2011 Harvard EIP Thread Forum

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L here. My advice to all HLSers applying to NYC firms is to bid more aggressively than people have been writing here. If you're around median, you can definitely get V5. Apply to all of the NYC firms except maybe Wachtell. DPW, Cleary, S&C, STB, Deb. etc, have massive classes that they fill with tons of HLS students and can be less selective than you might think.

The only caveat is that it's a total crapshoot as to which firms people get offers and callbacks from. I was rejected from many of my 'safeties' and offered at many of my 'reaches'. My friends reported the same.

So be aggressive but cast a wide net. I'd say median students should interview with about 10 selective firms, 10 midmarket biglaw firms (e.g., Fried Frank, Proskauer, Willkie) and 5 less selective firms (e.g., Mintz Levin).

2010 EIP statistics show that most V5-V10 firms gave out about 50-70 offers. I assume those offers mainly went to the same people, too, so I think your advice is generally too optimistic.

this post makes me assume you are a douchebag....
I've talked to a number of the market recruiters and they all seem to be a lot more optimistic about Harvard student's chances than the people on here, especially in relation to grades. There is an overriding idea on this site that OCI (or in our case EIP) is the same as law school admissions, meaning it's all about grades. While this probably gets truer as you go lower in the school rankings, I don't think it's as true at HYS. These firms understand that there are a lot of factors beyond whether you got an H in torts that determine whether or not you could be a good lawyer. Yes, someone with 10H's will almost certainly get more and better offers than someone with straight P's, but from what I've learned outside of TLS, most law firms aren't making fine grain distinctions between someone with 6H's and someone with 3.

I know I can think of a number of examples of people with average grades who in my opinion will make better lawyers (and employees in general) than some of those who made law review. I'm pretty sure the law firms understand this as well.

[adameus]

FWIW:

-55 people accepted offers at the NYC V5.
-89 people accepted offers at the NYC V10 (30 of the 34 at V6-V10 were at STB and Cleary).
-A lot of those firms had surprisingly low offers-to-acceptances ratios (Skadden 28:5; Cravath 39:9; Weil 21:2; Kirkland 11:0; DPW 60:15. Even Wachtell's was only 7:4.)
-Cleary was the most bid-on firm in NYC, with 190. I think almost everyone who seriously bid NY bid on it, so let's guess 200-220 NYC bids in total, at most. 89 V10 jobs out of 220 people seeking NYC jobs is not bad at all.

yeah, 89 out of 220 isn't bad, but I think it's almost certainly better than that. This number doesn't account for the students who got offers at V10s but chose to go to DC or another non-NYC market. I think a lot of people are hoping to get into a non-NYC market, but end up bidding on NYC because there are a lot more jobs there.

[Anonymous User]

More stats:
-86 people accepted offers in Washington, DC (most-bid firm had 138 bids)
-64 people accepted offers from non-V10 NYC firms (most-bid firm had 172 bids; most bid-firm in NYC total had 190 bids)
-36 people accepted offers in Boston (most-bid firm had 72 bids)
-26 people accepted offers in Chicago (most-bid firm had 42 bids)
-23 people accepted offers in TX (13 Houston, 7 Austin, 3 Dallas)
-22 people accepted offers in LA (most-bid firm had 75 bids)
-16 people accepted offers in San Francisco (most-bid firm had 48 bids)
-5 people accepted offers in Silicon Valley (most-bid firm had 39 bids)
-5 people accepted offers in Atlanta (most-bid firm had 37 bids)

So 372 people in the "major" markets accepted offers, plus 2 dozen or less people to other places...

[adameus]

More stats:
-86 people accepted offers in Washington, DC (most-bid firm had 138 bids)
-64 people accepted offers from non-V10 NYC firms (most-bid firm had 172 bids; most bid-firm in NYC total had 190 bids)
-36 people accepted offers in Boston (most-bid firm had 72 bids)
-26 people accepted offers in Chicago (most-bid firm had 42 bids)
-23 people accepted offers in TX (13 Houston, 7 Austin, 3 Dallas)
-22 people accepted offers in LA (most-bid firm had 75 bids)
-16 people accepted offers in San Francisco (most-bid firm had 48 bids)
-5 people accepted offers in Silicon Valley (most-bid firm had 39 bids)

This makes me think the EIP stats are a bit off, or maybe it's just a reflection of people getting jobs outside of EIP, but if you look at the list linked below, it shows that 40 rising 3L's worked in Texas this summer.

REDACTED

[Anonymous User]

"owlofminerva"

Vermeulaholic

LOL

so, where does that leave us? It's a hopeless muddle...

[owlofminerva]

"owlofminerva"

Vermeulaholic

LOL

so, where does that leave us? It's a hopeless muddle...

Where does what leave us?

[Anonymous User]

you guys make me sick. offer or no offer we all have good things coming to us. chill the eff out. xoxo

[Anonymous User]

you guys make me sick. offer or no offer we all have good things coming to us. chill the eff out. xoxo

Get your optimism out of this thread. Only panicking allowed.

[Anonymous User]

"owlofminerva"

Vermeulaholic

LOL

so, where does that leave us? It's a hopeless muddle...

I too am not at ease with my surroundings.

[owlofminerva]

"owlofminerva"

Vermeulaholic

LOL

so, where does that leave us? It's a hopeless muddle...

I too am not at ease with my surroundings.

Maybe you should escape them by flying on a magic carpet.

[GeePee]

More stats:
-86 people accepted offers in Washington, DC (most-bid firm had 138 bids)
-64 people accepted offers from non-V10 NYC firms (most-bid firm had 172 bids; most bid-firm in NYC total had 190 bids)
-36 people accepted offers in Boston (most-bid firm had 72 bids)
-26 people accepted offers in Chicago (most-bid firm had 42 bids)
-23 people accepted offers in TX (13 Houston, 7 Austin, 3 Dallas)
-22 people accepted offers in LA (most-bid firm had 75 bids)
-16 people accepted offers in San Francisco (most-bid firm had 48 bids)
-5 people accepted offers in Silicon Valley (most-bid firm had 39 bids)

This makes me think the EIP stats are a bit off, or maybe it's just a reflection of people getting jobs outside of EIP, but if you look at the list linked below, it shows that 40 rising 3L's worked in Texas this summer.

REDACTED

I'm sure this was just a mistake, but this is supposed to be an internal list. Symplicity sucks and lets you remote download without logging in. Can a mod remove this?

[vanwinkle]

I'm sure this was just a mistake, but this is supposed to be an internal list. Symplicity sucks and lets you remote download without logging in. Can a mod remove this?

Done.

Can people please not provide links to things that say "Internal Use Only" and have the names of individual students in them? Thanks. Even if you can (for some bizarre reason) link to them here, you still shouldn't. Just a courtesy notice.

[adameus]

my bad. I assumed because it was on simplicity that is was locked down to harvard students only and since this is a harvard thread I thought it would be helpful....

[vanwinkle]

my bad. I assumed because it was on simplicity that is was locked down to harvard students only and since this is a harvard thread I thought it would be helpful....

It didn't even generate a login prompt. I'm kind of shocked, frankly. Not your fault it's that open.

[Anonymous User]

Don't use the Symplicity list and think it's the be all and end all. Putting your name on that list and information about your summer employer is not required and I know people who are not listed. It also doubly counts people who are splitting their summers. Just FYI for those who think that tells the entire picture of 2L employment.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L again here.

I looked at the HLS "Who's Working Where" list and found the following:

There are 15 firms in NYC I would say are the most desired among HLS students. (WLRK, CSM, S&C, Skadden, DPW, STB, Weil, BSF, QE, Deb, Cleary, Keker, Susman, PW, GDC). 115 HLS students had jobs at those firms' NY offices, and 55 had jobs at other NYC firms. (Not accounting for anyone splitting between two of those 15 firms). That's over 2/3 of HLS students working in NYC at the most selective firms! And, I'd venture to say at least half of the top of the class is working in DC, SF, or in public interest.

The point is, the best firms in NYC are attainable by most HLS students.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3L again here.

I looked at the HLS "Who's Working Where" list and found the following:

There are 15 firms in NYC I would say are the most desired among HLS students. (WLRK, CSM, S&C, Skadden, DPW, STB, Weil, BSF, QE, Deb, Cleary, Keker, Susman, PW, GDC). 115 HLS students had jobs at those firms' NY offices, and 55 had jobs at other NYC firms. (Not accounting for anyone splitting between two of those 15 firms). That's over 2/3 of HLS students working in NYC at the most selective firms! And, I'd venture to say at least half of the top of the class is working in DC, SF, or in public interest.

The point is, the best firms in NYC are attainable by most HLS students.

Curious to know which is the least grade selective of these "top 15" firms.

[Anonymous User]

I need some advice .

I have 7HS/3Ps (including 1 DS). I bid almost exclusively SF because that's where I want to practice (family, fiance, etc.) and because OCS said that someone with my grades should be fine. But now, the markets and small class sizes have me spooked. I want to pick up 3 more NYC firms during the add period. Obviously depends on availability, but which 3 should I add if I'm just interested in getting a job? And, do yall think that 3 NYC interviews is enough (in addition to the slew of SF interviews), or should I crash hospitality suites as well?

[GeePee]

I need some advice .

I have 7HS/3Ps (including 1 DS). I bid almost exclusively SF because that's where I want to practice (family, fiance, etc.) and because OCS said that someone with my grades should be fine. But now, the markets and small class sizes have me spooked. I want to pick up 3 more NYC firms during the add period. Obviously depends on availability, but which 3 should I add if I'm just interested in getting a job? And, do yall think that 3 NYC interviews is enough (in addition to the slew of SF interviews), or should I crash hospitality suites as well?

I mean, you have nothing to lose by resume dropping. Additionally, Crowell, Jones Day, and Shearman all have a couple of slots available as of now and are decent bets with your grades (Kirkland and Simpson Thacher also have slots, but they don't really meet your criteria).

How did everyone else do interview-wise? I got 28/35, bidding NY and DC. I have 10 interviews on Wednesday. Not looking forward to that.

EDIT: Also, is Cravath the only firm that does 30 minute interviews?

[Anonymous User]

24/29, but did not get an interview with a firm i really wanted that i ranked 9th (even though it had 40 slots!). is it worth trying to get an open slot with a secondary market office, or should i just try to hold out for an interview with someone from the main office that i want?

[Anonymous User]

22/25 mostly chicago, a few NY.
I wonder if I'll sign up for a few more. Why not. I like meeting people.

[Moxie]

I mean, you have nothing to lose by resume dropping. Additionally, Crowell, Jones Day, and Shearman all have a couple of slots available as of now and are decent bets with your grades (Kirkland and Simpson Thacher also have slots, but they don't really meet your criteria).

How did everyone else do interview-wise? I got 28/35, bidding NY and DC. I have 10 interviews on Wednesday. Not looking forward to that.

EDIT: Also, is Cravath the only firm that does 30 minute interviews?

10 in one day! Ouch, the most I've got in a day is seven.

And I'm pretty sure Cravath is the only one that does 30 minute interviews, at least I haven't heard otherwise.

21/26 here. I got an offer from 1L SA (NY) to come back, so I'm just bidding a select few NY firms, otherwise DC and Boston. I'm still satisfied with what I got, and I'm just looking for this process to be over.

[KLOVEIT]

I got 29 of 35 in LA and NYC but missed out on some of the big NYC firms that I put at the end which I didnt think would fill up.

Right now I have like 9 interviews on the first day but I think that is a bad idea so Im going to switch or get rid of a few. Any idea on what the average number of interviews that people take is?

[Anonymous User]

I need some advice .

I have 7HS/3Ps (including 1 DS). I bid almost exclusively SF because that's where I want to practice (family, fiance, etc.) and because OCS said that someone with my grades should be fine. But now, the markets and small class sizes have me spooked. I want to pick up 3 more NYC firms during the add period. Obviously depends on availability, but which 3 should I add if I'm just interested in getting a job? And, do yall think that 3 NYC interviews is enough (in addition to the slew of SF interviews), or should I crash hospitality suites as well?

I mean, you have nothing to lose by resume dropping. Additionally, Crowell, Jones Day, and Shearman all have a couple of slots available as of now and are decent bets with your grades (Kirkland and Simpson Thacher also have slots, but they don't really meet your criteria).

How did everyone else do interview-wise? I got 28/35, bidding NY and DC. I have 10 interviews on Wednesday. Not looking forward to that.

EDIT: Also, is Cravath the only firm that does 30 minute interviews?

Thanks. By "meet my criteria", do you mean they are out of my grade range?

[Anonymous User]

I think the poster meant that those firms arent super easy to get, not that your grades are not competitive for them.