Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

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sundance1988
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:34 pm

Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby sundance1988 » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:07 pm

Hey all. I'm transferring to Chicago from UCLA. Have just over a 3.7 from UCLA (somewhere in the top 10% I think). I'm trying to plan out bidding strategy and would love some (much needed) advice. I have a degree in finance from a top UG and worked at a mutual fund after 1L, so I'm looking at securities (non-litigation). I have pretty strong ties to both NY and LA.

1. S&C (NY)
2. Simpson Thacher (NY)
3. Davis Polk (NY)
4. Gibson (LA)
5. Latham (LA)
6. OMM (LA)
7. Cleary (NY)
8. Skadden (NY)
9. Debevoise
10.Sidley (NY)
11. Kirkland (NY)
12. MoFo (NY)

Too aggressive? Missing anything? Need to move stuff around?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

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Helmholtz
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Helmholtz » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:20 pm

sundance1988 wrote:Hey all. I'm transferring to Chicago from UCLA. Have just over a 3.7 from UCLA (somewhere in the top 10% I think). I'm trying to plan out bidding strategy and would love some (much needed) advice. I have a degree in finance from a top UG and worked at a mutual fund after 1L, so I'm looking at securities (non-litigation). I have pretty strong ties to both NY and LA.

1. S&C (NY)
2. Simpson Thacher (NY)
3. Davis Polk (NY)
4. Gibson (LA)
5. Latham (LA)
6. OMM (LA)
7. Cleary (NY)
8. Skadden (NY)
9. Debevoise
10.Sidley (NY)
11. Kirkland (NY)
12. MoFo (NY)

Too aggressive? Missing anything? Need to move stuff around?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.


SullCrom definitely does not need to be #1. Its reputation for being highly selective and its high Vault ranking (silly, I know, but some people rely upon them as a rough metric of selectivity) should scare enough people away, and their 42 interview slots should ensure plenty of those who were not scared away have a shot.

Anonymous User
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Anonymous User » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:42 pm

sundance1988 wrote:Hey all. I'm transferring to Chicago from UCLA. Have just over a 3.7 from UCLA (somewhere in the top 10% I think). I'm trying to plan out bidding strategy and would love some (much needed) advice. I have a degree in finance from a top UG and worked at a mutual fund after 1L, so I'm looking at securities (non-litigation). I have pretty strong ties to both NY and LA.

1. S&C (NY)
2. Simpson Thacher (NY)
3. Davis Polk (NY)
4. Gibson (LA)
5. Latham (LA)
6. OMM (LA)
7. Cleary (NY)
8. Skadden (NY)
9. Debevoise
10.Sidley (NY)
11. Kirkland (NY)
12. MoFo (NY)

Too aggressive? Missing anything? Need to move stuff around?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Definitely don't need S&C, Simpson, or DPW in your top 3. They all have 42 slots and most years we only send around 40 people to New York. Also remember that these firms take very few people below median, so that means roughly half the people bidding New York have no business placing these firms in their top 20 bids, let alone their top 10. Basically, you will be safe bidding the New York V10s quite a bit lower. Exactly how low is always a guess, but bidding them in your top 10 is not necessary.

You obviously have a lot more bids to use and will want to use some of those on V50 firms in New York. Bid some of the V50 firms that only have 21 slots in your top 10 to ensure that you get some interviews in New York at less selective places. I don't know a lot about how well transfers do at OCI, but I think it would be a mistake to not secure interviews with some of the New York firms with 21 slots.

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thesealocust
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby thesealocust » Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:45 pm

WAY too aggressive. Top 10% at UCLA -> Chicago is in good shape, and you've got a good chance at winding up at a top firm - but between the shaky market and firms having varied views of transfers you can't pick the top / most selective firms in NYC, bid them, and call it a day. You should try to get interviews everywhere you listed, but you should really be looking into a dozen++ firms that are less selective.

Cover your bases.

dobby
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby dobby » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:42 am

I agree with the general sentiment that this is too aggressive. I think a top 10% at UCLA can afford to be somewhat aggressive, but I think it'd be smart to cover your bases a little more and not just name the top NYC firms. In my opinion you are likely to get a great firm for next summer in NYC. You should know that transferring to UChicago from UCLA will hurt you with the LA firms. They WILL ask why you went to UChicago when you could've interviewed with all the same LA firms at UCLA, and obviously "because I wanted to interview with all these great NYC firms" is not a good answer. I don't know your personal reasons for transferring, but LA firms will be VERY skeptical about you wanting to come back (and at the very least, unless you have some really good personal reason for going to Chicago, they will know you're targeting other markets, so your "I have ties to LA and want to work there after graduation" pitch will inherently be less effective). Best of luck to you.

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Emma.
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:Definitely don't need S&C, Simpson, or DPW in your top 3. They all have 42 slots and most years we only send around 40 people to New York. Also remember that these firms take very few people below median, so that means roughly half the people bidding New York have no business placing these firms in their top 20 bids, let alone their top 10. Basically, you will be safe bidding the New York V10s quite a bit lower. Exactly how low is always a guess, but bidding them in your top 10 is not necessary.

You obviously have a lot more bids to use and will want to use some of those on V50 firms in New York. Bid some of the V50 firms that only have 21 slots in your top 10 to ensure that you get some interviews in New York at less selective places. I don't know a lot about how well transfers do at OCI, but I think it would be a mistake to not secure interviews with some of the New York firms with 21 slots.


You clearly know a lot about UChi bidding strategy. I'd really appreciate some advice if you have a chance. I'm not looking for NY though.

Transferthrowaway
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Transferthrowaway » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:21 am

Not to hijack OPs thread, but I am also a UChi transfer with bidding strategy questions. Top 1% at a T-35, accounting undergrad, no prior WE except for a 1L SA in a secondary market.

I want to stay in Chicago if possible. Leaning towards litigation, but not sold on it yet. Also have an interest in BK because it seems to have both transactional and litigation aspects. I am only starting to get together my list, but here is the top of it so far...

1. Kirkland & Ellis (Chi)
2. Sidley Austin (Chi)
3. Jenner & Block (Chi)
4. Skadden (Chi)
5. Mayer Brown (Chi)

Who else should I add? At what point should I start throwing in some NYC firms to help the odds I will be employed next summer?

Anonymous User
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 23, 2011 11:44 am

You don't need to put Kirkland and Sidley that high. They have 84 slots each.

Transferthrowaway
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Transferthrowaway » Sat Jul 23, 2011 12:42 pm

Anonymous User wrote:You don't need to put Kirkland and Sidley that high. They have 84 slots each.


Any idea who I should be putting in the top spots? I really am clueless when it comes to making this bid list.

Anonymous User
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:42 pm

Emma. wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Definitely don't need S&C, Simpson, or DPW in your top 3. They all have 42 slots and most years we only send around 40 people to New York. Also remember that these firms take very few people below median, so that means roughly half the people bidding New York have no business placing these firms in their top 20 bids, let alone their top 10. Basically, you will be safe bidding the New York V10s quite a bit lower. Exactly how low is always a guess, but bidding them in your top 10 is not necessary.

You obviously have a lot more bids to use and will want to use some of those on V50 firms in New York. Bid some of the V50 firms that only have 21 slots in your top 10 to ensure that you get some interviews in New York at less selective places. I don't know a lot about how well transfers do at OCI, but I think it would be a mistake to not secure interviews with some of the New York firms with 21 slots.


You clearly know a lot about UChi bidding strategy. I'd really appreciate some advice if you have a chance. I'm not looking for NY though.

Unfortunately the only other market I can give any remotely credible advice on is Chicago. If you are interested in Chicago, keep in mind that it is way different than New York in terms of strategy. Kirkland and Sidley will go quickly because unlike New York, there are very few firms in Chicago that are not selective and that also have large summer classes. I think it's a lot more difficult to predict the best strategy for Chicago, but my best advice is that people who are competitive for Kirkland and Sidley should have those firms in their top 5. I believe that Sidley Chicago was gone by bid #6 last year.

Transferthrowaway
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Transferthrowaway » Sat Jul 23, 2011 1:45 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Unfortunately the only other market I can give any remotely credible advice on is Chicago. If you are interested in Chicago, keep in mind that it is way different than New York in terms of strategy. Kirkland and Sidley will go quickly because unlike New York, there are very few firms in Chicago that are not selective and that also have large summer classes. I think it's a lot more difficult to predict the best strategy for Chicago, but my best advice is that people who are competitive for Kirkland and Sidley should have those firms in their top 5. I believe that Sidley Chicago was gone by bid #6 last year.


Does that mean my Top 5 is actually credited?

1. K&E
2. Sidley
3. Jenner
4. Skadden
5. Mayer

Anonymous User
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:29 pm

Transferthrowaway wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Unfortunately the only other market I can give any remotely credible advice on is Chicago. If you are interested in Chicago, keep in mind that it is way different than New York in terms of strategy. Kirkland and Sidley will go quickly because unlike New York, there are very few firms in Chicago that are not selective and that also have large summer classes. I think it's a lot more difficult to predict the best strategy for Chicago, but my best advice is that people who are competitive for Kirkland and Sidley should have those firms in their top 5. I believe that Sidley Chicago was gone by bid #6 last year.


Does that mean my Top 5 is actually credited?

1. K&E
2. Sidley
3. Jenner
4. Skadden
5. Mayer

Skadden doesn't need to be in the top 5. Same probably goes for Jenner and Mayer, but I'm not an authoritative source on that.

You need to do more research and get a list of 20-25 firms that you are legitimately interested in getting interviews with, add another market if needed. Then you can start focusing on how to use your bids.

Anonymous User
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:49 pm

Any more NYC V20 advice? Which firms do I not need to bid high, and which do I need to bid high?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 23, 2011 2:56 pm

I'm going to get in on this as well. Transferring to Chicago, top 9% at T-35, had a career before law school, went to a top undergrad. Bidding all in NYC, looking at litigation. I was planning on just bidding in order of preference, here's my top 25:

1. Debevoise
2. Paul Weiss
3. Weil Gotshal
4. Quinn Emanuel
5. Hughes Hubbard
6. Orrick Herrington
7. Kramer Levin
8. Gibson Dunn
9. Sheppard Mullin
10. Simpson Thacher
11. Kirkland Ellis
12. Hogan Lovells
13. Skadden
14. Paul Hastings
15. Boies Schiller
16. Latham Watkins
17. Davis Polk
18. Fried Frank
19. Morrison Foerster
20. WilmerHale
21. Sidley Austin
22. Mayer Brown
23. Proskauer Rose
24. Bryan Cave
25. Dewey LeBoeuf

Anonymous User
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 23, 2011 3:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Any more NYC V20 advice? Which firms do I not need to bid high, and which do I need to bid high?

All of the advice below is for the New York market. I attempt to your question, but I also am trying to provide advice for anyone targeting NYC.

General NYC advice is that firms with the least slots, lowest standards, largest summer classes, and best reputations/ranking need to go highest. Any NYC firm with 21 slots, a decent reputation, and a low minimum GPA (from the OCS document) should be high on your list if you want a good chance of getting an interview. People at the very top of the class may be able to ignore a lot of the 21 slot firms, but everyone else needs to make sure that they get plenty of interviews with these firms. So the average student should probably be using at least their top 10 bids only on firms with 21 or less slots.

Most of the NYC V20 firms have 42 slots and are more selective, thus they don't need to be at the very top of your list. In deciding how to order the V20s with more than 21 slots, I would use preference as the main factor, with exceptions for Wachtell, Cravath, and possibly S&C, as people tend to recognize that these firms are unusually selective, even within the V20.

Any bid list created following the general themes discussed in this thread is unlikely to suck, and that's all you can really hope for. Nobody can say for sure where you need to bid firm X in order to get an interview.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 23, 2011 4:59 pm

um, have other transfers received this OCS document with minimum GPAs? i haven't... is it on a website somewhere?

Transferthrowaway
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Transferthrowaway » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:um, have other transfers received this OCS document with lowest minimum GPAs? i haven't... is it on a website somewhere?


I haven't. I received a slew of e-mails from them yesterday at my uchicago address that I am reading over now.

Anonymous User
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Anonymous User » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:09 pm

nevermind, found it on OCS's Chalk page, called 2011 Fall OCI Callback Report

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Emma.
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:16 pm

Forgot to say: welcome, you guys that're transferring in.

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California Babe
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby California Babe » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:28 pm

Emma. wrote:Forgot to say: welcome, you guys that're transferring in.


+1

Wonder how many we'll have this year? Imagine it is a smaller number since our class was over-enrolled.

Transferthrowaway
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Transferthrowaway » Sat Jul 23, 2011 5:31 pm

California Babe wrote:
Emma. wrote:Forgot to say: welcome, you guys that're transferring in.


+1

Wonder how many we'll have this year? Imagine it is a smaller number since our class was over-enrolled.


15-18 is what Dean Perry told me.

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Emma.
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby Emma. » Sat Jul 23, 2011 10:36 pm

Transferthrowaway wrote:
California Babe wrote:
Emma. wrote:Forgot to say: welcome, you guys that're transferring in.


+1

Wonder how many we'll have this year? Imagine it is a smaller number since our class was over-enrolled.


15-18 is what Dean Perry told me.


Whoa, that's a lot. I thought we normally take around 20, and this year it was going to be 10-12,

jitsrenzo
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Re: Transfer to Chicago, bidding questions

Postby jitsrenzo » Sun Jul 24, 2011 2:23 am

Thanks so much!

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Any more NYC V20 advice? Which firms do I not need to bid high, and which do I need to bid high?

All of the advice below is for the New York market. I attempt to your question, but I also am trying to provide advice for anyone targeting NYC.

General NYC advice is that firms with the least slots, lowest standards, largest summer classes, and best reputations/ranking need to go highest. Any NYC firm with 21 slots, a decent reputation, and a low minimum GPA (from the OCS document) should be high on your list if you want a good chance of getting an interview. People at the very top of the class may be able to ignore a lot of the 21 slot firms, but everyone else needs to make sure that they get plenty of interviews with these firms. So the average student should probably be using at least their top 10 bids only on firms with 21 or less slots.

Most of the NYC V20 firms have 42 slots and are more selective, thus they don't need to be at the very top of your list. In deciding how to order the V20s with more than 21 slots, I would use preference as the main factor, with exceptions for Wachtell, Cravath, and possibly S&C, as people tend to recognize that these firms are unusually selective, even within the V20.

Any bid list created following the general themes discussed in this thread is unlikely to suck, and that's all you can really hope for. Nobody can say for sure where you need to bid firm X in order to get an interview.




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