pm

That WUSTL, Iowa and the like have trouble placing people is no big secret though. Nor was it last year or the year before. Its funny how students keep flocking to these schools for reasons unknown.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:39 pm

MrAnon wrote:That WUSTL, Iowa and the like have trouble placing people is no big secret though. Nor was it last year or the year before. Its funny how students keep flocking to these schools for reasons unknown.
Protip: my massive scholarship + my market offer for next year mean that I won the lottery. It's a big gamble, but if you can pull it off... I'll be debt free within 18 months of graduating. Enjoy that 210k, fellow splitters who chose instead to ED to Virginia/Gtown. Warning: results not typical :?

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
MrAnon wrote:That WUSTL, Iowa and the like have trouble placing people is no big secret though. Nor was it last year or the year before. Its funny how students keep flocking to these schools for reasons unknown.
Protip: my massive scholarship + my market offer for next year mean that I won the lottery. It's a big gamble, but if you can pull it off... I'll be debt free within 18 months of graduating. Enjoy that 210k, fellow splitters who chose instead to ED to Virginia/Gtown. Warning: results not typical :?


I'm a 173+/<3.5 splitter who went the T10 route instead of WUSTL w/scholarship $$$. Going to be at a V5 after graduation. Would I have been able to get a market-paying job out of WUSTL? Maybe, who knows. But I have almost no doubt I wouldn't be in the position I am now if I went to WUSTL. I feel like my $200k was very well spent, especially (I imagine) once I start looking at exit options.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 5:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
MrAnon wrote:That WUSTL, Iowa and the like have trouble placing people is no big secret though. Nor was it last year or the year before. Its funny how students keep flocking to these schools for reasons unknown.
Protip: my massive scholarship + my market offer for next year mean that I won the lottery. It's a big gamble, but if you can pull it off... I'll be debt free within 18 months of graduating. Enjoy that 210k, fellow splitters who chose instead to ED to Virginia/Gtown. Warning: results not typical :?


I'm a 173+/<3.5 splitter who went the T10 route instead of WUSTL w/scholarship $$$. Going to be at a V5 after graduation. Would I have been able to get a market-paying job out of WUSTL? Maybe, who knows. But I have almost no doubt I wouldn't be in the position I am now if I went to WUSTL. I feel like my $200k was very well spent, especially (I imagine) once I start looking at exit options.
Right, that's the upshot. I had every confidence I'd blow the doors off at my school, so I went for it and it paid off. Your route's definitely safer, though anyone who lands below median is in serious risk of being all kinds of fucked. *shrug* High risk, high reward.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:12 pm

MrAnon wrote:Does it really matter? A lot of WUSTL people cannot find jobs. A lot of WUSTL people are complaining here about their fortunes at OCI. The "we're just as bad as every other school" defense is silly, meaningless to those from WUSTL who cannot find work, and useless to 0Ls considering applying to the school.

It's not a defense. It's a reason to stop bitching on a message board. I'm all for increased transparency, but we came in knowing that WUSTL placed 20% in NLJ 250 firms last year, and that most OCI firms are NLJ 250. If anyone thought their chances were good despite this, OCI should've been a reality check, not a shocker.

I don't see how making sure applicants know the situation isn't unique to WUSTL is useless. They'll likely have acceptances to similarly ranked schools, and our disproportionate negativity can be deceptive if not qualified.

Regarding "peer" schools in larger markets - it's no secret they place better, and if one wants to end up in one of those markets it should definitely be considered in their matriculation decision (e.g. for California, WUSTL and USC should NOT be considered peers, obviously. Same with BU/BC and Boston, etc.). But that's the whole point of this thread targeting MIDWEST T25s - it's a different experience for students at schools outside of major markets. In perspective, WUSTL is probably placing as prevailing information would indicate. I know it's stressful and I sympathize with those who are struggling, but venting on TLS is what's really useless.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby stratocophic » Sat Sep 17, 2011 6:15 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
MrAnon wrote:Does it really matter? A lot of WUSTL people cannot find jobs. A lot of WUSTL people are complaining here about their fortunes at OCI. The "we're just as bad as every other school" defense is silly, meaningless to those from WUSTL who cannot find work, and useless to 0Ls considering applying to the school.

It's not a defense. It's a reason to stop bitching on a message board. I'm all for increased transparency, but we came in knowing that WUSTL placed 20% in NLJ 250 firms last year, and that most OCI firms are NLJ 250. If anyone thought their chances were good despite this, OCI should've been a reality check, not a shocker.

I don't see how making sure applicants know the situation isn't unique to WUSTL is useless. They'll likely have acceptances to similarly ranked schools, and our disproportionate negativity can be deceptive if not qualified.

Regarding "peer" schools in larger markets - it's no secret they place better, and if one wants to end up in one of those markets it should definitely be considered in their matriculation decision (e.g. for California, WUSTL and USC should NOT be considered peers, obviously. Same with BU/BC and Boston, etc.). But that's the whole point of this thread targeting MIDWEST T25s - it's a different experience for students at schools outside of major markets. In perspective, WUSTL is probably placing as prevailing information would indicate. I know it's stressful and I sympathize with those who are struggling, but venting on TLS is what's really useless.
TI,OC,TCR.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 7:34 pm

To summarize the last 10 posts, WUSTL kids w/o jobs complain, kids with offers defend. Now we can get back on point and hopefully all get offers.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 11:35 pm

UIUC top 10 percent

Thompson Coburn CB.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:To summarize the last 10 posts, WUSTL kids w/o jobs complain, kids with offers defend. Now we can get back on point and hopefully all get offers.


I think it s just really demoralizing when you see the "lsat + gpa" numbers to be very similar to GULC, Cornell Vandy USC UCLA, yet placement is no where near those schools. You feel like you are getting ripped off.

On top of the low placement rates, it really feels shitty when people ask you where your law school is and have no idea about a school ranked in the top 20. I've had callbacks where HR individuals in secondary midwestern cities asked me about where WUSTL is located. Most people even in the midwest know very little about the school. You can forget about NY or California. Every time i hear a question about where WUSTL is located, I wish i would have attended to ND.

To be honest, I think WUSTL actually has very poor reach in its home region. You don't see a lot of WUSTL lawyers in cinci, detroit, cleveland, columbus. The ratio of ND lawyers in those secondary cities is more than 3x higher than wustl. I think WUSTL is very limited to the Great Plains states and some Chicago.

However to be fair, everyone at WUSTL CHOSE to go to WUSTL. No one held a gun and forced you to go to WUSTL over ND or USC. Whatever happens whether I strike out or get a job, the decision was mine to attend wustl and I have to live with the consequences of that decision.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby YourCaptain » Sun Sep 18, 2011 12:45 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:To summarize the last 10 posts, WUSTL kids w/o jobs complain, kids with offers defend. Now we can get back on point and hopefully all get offers.


I think it s just really demoralizing when you see the "lsat + gpa" numbers to be very similar to GULC, Cornell Vandy USC UCLA, yet placement is no where near those schools. You feel like you are getting ripped off.

On top of the low placement rates, it really feels shitty when people ask you where your law school is and have no idea about a school ranked in the top 20. I've had callbacks where HR individuals in secondary midwestern cities asked me about where WUSTL is located. Most people even in the midwest know very little about the school. You can forget about NY or California. Every time i hear a question about where WUSTL is located, I wish i would have attended to ND.

To be honest, I think WUSTL actually has very poor reach in its home region. You don't see a lot of WUSTL lawyers in cinci, detroit, cleveland, columbus. The ratio of ND lawyers in those secondary cities is more than 3x higher than wustl. I think WUSTL is very limited to the Great Plains states and some Chicago.

However to be fair, everyone at WUSTL CHOSE to go to WUSTL. No one held a gun and forced you to go to WUSTL over ND or USC. Whatever happens whether I strike out or get a job, the decision was mine to attend wustl and I have to live with the consequences of that decision.


Did you have stats to get into Vandy, ND, USC, UCLA, GW?

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 1:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:UIUC top 10 percent

Thompson Coburn CB.


Congrats! When did they make the call?

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 10:29 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:UIUC top 10 percent

Thompson Coburn CB.


Congrats! When did they make the call?


Thanks. Saturday afternoon.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 11:10 am

When I was in New York in August, people thought I went to George Washington, When I was on the west coast, they were like "You go to Udub?" We all knew what we were getting into, a recently high ranked school in an semi obscure state/city of the flyover part of the midwest(EG not Chicago or MPLS). We knew only 2 in 10 would land biglahw. Etc

In the end, I'm sooo glad I came here, because

1) Best school I got into
2) near full tuition scholarship
3) I like law school.

Seeing how I ended up just below the median, I'm glad i am median here not at Depaul or something.

I think most of us will get jobs. Will they be 160K jobs? No, but we wont starve. IRAP + IBR + Inflation will take care of the monopoly money loans, and 10 years from now most but not all of us will be happy we came to school.

That said some of our class is absolutely fucked: Not from the midwest and want to go somewhere this school is unkown, below median/bottom of the class, paying sticker price, ugly/awkward/etc

for these people coming here was the worst decision they ever made. Some of these people are my friends.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 5:48 pm

MrAnon wrote:That WUSTL, Iowa and the like have trouble placing people is no big secret though. Nor was it last year or the year before. Its funny how students keep flocking to these schools for reasons unknown.


I was anon who posted about Iowa not placing well a few posts ago. I'm not really talking about myself. I'm on scholarship and have an offer. It's more of words of caution to anybody considering attending here. There are very few jobs available. If I had to do it over again, I would have gone to Vandy or something, because I recognize that it is mostly dumb luck that things have worked out ok for me at Iowa and would be unlikely to work out ok if I had to do it again.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
MrAnon wrote:That WUSTL, Iowa and the like have trouble placing people is no big secret though. Nor was it last year or the year before. Its funny how students keep flocking to these schools for reasons unknown.


I was anon who posted about Iowa not placing well a few posts ago. I'm not really talking about myself. I'm on scholarship and have an offer. It's more of words of caution to anybody considering attending here. There are very few jobs available. If I had to do it over again, I would have gone to Vandy or something, because I recognize that it is mostly dumb luck that things have worked out ok for me at Iowa and would be unlikely to work out ok if I had to do it again.


+1. I am at Iowa, did very well and have an offer. Many of my classmates in the top 10% cannot say the same. I would not come here without a substantial scholarship.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 6:54 pm

+1 here with Minnesota also. There are people with pretty good GPA's that have gotten shut out. Too many schools, not enough biglaw jobs here, and absolutely zero name recognition outside of the state (including in Wisconsin and Chicago). I wouldn't be surprised if many from Chicago didn't know Minnesota was a state.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby lawdooder » Sun Sep 18, 2011 7:48 pm

This thread is so depressing. DIdn't you initially all know those were losing bets?

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Sep 18, 2011 8:08 pm

lawdooder wrote:This thread is so depressing. DIdn't you initially all know those were losing bets?


At this point, I wish I had taken the debt at a T14 in exchange for the full ride I received. I still have one glimmer of hope, but if not, law school and all my effort 1L year were a waste of time.




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