2011 Harvard EIP Thread

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 26, 2011 11:36 pm

I'm the top 1/4 poster. It's actually 6H, so I guess it could be closer to top 30% than 25%. My reason for wanting to work in DC is that I'm interested in exploring both IP lit and appellate work, and that's pretty much the only place where firms do both really. I don't have any ties to DC otherwise.

I tried to include NY firms with large class sizes in the list to bump up the total number of SA spots on my list (hence why S&C so high up, because they're the only NY firm I noticed that both has a large class size and was heavily overbid last year), but maybe I should be adding more of those?

As for the risk of the three-market split, I am definitely unsure. But as for logistical difficulty, I did a couple of callbacks 1L and I think it will be more manageable this time around with three weeks off and no classes to schedule around.

By the way thanks to all for your comments, it's all very helpful.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:45 am

Is "I want to do appellate work" a sufficient rationale for DC if someone has good grades?

User avatar
GeePee
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:35 pm

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby GeePee » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:Is "I want to do appellate work" a sufficient rationale for DC if someone has good grades?

I think I would want to speak in more detail about the other unique qualities of a DC practice, but yes, the prominence of appellate work is certainly part of it.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:51 am

Moxie wrote:I think it's too aggressive in general, but again it's hard to tell since I don't know how competitive your bids will be in Boston and your secondary market.

I know that median can get V20 (especially some of the less competitive), but there seem to be too many reaches (1-4, 6, 12 come to mind readily), and I'd throw in some bids to the bigger classes further down the Vault rankings.


do you have some examples of bigger classes further down the rankings?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:07 am

Anonymous User wrote:10Hs /w unique corporate law-related WE during 1L and highly selective 1L summer internship.

Curious to know how difficult it will be to break into SF/LA without any real ties whatsoever and a transactional law focus. Will be bidding basically the V10 + some relative safeties in NYC. Still trying to figure out my SF/LA firm bids... any suggestions would be welcome.

Also, I've heard from a rising 3L that bidding strategy doesn't really matter because you can always request (and be granted) an interview slot with a firm. Any truth to this?



Depends on the firm. SF and LA seem to care a good bit about ties because they worry that people are just using them for a free vacation with no intention of going there. If you want to go to SF or LA, think of a good reason to be in those respective cities (whether it's a particular practice area that is prevalent there or whatever else) because otherwise firms will be skeptical.

That said, your grades are obviously very good, so SF and LA firms would love to have you. Off the top of my head, I'd suggest:

1. OMM (CC and LA)
2. Latham (SF and LA)
3. Skadden LA
4. Wilson Sonsini (Bay Area)
5. Gibson LA


I abbreviated this list because these seem to be the most stand-out firms (and also because doing corporate work on the West Coast for a NYC-based firm seems shitty).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 8:09 am

IP background + Work experience...median grades. Focus on Boston, SF and IP Law. I may throw in a couple firms from other cities that are particularly known for IP. Some firms are missing because I am interviewing with them at Loyola. Curious to see if people think I should suck it up and just bid on NYC instead of SF with median grades, or am I looking fine because of IP background/work experience.



Knobbe Martens SF
Wilson, Sonsini SF
Bingham McCutchen SF
Fish & Richardson Boston,SF
Paul, Hastings SF
Ropes & Gray Boston
Quinn Emmanuel SF
Dechert SF
Cooley SF
Pillsbury Winthrop SF
Foley Hoag Boston
WilmerHale Boston
Choate, Hall & Stewart Boston
Bingham McCutchen Boston
Fenwick & West SF
Wolf Greenfield Boston
Howard Rice SF
Sidley Austin SF
Farella Braun SF
Latham & Watkins SF
Dewey & LeBoeuf FirmWide
Orrick SF
O'Melveny SF
Mintz Levinson Boston
McDermot Will Emery Boston
Simpson Thatcher PA
Wilson Sonsini PA
Weil Gotshal SF
Goodwin Procter Boston
WilmerHale PA
Davis Polk SV
Morgan Lewis SF

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:14 pm

Any general thoughts on how an HLS transfer student should roughly equate their standing? E.g. at CLS it is estimated that transfers are loosely treated as top third. Thanks in advance for any insight.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:27 pm

Sorry, had a snarky reply here, but have now deleted it.

Presumably if you were top of your class at your old school, you will be viewed similarly at HLS with some mental adjustment for the reputation of the school.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any general thoughts on how an HLS transfer student should roughly equate their standing? E.g. at CLS it is estimated that transfers are loosely treated as top third. Thanks in advance for any insight.

I'm an HLS transfer from last year. You will be evaluated as you would be from your previous school. Therefore, this thread isn't that relevant to you. Instead, you should plan your bid list based on where people at the top of your class (I am assuming that you are at the top of your class) at your previous school ended up.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Some firms are missing because I am interviewing with them at Loyola.


Does interviewing at a patent job fair really mean that you can't interview with them at OCI?

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:41 pm

I'm not crazy about the idea of going into biglaw but as EIP approaches I'm thinking it couldn't hurt to interview. Any suggestions where I should be looking? I'm interested in litigation in dc, nyc, chicago. Longer term, would want to move to government or academia. Have LR and more DSs than Ps.

User avatar
GeePee
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:35 pm

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby GeePee » Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm not crazy about the idea of going into biglaw but as EIP approaches I'm thinking it couldn't hurt to interview. Any suggestions where I should be looking? I'm interested in litigation in dc, nyc, chicago. Longer term, would want to move to government or academia. Have LR and more DSs than Ps.

Anywhere? Just figure out what you want and make sure you present yourself well and you'll be in great shape at any firm.

User avatar
Moxie
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Moxie » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:07 pm

GeePee wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm not crazy about the idea of going into biglaw but as EIP approaches I'm thinking it couldn't hurt to interview. Any suggestions where I should be looking? I'm interested in litigation in dc, nyc, chicago. Longer term, would want to move to government or academia. Have LR and more DSs than Ps.


Anywhere? Just figure out what you want and make sure you present yourself well and you'll be in great shape at any firm.


+1 to GeePee's advice.

User avatar
Moxie
Posts: 665
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2009 3:27 pm

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Moxie » Wed Jul 27, 2011 5:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Moxie wrote:I think it's too aggressive in general, but again it's hard to tell since I don't know how competitive your bids will be in Boston and your secondary market.

I know that median can get V20 (especially some of the less competitive), but there seem to be too many reaches (1-4, 6, 12 come to mind readily), and I'd throw in some bids to the bigger classes further down the Vault rankings.


do you have some examples of bigger classes further down the rankings?


Dechert and Cahill come to mind, but do your own research through NALP. It's pretty damn easy to find out.

User avatar
GeePee
Posts: 1273
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2009 7:35 pm

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby GeePee » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:04 pm

Are all you guys and girls putting your grades on your EIP resumes? I notice none of the OCS samples have them but I feel weird not having them there for easy reference.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:17 pm

GeePee wrote:Are all you guys and girls putting your grades on your EIP resumes? I notice none of the OCS samples have them but I feel weird not having them there for easy reference.


That's what unofficial transcripts are for. Plus it seems douchey if your grades are good, and a terrible idea if your grades are bad.

smittytron3k
Posts: 197
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2009 4:32 pm

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby smittytron3k » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:19 pm

OCS says not to put them on there: "It is not necessary to include your G.P.A. on your resume unless you are applying for jobs in the fields of management consulting, business, or investment banking. Employers assume that you have strong academic credentials."

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any general thoughts on how an HLS transfer student should roughly equate their standing? E.g. at CLS it is estimated that transfers are loosely treated as top third. Thanks in advance for any insight.

I'm an HLS transfer from last year. You will be evaluated as you would be from your previous school. Therefore, this thread isn't that relevant to you. Instead, you should plan your bid list based on where people at the top of your class (I am assuming that you are at the top of your class) at your previous school ended up.

I'm an HLS transfer from last year, and I strongly disagree with the above. I outperformed everyone at my old school and I know several other transfers who did the same.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:41 pm

I like how 10% of the Harvard Law Review's 2L editorial staff is ITT.

Food for thought.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 10:56 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I like how 10% of the Harvard Law Review's 2L editorial staff is ITT.

Food for thought.


Who knew top achievers at HLS would go on a forum for top achievers at law schools generally.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any general thoughts on how an HLS transfer student should roughly equate their standing? E.g. at CLS it is estimated that transfers are loosely treated as top third. Thanks in advance for any insight.

I'm an HLS transfer from last year. You will be evaluated as you would be from your previous school. Therefore, this thread isn't that relevant to you. Instead, you should plan your bid list based on where people at the top of your class (I am assuming that you are at the top of your class) at your previous school ended up.

I'm an HLS transfer from last year, and I strongly disagree with the above. I outperformed everyone at my old school and I know several other transfers who did the same.


This means nothing; I don't even understand what you mean by "outperform." Are you saying you got a job at better firm than anyone at your old school? Probably not so. Are you saying you had more callbacks and more offers? Perhaps, but I doubt it. First, I am highly skeptical that you know you "outperformed everyone" at your old school. You have data on everyone at your old school? I think not. Second, even if you did somehow have this data, there is no way "several other transfers" also have the same data about people at their old schools.

The point is that you will be evaluated primarily on the strength of your 1L grades, which as a transfer are inevitably those from your old school. It may not be accurate to say that you will be evaluated "as you would" from your previous school, but I doubt the boost you get just because you are now at HLS is as high as you seem to think it is. I am also an HLS transfer, and the primary advantage during EIP was the fact that there are no pre-selects and firms tend to interview more HLS students than they would students at another school. There were also firms at EIP that did not interview at my old school.

Of course, if you were one of the transfers from a lower-ranked school, such as a T2, then I am more comfortable with your assertion that you "outperformed everyone" at your old school. It is still hyperbole, particularly coupled with your "several other students" comment, but I suppose this is the internet.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:43 pm

Rising 3L here. My advice to all HLSers applying to NYC firms is to bid more aggressively than people have been writing here. If you're around median, you can definitely get V5. Apply to all of the NYC firms except maybe Wachtell. DPW, Cleary, S&C, STB, Deb. etc, have massive classes that they fill with tons of HLS students and can be less selective than you might think.

The only caveat is that it's a total crapshoot as to which firms people get offers and callbacks from. I was rejected from many of my 'safeties' and offered at many of my 'reaches'. My friends reported the same.

So be aggressive but cast a wide net. I'd say median students should interview with about 10 selective firms, 10 midmarket biglaw firms (e.g., Fried Frank, Proskauer, Willkie) and 5 less selective firms (e.g., Mintz Levin).

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 27, 2011 11:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Rising 3L here. My advice to all HLSers applying to NYC firms is to bid more aggressively than people have been writing here. If you're around median, you can definitely get V5. Apply to all of the NYC firms except maybe Wachtell. DPW, Cleary, S&C, STB, Deb. etc, have massive classes that they fill with tons of HLS students and can be less selective than you might think.

The only caveat is that it's a total crapshoot as to which firms people get offers and callbacks from. I was rejected from many of my 'safeties' and offered at many of my 'reaches'. My friends reported the same.

So be aggressive but cast a wide net. I'd say median students should interview with about 10 selective firms, 10 midmarket biglaw firms (e.g., Fried Frank, Proskauer, Willkie) and 5 less selective firms (e.g., Mintz Levin).


2010 EIP statistics show that most V5-V10 firms gave out about 50-70 offers. I assume those offers mainly went to the same people, too, so I think your advice is generally too optimistic.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:I assume those offers mainly went to the same people, too, so I think your advice is generally too optimistic.


Anecdotally, I think that's incorrect. My law review friends didn't clean up with offers from all the big firms--they got a few V10 offers. A personal connection with the interviewer can go a longer way than grades.

Anonymous User
Posts: 273479
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2011 Harvard EIP Thread

Postby Anonymous User » Thu Jul 28, 2011 12:20 am

FWIW:

-55 people accepted offers at the NYC V5.
-89 people accepted offers at the NYC V10 (30 of the 34 at V6-V10 were at STB and Cleary).
-A lot of those firms had surprisingly low offers-to-acceptances ratios (Skadden 28:5; Cravath 39:9; Weil 21:2; Kirkland 11:0; DPW 60:15. Even Wachtell's was only 7:4.)
-Cleary was the most bid-on firm in NYC, with 190. I think almost everyone who seriously bid NY bid on it, so let's guess 200-220 NYC bids in total, at most. 89 V10 jobs out of 220 people seeking NYC jobs is not bad at all.




Return to “Legal Employment”

Who is online

The online users are hidden on this forum.