UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: I don't know any transfers who are cleaning up in the NY market.


I do.

Also Sidley hired 7 UofC summers the year before, so 8 doesn't seem like a big outlier. To get that many offers extended they probably gave AT LEAST 25 callbacks. I don't know of nearly that many so maybe the callbacks are just coming off slow.



I doubt that Sidley has a ~33% yield with U-Chicago students. Given Kirkland's reputation for being a bit of a sweatshop, Sidley's probably the most popular firm for those who want to stay in Chicago.


Yeah, but you are living in a Chicago bubble. A lot of us with good grades or softs bid Sidley because we see them as a safety in the Chicago market that will probably take us if we miss out on the elite firm in our home market because they offer so many Chicago kids and aren't a sweatshop (which Kirkland isn't either-- meritocracy =/= sweatshop.)

Anyways, I bet Sidley gets 30% of the people they give initial callbacks to.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote: I don't know any transfers who are cleaning up in the NY market.


I do.

Also Sidley hired 7 UofC summers the year before, so 8 doesn't seem like a big outlier. To get that many offers extended they probably gave AT LEAST 25 callbacks. I don't know of nearly that many so maybe the callbacks are just coming off slow.



I doubt that Sidley has a ~33% yield with U-Chicago students. Given Kirkland's reputation for being a bit of a sweatshop, Sidley's probably the most popular firm for those who want to stay in Chicago.


Yeah, but you are living in a Chicago bubble. A lot of us with good grades or softs bid Sidley because we see them as a safety in the Chicago market that will probably take us if we miss out on the elite firm in our home market because they offer so many Chicago kids and aren't a sweatshop (which Kirkland isn't either-- meritocracy =/= sweatshop.)

Anyways, I bet Sidley gets 30% of the people they give initial callbacks to.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:43 pm

Yeah, but you are living in a Chicago bubble. A lot of us with good grades or softs bid Sidley because we see them as a safety in the Chicago market that will probably take us if we miss out on the elite firm in our home market because they offer so many Chicago kids and aren't a sweatshop (which Kirkland isn't either-- meritocracy =/= sweatshop.)

Anyways, I bet Sidley gets 30% of the people they give initial callbacks to.[/quote]

Kirkland isn't a sweatshop? You guys have no idea what you are getting yourselves into

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 10:59 pm

Cadwalader snail ding.
Paul Weiss snail ding.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:04 pm

You both could be right, but I think you may be underestimating the number of students with good grades that have little or no interest in NY (especially if recent trends are any indication). Sidley's been in the game a while with U-Chicago and is probably decent at picking the midwest lifers with good grades from the crowd.

Also, how many people did they even interview? I think they had 2 days with 2 rooms interviewing, but since their screeners were 30 mins, I don't think that's as many as it sounds. I know on my day, they only saw ~30 people between the 2 rooms. 25+ callbacks from 60-65 screeners seems like quite a lot...

Re: Kirkland, call it what you want, but the billing expectations there are significantly higher there than at most comparable firms (if you want to last longer than 2-3 years, that is).

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Sep 15, 2011 11:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You both could be right, but I think you may be underestimating the number of students with good grades that have little or no interest in NY (especially if recent trends are any indication). Sidley's been in the game a while with U-Chicago and is probably decent at picking the midwest lifers with good grades from the crowd.

Also, how many people did they even interview? I think they had 2 days with 2 rooms interviewing, but since their screeners were 30 mins, I don't think that's as many as it sounds. I know on my day, they only saw ~30 people between the 2 rooms. 25+ callbacks from 60-65 screeners seems like quite a lot...

Re: Kirkland, call it what you want, but the billing expectations there are significantly higher there than at most comparable firms (if you want to last longer than 2-3 years, that is).

I am a "midwest lifer" in top quarter of class and I haven't heard from Sidley. :| :( :cry:

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:06 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:You both could be right, but I think you may be underestimating the number of students with good grades that have little or no interest in NY (especially if recent trends are any indication). Sidley's been in the game a while with U-Chicago and is probably decent at picking the midwest lifers with good grades from the crowd.

Also, how many people did they even interview? I think they had 2 days with 2 rooms interviewing, but since their screeners were 30 mins, I don't think that's as many as it sounds. I know on my day, they only saw ~30 people between the 2 rooms. 25+ callbacks from 60-65 screeners seems like quite a lot...

Re: Kirkland, call it what you want, but the billing expectations there are significantly higher there than at most comparable firms (if you want to last longer than 2-3 years, that is).

I am a "midwest lifer" in top quarter of class and I haven't heard from Sidley. :| :( :cry:


What is top-quarter? 178? 179?

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Nah, my OCI kind of sucked. And by that, I mean that it definitely sucked bad. Paul Weiss was pretty much my only hope at getting a firm I actually wanted.


Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Nah, my OCI kind of sucked. And by that, I mean that it definitely sucked bad. Paul Weiss was pretty much my only hope at getting a firm I actually wanted.


At least you seem to have a firm. Some of us here have absolutely nothing at this point...


Yeah, you're right. And I do feel bad for you guys. I just had high expectations for myself going in, that I probably shouldn't have had. Turns out writing onto Law Review isn't as much of a boost as you would think. Maybe it is our grading system. Maybe it's the transfers taking all the jobs. I don't know.


I feel you on both posts

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:14 am

Canceled Sidley CB today. Hope that frees up another call for a classmate.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Nah, my OCI kind of sucked. And by that, I mean that it definitely sucked bad. Paul Weiss was pretty much my only hope at getting a firm I actually wanted.


Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Nah, my OCI kind of sucked. And by that, I mean that it definitely sucked bad. Paul Weiss was pretty much my only hope at getting a firm I actually wanted.


At least you seem to have a firm. Some of us here have absolutely nothing at this point...


Yeah, you're right. And I do feel bad for you guys. I just had high expectations for myself going in, that I probably shouldn't have had. Turns out writing onto Law Review isn't as much of a boost as you would think. Maybe it is our grading system. Maybe it's the transfers taking all the jobs. I don't know.


I feel you on both posts


I wouldn't blame the transfers. Admissions did their part in taking substantially less than normal.

Blame OCS. They don't engender OCI fear well enough into students. They also didn't give the best advice to people because it would either make Chicago look bad to the bottomers, cause top students to squelch opportunities away, and incite struggles at the median.

I am a little over median (barely) and have 8 callbacks. I attribute this to my OCI fear and willingness to do whatever I had to to get callbacks. I am not hot and I am not a great interviewer-- I sometimes say weird things when I am nervous in interviews. I did have a pretty good resume, as most do at Chicago. I treated OCI like a full-time job, pushed forward with common sense.

Specifically, I ignored the OCS smoke and mirrors, which are calculated attempts to maximize the number of jobs the class yields, while sacrificing some who should get jobs (ie. non LR-grade-ons with median to high grades bidding NYC and Chicago only might not get jobs, while the very, very bottom of the class bidding into Texas or Silicon Valley with ties (two current booming areas) will absolutely get jobs.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:I am a little over median (barely) and have 8 callbacks. I attribute this to my OCI fear and willingness to do whatever I had to to get callbacks. I am not hot and I am not a great interviewer-- I sometimes say weird things when I am nervous in interviews. I did have a pretty good resume, as most do at Chicago. I treated OCI like a full-time job, pushed forward with common sense.


this is a bit glib. treat it like a full-time job? push forward with common sense? come on.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:38 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I am a little over median (barely) and have 8 callbacks. I attribute this to my OCI fear and willingness to do whatever I had to to get callbacks. I am not hot and I am not a great interviewer-- I sometimes say weird things when I am nervous in interviews. I did have a pretty good resume, as most do at Chicago. I treated OCI like a full-time job, pushed forward with common sense.


this is a bit glib. treat it like a full-time job? push forward with common sense? come on.


just be a real go-getter, man.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 8:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:I wouldn't blame the transfers. Admissions did their part in taking substantially less than normal.

Blame OCS. They don't engender OCI fear well enough into students. They also didn't give the best advice to people because it would either make Chicago look bad to the bottomers, cause top students to squelch opportunities away, and incite struggles at the median.

I am a little over median (barely) and have 8 callbacks. I attribute this to my OCI fear and willingness to do whatever I had to to get callbacks. I am not hot and I am not a great interviewer-- I sometimes say weird things when I am nervous in interviews. I did have a pretty good resume, as most do at Chicago. I treated OCI like a full-time job, pushed forward with common sense.

Specifically, I ignored the OCS smoke and mirrors, which are calculated attempts to maximize the number of jobs the class yields, while sacrificing some who should get jobs (ie. non LR-grade-ons with median to high grades bidding NYC and Chicago only might not get jobs, while the very, very bottom of the class bidding into Texas or Silicon Valley with ties (two current booming areas) will absolutely get jobs.


This doesn't make any sense to me. You think people didn't take OCS seriously enough because OCI didn't put enough "fear" into them about it? Our school is supposed to be full of some of the smartest people in the country, yet the students need OCS to explain to them that they need to try really hard to get a job to pay off their hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt? How is that even remotely the fault of people at OCS?

this is a bit glib. treat it like a full-time job? push forward with common sense? come on.


My thoughts exactly.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:03 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I wouldn't blame the transfers. Admissions did their part in taking substantially less than normal.

Blame OCS. They don't engender OCI fear well enough into students. They also didn't give the best advice to people because it would either make Chicago look bad to the bottomers, cause top students to squelch opportunities away, and incite struggles at the median.

I am a little over median (barely) and have 8 callbacks. I attribute this to my OCI fear and willingness to do whatever I had to to get callbacks. I am not hot and I am not a great interviewer-- I sometimes say weird things when I am nervous in interviews. I did have a pretty good resume, as most do at Chicago. I treated OCI like a full-time job, pushed forward with common sense.

Specifically, I ignored the OCS smoke and mirrors, which are calculated attempts to maximize the number of jobs the class yields, while sacrificing some who should get jobs (ie. non LR-grade-ons with median to high grades bidding NYC and Chicago only might not get jobs, while the very, very bottom of the class bidding into Texas or Silicon Valley with ties (two current booming areas) will absolutely get jobs.


This doesn't make any sense to me. You think people didn't take OCS seriously enough because OCI didn't put enough "fear" into them about it? Our school is supposed to be full of some of the smartest people in the country, yet the students need OCS to explain to them that they need to try really hard to get a job to pay off their hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt? How is that even remotely the fault of people at OCS?

this is a bit glib. treat it like a full-time job? push forward with common sense? come on.


My thoughts exactly.


I would say that there are a lot of people who don't understand that OCI success goes to the hustlers. It is almost necessary if you aren't a grade-on. For example, I watched as one dude asked OCS: "Why would I want to bid more firms than those I really like?" I also have a friend who ended up with 17 bids in mostly one struggling market and had no idea how the add process worked during OCI. Another guy called me a "liar" for bidding firms in an area that I had few ties to (NYC) because it would be dishonest to feign interest in an area.

I spoke with two people who cancelled their interviews to around 10 from 25 (who were around median) because "they only want to interview with the firms that they could see themselves working at."

When I said "full-time job," I mean that it is amazing how many people just kind of show up with little knowledge about a firm or interviewer and expect to do well.

By "fear" I mean that there is a substantial segment of the class that bought in to the "Chicago is a unique place and employers will want you because our class size is so small and they all want one" mentality. The process is random, and a lot of employers are just going to latch on to something on your resume and give you a callback, or may ding you because they have already met their callback quota for the day, or were tired and hungry when they interviewed with you. A lot of firms are still having money problems as well, so those that you might have been a lock at are really there for marketing reasons, and to maybe bring back two people instead of their usual 10.

I'm sure that the people posting on here without callbacks do not have the complacent mentality, and will likely end up with SA jobs by hustling if they got shut out at OCI through mass mailing, cold calling, and generally fighting for jobs-- if you look at the data from last year, it appears that around 20% of the SAers got their jobs this way. However, many still are suffering from this.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:18 am

Anonymous User wrote:I would say that there are a lot of people who don't understand that OCI success goes to the hustlers. It is almost necessary if you aren't a grade-on. For example, I watched as one dude asked OCS: "Why would I want to bid more firms than those I really like?" I also have a friend who ended up with 17 bids in mostly one struggling market and had no idea how the add process worked during OCI. Another guy called me a "liar" for bidding firms in an area that I had few ties to (NYC) because it would be dishonest to feign interest in an area.

I spoke with two people who cancelled their interviews to around 10 from 25 (who were around median) because "they only want to interview with the firms that they could see themselves working at."

When I said "full-time job," I mean that it is amazing how many people just kind of show up with little knowledge about a firm or interviewer and expect to do well.

By "fear" I mean that there is a substantial segment of the class that bought in to the "Chicago is a unique place and employers will want you because our class size is so small and they all want one" mentality. The process is random, and a lot of employers are just going to latch on to something on your resume and give you a callback, or may ding you because they have already met their callback quota for the day, or were tired and hungry when they interviewed with you. A lot of firms are still having money problems as well, so those that you might have been a lock at are really there for marketing reasons, and to maybe bring back two people instead of their usual 10.

I'm sure that the people posting on here without callbacks do not have the complacent mentality, and will likely end up with SA jobs by hustling if they got shut out at OCI through mass mailing, cold calling, and generally fighting for jobs-- if you look at the data from last year, it appears that around 20% of the SAers got their jobs this way. However, many still are suffering from this.


My point was not that people didn't take it seriously enough (I'm sure that's the case for some people). My point was that OCS didn't do anything to encourage people to not take OCI seriously. This whole "blame OCS for everything" mentality is completely absurd.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 11:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would say that there are a lot of people who don't understand that OCI success goes to the hustlers. It is almost necessary if you aren't a grade-on. For example, I watched as one dude asked OCS: "Why would I want to bid more firms than those I really like?" I also have a friend who ended up with 17 bids in mostly one struggling market and had no idea how the add process worked during OCI. Another guy called me a "liar" for bidding firms in an area that I had few ties to (NYC) because it would be dishonest to feign interest in an area.

I spoke with two people who cancelled their interviews to around 10 from 25 (who were around median) because "they only want to interview with the firms that they could see themselves working at."

When I said "full-time job," I mean that it is amazing how many people just kind of show up with little knowledge about a firm or interviewer and expect to do well.

By "fear" I mean that there is a substantial segment of the class that bought in to the "Chicago is a unique place and employers will want you because our class size is so small and they all want one" mentality. The process is random, and a lot of employers are just going to latch on to something on your resume and give you a callback, or may ding you because they have already met their callback quota for the day, or were tired and hungry when they interviewed with you. A lot of firms are still having money problems as well, so those that you might have been a lock at are really there for marketing reasons, and to maybe bring back two people instead of their usual 10.

I'm sure that the people posting on here without callbacks do not have the complacent mentality, and will likely end up with SA jobs by hustling if they got shut out at OCI through mass mailing, cold calling, and generally fighting for jobs-- if you look at the data from last year, it appears that around 20% of the SAers got their jobs this way. However, many still are suffering from this.


My point was not that people didn't take it seriously enough (I'm sure that's the case for some people). My point was that OCS didn't do anything to encourage people to not take OCI seriously. This whole "blame OCS for everything" mentality is completely absurd.


You know, you are right. I actually got really good advice from OCS. I guess it comes down to people not doing their due diligence.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:17 pm

I think it is partly OCS' fault in so far as this:

Look, OCS did push the whole "You go to Uof C, you are cool, we are in high demand" line A LOT! And this was the song I heard before and during the whole process. But aside from that, I think OCS effed-up in failing to provide us with real constructive information about the major markets--NY, CHI, LA, San Fran, SV.

The truth is each market is very very different and approaches to each should be done differently. I think rather than one over-arching OCI session, they need to break it down by the major markets.

For example, I mainly bid on LA and NY firms. Now the LA firms that came, were/are all grade heavy firms with 8-12 summer associates. I mean these firms also have people from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, UCLA, USC, and Berkely to recruit from, and to be honest they probably prefer this. Already my chances were low but I didn't realize it because I knew nothing about the OCI process nor the LA market. And to those who are like, do you homework, I don't think it's something you can learn through google, but rather through a place like OCS beating it in.

OCS did not really do a good job of fear mongering, which I think they should have done. For the future, a detailed info on the major markets and how to approach them is key. I mean we will all agreed that OCS did not do a good job during the OCI info session. I remember PW just pointing out 10firms that were grade heavy then saying, "oh you will be fine on the rest, go get em." What lies!

Luckily I was able to get a few CBs from NY firms!

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:

You know, you are right. I actually got really good advice from OCS. I guess it comes down to people not doing their due diligence.


I totally agree. Even if OCS didn't exist, there is enough information out there to figure out what you need to know and maximize the opportunities through OCI. I was dumbfounded by how ill-prepared people were or by how misguided people's strategies were.

Of those people I know who spent their time doing research and planning and had close to median or above grades and an okay personality, none are struggling. On the other side, those who I expected to do poorly after speaking with them ended up doing poorly regardless of grades (excepting maybe the LR grade-ons).

I also shared the experience of people reeling when I told them I focused on multiple markets including one without strong connections. This response really baffles me.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I think it is partly OCS' fault in so far as this:

Look, OCS did push the whole "You go to Uof C, you are cool, we are in high demand" line A LOT! And this was the song I heard before and during the whole process. But aside from that, I think OCS effed-up in failing to provide us with real constructive information about the major markets--NY, CHI, LA, San Fran, SV.

The truth is each market is very very different and approaches to each should be done differently. I think rather than one over-arching OCI session, they need to break it down by the major markets.

For example, I mainly bid on LA and NY firms. Now the LA firms that came, were/are all grade heavy firms with 8-12 summer associates. I mean these firms also have people from Harvard, Yale, Stanford, UCLA, USC, and Berkely to recruit from, and to be honest they probably prefer this. Already my chances were low but I didn't realize it because I knew nothing about the OCI process nor the LA market. And to those who are like, do you homework, I don't think it's something you can learn through google, but rather through a place like OCS beating it in.

OCS did not really do a good job of fear mongering, which I think they should have done. For the future, a detailed info on the major markets and how to approach them is key. I mean we will all agreed that OCS did not do a good job during the OCI info session. I remember PW just pointing out 10firms that were grade heavy then saying, "oh you will be fine on the rest, go get em." What lies!

Luckily I was able to get a few CBs from NY firms!


It is incredibly easy to e-mail and meet with OCS staff and ask very pointed questions like, "What do I need to know about the LA market?" I actually sought specific advice from OCS staff and got very good feedback and answers. If someone is doing this and getting bad advice from OCS (I know of a student who got terrible advice from one OCS staff-member), that's one thing. It's entirely ridiculous that a student would go into bidding completely blind, assuming that if there is anything about a market they need to know OCS would have specifically told them that.

It's unbelievable to me that a student would so passively approach this. I'm dumbfounded at the suggestion that OCS should be "fear mongering" students into approaching job interviews seriously and aggressively. Are we children?

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Are we children?


Judging from everything I've seen from 1L, yes. I am constantly amazed at the helplessness of my classmates.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Are we children?


Judging from everything I've seen from 1L, yes. I am constantly amazed at the helplessness of my classmates.


BUT IT'S NOT FAIR I HAVE TO GO TO CLASS AND CAN'T HAVE JAMBA JUICE11!!11!!!!!11

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Are we children?


Judging from everything I've seen from 1L, yes. I am constantly amazed at the helplessness of my classmates.


BUT IT'S NOT FAIR I HAVE TO GO TO CLASS AND CAN'T HAVE JAMBA JUICE11!!11!!!!!11



Hahaha. The best example, of course.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 1:43 pm

Gibson NY rejection in mail. Goddamn. Why do firms have to string this out over such a long period of time?

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Gibson NY rejection in mail. Goddamn. Why do firms have to string this out over such a long period of time?


Ditto this. Rejection #18. Only 5 more to go.

I have yet to "roll" into a callback. Some of these douchebags are just taking their sweet time to send out rejections.

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Re: UChicago 2011 OCI Discussion and Results

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Sep 16, 2011 2:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I have yet to "roll" into a callback. Some of these douchebags are just taking their sweet time to send out rejections.


+1




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