Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

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quakeroats
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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby quakeroats » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:48 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:That is a crazy amount of 1Ls, I had heard Birmingham hired a lot but didn't know this many.


What's the catch? They seem to be hiring more SAs than a small Southern market should be able to bear. Can anyone shed some light on the dynamics of Birmingham biglaw?

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Grizz
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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Grizz » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:52 pm

quakeroats wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:That is a crazy amount of 1Ls, I had heard Birmingham hired a lot but didn't know this many.


What's the catch? They seem to be hiring more SAs than a small Southern market should be able to bear. Can anyone shed some light on the dynamics of Birmingham biglaw?

Common for people to have 2 firms, because programs are six weeks usually. Also, anecdotally, no-offers are more common.

Edited for repetition
Last edited by Grizz on Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:56 pm

LOl is the Birmingham salary scale classified or something?

Aqualibrium
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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:07 pm

No one really has an explanation for why there are so many 1L positions in Birmingham and the state of Alabama as a whole. The statement about no offers is correct, though. It's not uncommon for a firm with a class of 5 to only extend an offer to 1 person. I've personally seen places with as many as 10 1L and 2L clerks total only offer 2 total. I also know folks who clerked at a place for two straight summers with no permanent offer in the end. That said, they do expect you to have something else; every firm I can think of has only a 6 week program, and most people end up clerking at two firms during the summer.

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Aberzombie1892 » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:20 pm

The low offer rates of southern firms is the norm. While the large Atlanta firms generally do a better job, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc. firms seem to frequently have offer rates of about 1/2 (half of the summer associates receive offers) or sometimes less. However, they all allow people to split their summers.

Side note 1 - the Birmingham Metro has about 1,150,000 people

Side note 2 - Large Birmingham firms list by number of attorneys in Birmingham (ranked in 2009)
Bradley Arant 190
Burr & Forman 145
Maynard Cooper 157
Balch & Bingham 153
Sirote & Permutt 92
Baker Donelson 72
Haskell Slaughter 70
Starnes & Atchison 59
Lightfoot Franklin 56
Johnston Barton 55
Carr Allison 53

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:22 pm

Aberzombie1892 wrote:The low offer rates of southern firms is the norm. While the large Atlanta firms generally do a better job, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, etc. firms seem to frequently have offer rates of about 1/2 (half of the summer associates receive offers) or sometimes less. However, they all allow people to split their summers.

Side note 1 - the Birmingham Metro has about 1,150,000 people

Side note 2 - Large Birmingham firms list by number of attorneys in Birmingham (ranked in 2009)
Bradley Arant 190
Burr & Forman 145
Maynard Cooper 157
Balch & Bingham 153
Sirote & Permutt 92
Baker Donelson 72
Haskell Slaughter 70
Starnes Davis & Florie 59
Lightfoot Franklin 56
Johnston Barton 55
Carr Allison 53

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Grizz
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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Grizz » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:23 pm

Starnes Atchison = Starnes Davis Florie

edit: beaten

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:26 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:No one really has an explanation for why there are so many 1L positions in Birmingham and the state of Alabama as a whole. The statement about no offers is correct, though. It's not uncommon for a firm with a class of 5 to only extend an offer to 1 person. I've personally seen places with as many as 10 1L and 2L clerks total only offer 2 total. I also know folks who clerked at a place for two straight summers with no permanent offer in the end. That said, they do expect you to have something else; every firm I can think of has only a 6 week program, and most people end up clerking at two firms during the summer.



Or what the Birmingham salary scale is apparently. :?

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:No one really has an explanation for why there are so many 1L positions in Birmingham and the state of Alabama as a whole. The statement about no offers is correct, though. It's not uncommon for a firm with a class of 5 to only extend an offer to 1 person. I've personally seen places with as many as 10 1L and 2L clerks total only offer 2 total. I also know folks who clerked at a place for two straight summers with no permanent offer in the end. That said, they do expect you to have something else; every firm I can think of has only a 6 week program, and most people end up clerking at two firms during the summer.



Or what the Birmingham salary scale is apparently. :?


Top firms start at 110, everyone else is lower. No idea what the lockstep progression is.

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Grizz
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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Grizz » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:28 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:Top firms start at 110, everyone else is lower. No idea what the lockstep progression is.

I'm also under the impression that there's no "market" like there is for a place like NYC or even ATL.

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:29 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:Top firms start at 110, everyone else is lower. No idea what the lockstep progression is.


I wonder if it's super compressed.

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quakeroats
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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby quakeroats » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:40 pm

Grizz wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:That is a crazy amount of 1Ls, I had heard Birmingham hired a lot but didn't know this many.


What's the catch? They seem to be hiring more SAs than a small Southern market should be able to bear. Can anyone shed some light on the dynamics of Birmingham biglaw?

Common for people to have 2 firms, because programs are six weeks usually. Also, anecdotally, no-offers are more common.

Edited for repetition


Still, the going idea of SA positions is that they lose money for small-market firms unless they're converted to permanent positions. Why would these firms waste their money hiring well more than they need?

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Aqualibrium » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:41 pm

quakeroats wrote:
Grizz wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:That is a crazy amount of 1Ls, I had heard Birmingham hired a lot but didn't know this many.


What's the catch? They seem to be hiring more SAs than a small Southern market should be able to bear. Can anyone shed some light on the dynamics of Birmingham biglaw?

Common for people to have 2 firms, because programs are six weeks usually. Also, anecdotally, no-offers are more common.

Edited for repetition


Still, the going idea of SA positions is that they lose money for small-market firms unless they're converted to permanent positions. Why would these firms waste their money hiring well more than they need?


million dollar question...

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby de5igual » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:43 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:Top firms start at 110, everyone else is lower. No idea what the lockstep progression is.


I wonder if it's super compressed.


http://www.infirmation.com/shared/search/payscale-compare.tcl?city=Birmingham&usps_abbrev=AL]

this chart's a little outdated, but the pay-raise structure probably hasn't changed all that much

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quakeroats
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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby quakeroats » Sun Aug 07, 2011 10:45 pm

Aqualibrium wrote:
quakeroats wrote:
Grizz wrote:
quakeroats wrote:That is a crazy amount of 1Ls, I had heard Birmingham hired a lot but didn't know this many.


What's the catch? They seem to be hiring more SAs than a small Southern market should be able to bear. Can anyone shed some light on the dynamics of Birmingham biglaw?

Common for people to have 2 firms, because programs are six weeks usually. Also, anecdotally, no-offers are more common.

Edited for repetition

Still, the going idea of SA positions is that they lose money for small-market firms unless they're converted to permanent positions. Why would these firms waste their money hiring well more than they need?


million dollar question...


Perhaps if they're only six weeks, firms get to double their selection at the same cost. If so, that's a much better method than relying on grades and callbacks. I wonder why bigger firms haven't looked at this.

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 08, 2011 1:02 am

quakeroats wrote:
Aqualibrium wrote:million dollar question...


Perhaps if they're only six weeks, firms get to double their selection at the same cost. If so, that's a much better method than relying on grades and callbacks. I wonder why bigger firms haven't looked at this.


Bham firms hire clerks for 6 weeks, most everyone splits. Bham SA salaries are also much lower than other markets (1,300 is "market" for 2Ls). Thus, the firms spend less on salaries and time commitments, yet get to look at twice the number of people. For law students, you get to look at two firms each summer, so it may be easier to find a good fit (assuming you get offers at both places).

As far as salary progression goes, it is very compressed. You start at 110 but don't get much higher until you make partner. The difference is that partnership track is 7 years and it's not as difficult to get there. I think it's a pretty fair shake, honestly. Associates get a lot more hands-on experience here. There are several BigLaw (NY, DC, etc.) laterals I've worked with this summer, and they've all reported that they came in below class-year because they just don't have the experience that the other mid-levels do here. Burning through doc review and due diligence for two straight years doesn't give you any transferable skills.

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:11 am

What's selectivity like for B'ham firms? Could someone rank Bradley, Balch, Baker Donelson, Maynard, and Lightfoot? What are the reputations of each firm? Advantages/disadvantages to each?

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:23 am

Anonymous User wrote:What's selectivity like for B'ham firms? Could someone rank Bradley, Balch, Baker Donelson, Maynard, and Lightfoot? What are the reputations of each firm? Advantages/disadvantages to each?


Bradley is the flagship firm of the state.

Lightfoot is an outstanding litigation boutique (probably the most selective).

Balch and Maynard are both excellent full service firms, but probably a notch below bradley.

Baker Donelson is a good firm, but below all of the above.

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Grizz
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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Grizz » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:27 am

Starnes has gotta be up there. Chambers ranks them pretty highly for lit.

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's selectivity like for B'ham firms? Could someone rank Bradley, Balch, Baker Donelson, Maynard, and Lightfoot? What are the reputations of each firm? Advantages/disadvantages to each?


Bradley is the flagship firm of the state.

Lightfoot is an outstanding litigation boutique (probably the most selective).

Balch and Maynard are both excellent full service firms, but probably a notch below bradley.

Baker Donelson is a good firm, but below all of the above.


Thanks. Lightfoot says they take top 50 percent at UVA on symplicity. I wonder what that means about the selectivity of the other firms.

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:What's selectivity like for B'ham firms? Could someone rank Bradley, Balch, Baker Donelson, Maynard, and Lightfoot? What are the reputations of each firm? Advantages/disadvantages to each?


Bradley is the flagship firm of the state.

Lightfoot is an outstanding litigation boutique (probably the most selective).

Balch and Maynard are both excellent full service firms, but probably a notch below bradley.

Baker Donelson is a good firm, but below all of the above.


Thanks. Lightfoot says they take top 50 percent at UVA on symplicity. I wonder what that means about the selectivity of the other firms.


I know for a fact Bradley has a hard cutoff at median. Pretty sure the reality at lightfoot is slightly higher than that. The other firms will hire below median for sure.

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:41 pm

What are partner salaries like in B'ham? 200K?

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:What are partner salaries like in B'ham? 200K?


Partner salaries are sliding based on a variety of factors. Fairly certain starting partner salary is around 235.

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Aug 22, 2011 5:50 pm

Can anyone share their experience with Balch and Bingham? Quality of life, work, and the sort of people that work there? How are they with grades/selectivity from top schools?

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Re: Birmingham Law Firms - from Vandy and Duke

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Aug 24, 2011 9:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Can anyone share their experience with Balch and Bingham? Quality of life, work, and the sort of people that work there? How are they with grades/selectivity from top schools?



Anyone??




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