Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 9:07 pm

smoking a lot of weed, drink a lot of booze, then recover, work with lolcs and continue to apply for jerbs while I chill out and take unicorn law.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well, just about struck out. Dinged from all 3 of my CBs today. Just outside top 1/3, IP, minority but not URM (read: Asian), aiming for CA (I'm from there). Had 1 CB in Chi and 2 in CA (from IP fair). Waiting to hear back from 4 OCI screeners, but barring a miracle or mass-mailing coming through for me, it's over. Absolutely depressed.


School?


WUSTL

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Snail mail ding from Husch STL after screener at UIUC. top 25% Sighhh

I'm top 25% at WUSTL - curious how things are going for you? I've got nothing but dings and silence from OCI thus far


Got one callback in a Midwest secondary market (don't want to out myself), waiting to hear from that. Also had a few "callback/screeners" with smaller firms near/in Chicago that I'm waiting to hear back from. Nothing too stellar over here... Some of my top 25% classmates are doing really well though.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:59 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone received offers from any Cleveland firms?


Tread carefully in Cleveland. I've heard one of the major cleveland firms have been no offering around 1/2 their SA for the last 3 years.


Would you mind outing the firm?

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Has anyone received offers from any Cleveland firms?


Tread carefully in Cleveland. I've heard one of the major cleveland firms have been no offering around 1/2 their SA for the last 3 years.


Would you mind outing the firm?


Ive just heard from the grapevine at school. However, it should be pretty obvious who it is if you go look through nalp. Big local firm.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:30 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well, just about struck out. Dinged from all 3 of my CBs today. Just outside top 1/3, IP, minority but not URM (read: Asian), aiming for CA (I'm from there). Had 1 CB in Chi and 2 in CA (from IP fair). Waiting to hear back from 4 OCI screeners, but barring a miracle or mass-mailing coming through for me, it's over. Absolutely depressed.


School?


WUSTL


I go to Wustl. Washu's placement seems horrendous this year. I wonder if Dean Spivey and half the career center leaving is taking its toll on OCI.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby YourCaptain » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:00 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Well, just about struck out. Dinged from all 3 of my CBs today. Just outside top 1/3, IP, minority but not URM (read: Asian), aiming for CA (I'm from there). Had 1 CB in Chi and 2 in CA (from IP fair). Waiting to hear back from 4 OCI screeners, but barring a miracle or mass-mailing coming through for me, it's over. Absolutely depressed.


School?


WUSTL


I go to Wustl. Washu's placement seems horrendous this year. I wonder if Dean Spivey and half the career center leaving is taking its toll on OCI.



guestimate % employed by december?


Romo, you in here? want to share anecdotal data? :D

Figuring out GPA guidelines for UIUC, WUSTL, and ND would be helpful for further generations...

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:15 am

.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 9:15 am

I'd imagin that about 20-25 percent of the class will land a job through OCI, maybe less. It seems brutal this year, and our NLJ250 number is below 20 percent now, and since so many of the employers coming have tiny(1-4) summer class sizes and recruit from many schools, it seems not many other decent jobs are able to be landed through lolci. Some other kids have 1L shitlaw gigs they can go back to, but from talking to these kids, none of them really want to. They will have to suck it up if they want a 2L job though, most likely.

A huge chunck of the class did not work in a firm 1L summer, and these kids have no fall backs and will likely struggle and graduate unemployed. I know that seems bleak but the stats don't lie, and that was the case last year(only 30 percent with jobs in the spring). For the hustle hard crowd: Yes some people have won the lottery and landed good jobs or worked their asses off to land something, but most charming, smart, talented, etc can't find a job. The mood at the school is surreal right now. 3Ls checked out emotionally a while ago, the 2Ls all look devastated or uncertain, and the 1Ls are like "weeeeeeeee law school is the best-est. Friends 4 evar!

Bottom line, don't come here unless:

1) you get a near full ride and dont mind the gamble
2) you have some sort of connections or dont need a biglawl biggov job
3) you are rich and just feel like getting a JD

wustl is too hard to get into for the employment prospects you get, the only plus is you usually get mad scholarships to come here. I truely feel sorry for those who are paying sticker for this school.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:43 am

The problem with WUSTL is that our "numbers" are close to cornell georgetown ucla, but our placement is nowhere near those schools. You get the worst of both worlds. Competition at a level just below GULC and Cornell, but the job prospects are like a glorified Case Western.

At T14s the competition and job prospects are pretty equal. I think it s the same for T2 schools too. Low job prospects but also lower competition if you look at lsat and gpa scores.

The worst part is when you go to secondary cities in the midwest and they are confused as to your school. They act like they have never heard of your school before. WUSTL does a really shitty job placing in other midwestern cities.

ND is more midwest and WUSTL is more great plains ie Nebraska, Kansas Missouri.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby romothesavior » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:41 am

YourCaptain wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I go to Wustl. Washu's placement seems horrendous this year. I wonder if Dean Spivey and half the career center leaving is taking its toll on OCI.



guestimate % employed by december?


Romo, you in here? want to share anecdotal data? :D

Figuring out GPA guidelines for UIUC, WUSTL, and ND would be helpful for further generations...

At your service.

I know of people with offers in the 15-25% range already, and I know of people with callbacks outside the top 1/3. Things are rough, but I can't imagine they are any worse than UIUC/ND. I don't think Wash U's placement seems "horrendous" this year, and that seems like a pretty silly claim at this point given that it is mid-September. Over half of the firms who interviewed at OCI haven't even made offers, or even finished callbacks. And when did "half the CSO" office leave?

I dunno what I would estimate as "employed by December." Simply employed in any 2L legal job? Half the class, maybe a little less (total guess). Obviously nowhere near half for biglaw, but I know some folks who are interning with judges, working for small firms, and stuff like that next summer. I expect our NLJ 250 % to be in the low 20s, and probably ~25%-30% of the class will have a 2L SA at a large or mid-sized firm (not necessarily NLJ 250) this upcoming summer.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:13 pm

Anyone get a CB yet from Thompson Coburn either from UIUC or WUSTL

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:46 pm

Taft offer today.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:A huge chunck of the class did not work in a firm 1L summer, and these kids have no fall backs and will likely struggle and graduate unemployed. I know that seems bleak but the stats don't lie, and that was the case last year(only 30 percent with jobs in the spring). For the hustle hard crowd: Yes some people have won the lottery and landed good jobs or worked their asses off to land something, but most charming, smart, talented, etc can't find a job. The mood at the school is surreal right now. 3Ls checked out emotionally a while ago, the 2Ls all look devastated or uncertain, and the 1Ls are like "weeeeeeeee law school is the best-est. Friends 4 evar!


It really is surreal. I talked to the board members of my journal - very bright, capable and motivated 3Ls - and to hear them say "Don't have a job yet, but hoping to head back to my hometown after graduation and maybe find something...." is just disheartening. Yes, I came in with the expectation that WUSTL was not a biglaw powerhouse. I knew that only ~20% of our class would get biglaw. However, I did not expect everyone outside of the top 30% to be completely shit out of luck with regards to any job.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Taft offer today.


Congrats, Indy or Cincy? Also, school?

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby stratocophic » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:03 pm

romothesavior wrote:
YourCaptain wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I go to Wustl. Washu's placement seems horrendous this year. I wonder if Dean Spivey and half the career center leaving is taking its toll on OCI.



guestimate % employed by december?


Romo, you in here? want to share anecdotal data? :D

Figuring out GPA guidelines for UIUC, WUSTL, and ND would be helpful for further generations...

At your service.

I know of people with offers in the 15-25% range already, and I know of people with callbacks outside the top 1/3. Things are rough, but I can't imagine they are any worse than UIUC/ND. I don't think Wash U's placement seems "horrendous" this year, and that seems like a pretty silly claim at this point given that it is mid-September. Over half of the firms who interviewed at OCI haven't even made offers, or even finished callbacks. And when did "half the CSO" office leave?

I dunno what I would estimate as "employed by December." Simply employed in any 2L legal job? Half the class, maybe a little less (total guess). Obviously nowhere near half for biglaw, but I know some folks who are interning with judges, working for small firms, and stuff like that next summer. I expect our NLJ 250 % to be in the low 20s, and probably ~25%-30% of the class will have a 2L SA at a large or mid-sized firm (not necessarily NLJ 250) this upcoming summer.
CR. Protip to the worried - firms are super slow and cautious because they're not going to get shafted by offering too many and having all or most of them accept. I've had this confirmed to me in interviews with hiring partners. Things will clear up some over the next month. I'm not saying NY to 190, but it's entirely possible that these places with 4 person classes are making offers to people they've got no shot with... Same goes for bigger firms. If you haven't been rejected by a place, you might still be on their list and in the game.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The problem with WUSTL is that our "numbers" are close to cornell georgetown ucla, but our placement is nowhere near those schools.


This is the major gripe I have with our school. With the amount of money it has sitting in its endowment, and the fact that the law school subsidizes other graduate programs, we should covering employer's expenses to come interview.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 3:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:The problem with WUSTL is that our "numbers" are close to cornell georgetown ucla, but our placement is nowhere near those schools.


This is the major gripe I have with our school. With the amount of money it has sitting in its endowment, and the fact that the law school subsidizes other graduate programs, we should covering employer's expenses to come interview.



that makes sense. I mean realistically how much does it cost to fly someone in? 1000 including hotel for each firm?
Just accept 4-5 more transfer students and you can easily pay for the expense.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:16 pm

minnbills wrote:For those of you who strike out, what are you planning on doing?


Working over the smaller-ish firms in the secondary market to which I have ties.

I think a lot of people freak out way too early into the first semester of 2L. I suppose the BigLaw train is leaving. . . . but there are smaller firms with respectable workloads that will still be looking for clerks for a while longer.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby romothesavior » Fri Sep 16, 2011 5:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A huge chunck of the class did not work in a firm 1L summer, and these kids have no fall backs and will likely struggle and graduate unemployed. I know that seems bleak but the stats don't lie, and that was the case last year(only 30 percent with jobs in the spring). For the hustle hard crowd: Yes some people have won the lottery and landed good jobs or worked their asses off to land something, but most charming, smart, talented, etc can't find a job. The mood at the school is surreal right now. 3Ls checked out emotionally a while ago, the 2Ls all look devastated or uncertain, and the 1Ls are like "weeeeeeeee law school is the best-est. Friends 4 evar!


It really is surreal. I talked to the board members of my journal - very bright, capable and motivated 3Ls - and to hear them say "Don't have a job yet, but hoping to head back to my hometown after graduation and maybe find something...." is just disheartening. Yes, I came in with the expectation that WUSTL was not a biglaw powerhouse. I knew that only ~20% of our class would get biglaw. However, I did not expect everyone outside of the top 30% to be completely shit out of luck with regards to any job.

Things are tough, won't argue with you there.

But your last sentence is waaaaaay over the top. You acknowledge that ~20% are getting NLJ biglaw, but you think people outside the top 30% won't get any job? So you're saying the vast majority of people who wind up employed will be at big firms? You do realize that the vast, vast majority of lawyers don't work at a big firm, correct? You also realize it is September, and less than half the firms from our OCI have even made offers? And if you understood that 20% of our class gets biglaw coming in, and you understood that most OCI jobs are big law jobs, how could you be surprised that people are struggling to get a job out of OCI?

Things suck. People should be worried. But it is way too early to throw in the towel, and I think you've painted a picture of the current situation that is way over the top.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 6:12 pm

I think the above poster was referring to the fact that only ~30% graduated this past year with a job. I understand that small firms usually offer after the bar has been passed, but even still, that leaves like 50%? without jobs. It's bleak, it's awful and consider yourself extremely lucky if you're outside of the top 15% and have a job offer from wustl.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 10:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think the above poster was referring to the fact that only ~30% graduated this past year with a job. I understand that small firms usually offer after the bar has been passed, but even still, that leaves like 50%? without jobs. It's bleak, it's awful and consider yourself extremely lucky if you're outside of the top 15% and have a job offer from wustl.


Yeah, that's what I meant. The 20% in biglaw will have their jobs at graduation, so only about 20 of the rest of us will find something else between now and then.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:08 pm

Hey this might be a dumb question....but is working for a corporation after law school out of the question if you don't make it with a firm? Or are they pretty stout on having good legal experience before hand? I know a couple of people off hand who are working for banks after law school...however they do have sort of a business background too.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby minnbills » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:13 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Hey this might be a dumb question....but is working for a corporation after law school out of the question if you don't make it with a firm? Or are they pretty stout on having good legal experience before hand? I know a couple of people off hand who are working for banks after law school...however they do have sort of a business background too.


Going in-house will be difficult without really strong grades, but compliance departments tend to hire people coming right out of school.
Last edited by minnbills on Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Midwest T25s OCI discussion/results

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Sep 17, 2011 12:07 am

romothesavior wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:A huge chunck of the class did not work in a firm 1L summer, and these kids have no fall backs and will likely struggle and graduate unemployed. I know that seems bleak but the stats don't lie, and that was the case last year(only 30 percent with jobs in the spring). For the hustle hard crowd: Yes some people have won the lottery and landed good jobs or worked their asses off to land something, but most charming, smart, talented, etc can't find a job. The mood at the school is surreal right now. 3Ls checked out emotionally a while ago, the 2Ls all look devastated or uncertain, and the 1Ls are like "weeeeeeeee law school is the best-est. Friends 4 evar!


It really is surreal. I talked to the board members of my journal - very bright, capable and motivated 3Ls - and to hear them say "Don't have a job yet, but hoping to head back to my hometown after graduation and maybe find something...." is just disheartening. Yes, I came in with the expectation that WUSTL was not a biglaw powerhouse. I knew that only ~20% of our class would get biglaw. However, I did not expect everyone outside of the top 30% to be completely shit out of luck with regards to any job.

Things are tough, won't argue with you there.

But your last sentence is waaaaaay over the top. You acknowledge that ~20% are getting NLJ biglaw, but you think people outside the top 30% won't get any job? So you're saying the vast majority of people who wind up employed will be at big firms? You do realize that the vast, vast majority of lawyers don't work at a big firm, correct? You also realize it is September, and less than half the firms from our OCI have even made offers? And if you understood that 20% of our class gets biglaw coming in, and you understood that most OCI jobs are big law jobs, how could you be surprised that people are struggling to get a job out of OCI?

Things suck. People should be worried. But it is way too early to throw in the towel, and I think you've painted a picture of the current situation that is way over the top.


What most lawyer do and what most graduates do are two different things ITE. Yes we all (should) know that the majority of jobs at OCI are biglaw or biglaw like midsized firms, and therefore a huge chunk of the class wont find a job there, however it seems a huge chunk of the class wont find ANY job by graduation. I haven't pried, but it seems that only 1 or 2 of the 3Ls/boards/execs on my journal have a guaranteed job for after graduation. Most of them don't have a clue what they are going to do.

I mean you said yourself above that you know people who will be interning w/ judges or some gov stuff next summer. That's all well and good until you realize that none of those positions(or at least 90 percent of them) will lead to permanent employment after graudation. With the current political climate in Washington seemingly in favor of dismantling the government, I imagin a lot of federal jobs will be slashed over the next few years. PDs/DAs are all but frozen in hiring right now, federal funding to states is getting slashed.

The party is over.




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