Contingency plans for 3Ls

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Anonymous User
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Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:25 pm

I'm a rising 3L who has a decent job this summer, but was told when I was being hired that my summer position probably wouldn't become a full-time position. After I use my summer earnings to pay off a portion of my loans, I'll have about $25-30K in loans, so I'm not in a completely terrible financial situation. I'm at a T20 (bottom 50%) and my undergrad degree is in finance. I'm going to do 3L OCI, though realistically, I probably won't get any offers since 3L OCI is so small. I'm planning on applying throughout the year when I see decent positions listed on symplicity. I'm also applying to consulting positions and the like through the undergrad career fair. I have one more contingency plan that will involve more education (but won't require taking out much more additional debt) though I'm reluctant to discuss that option since it might out me. I was just wondering if anyone had any other recommendations about things I can do to secure employment.

I'm flexible about whether it should be strictly legal-related or not. With that in mind, does anyone know how I should go about applying to non-legal jobs? Should I just go through online career websites, or does anyone know of any decent employment agencies that place people with finance backgrounds and wouldn't be put off by the JD (I know good companies use recruiting agencies to recruit employees and your chances going through one of these agencies is a lot better than just applying through the company's online application site, but I'm having a hard time finding these types of employment agencies).

These past two years have really made me re-think what I want out of life. I don't need a ton of money (which is great considering getting a job that pays a ton of money is probably not an option right now). I just want to be able to pay off my loans and support myself.

Recommendations?
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Danteshek
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Danteshek » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:28 pm

You can apply to compliance positions with financial institutions/asset managers/hedge funds. You'll probably need to be in New York.

boaltrising3l
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby boaltrising3l » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:46 pm

Rising 3l in top 20%, I'mlooking at getting into teaching high school. For about the same pay as law firm you can have more fun interacting with students all day abs the security is a lot better too. I currently know people teaching with just a bachelors so this could be a good way to go.

Anonymous User
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:03 pm

boaltrising3l wrote:Rising 3l in top 20%, I'mlooking at getting into teaching high school. For about the same pay as law firm you can have more fun interacting with students all day abs the security is a lot better too. I currently know people teaching with just a bachelors so this could be a good way to go.

OP here. I've considered that. I've even considered TFA. But teaching jobs are fairly scarce right now, too. I would teach math, though (I love math and think that I would really enjoy teaching it) and I think math positions may be possible to get into. How exactly are you going to do it? Are you going to do TFA? How are you dealing with the credential issue? Emergency credential? Are you applying to masters in teaching programs? I'd like to know! And thank you for chiming in with your thoughts. Any suggestions are much appreciated (also good to know that others have re-thought entering the legal profession...makes me feel less crazy). Also, good luck w/ teaching!

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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Anonymous User » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:04 pm

Danteshek wrote:You can apply to compliance positions with financial institutions/asset managers/hedge funds. You'll probably need to be in New York.

OP here. I've considered this as well. Any tips on how to go about getting one of these jobs?

Danteshek
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Danteshek » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Danteshek wrote:You can apply to compliance positions with financial institutions/asset managers/hedge funds. You'll probably need to be in New York.

OP here. I've considered this as well. Any tips on how to go about getting one of these jobs?


Research the firms you could see yourself working for and apply? Network with financial industry recruiters? Internship with a fund? You know the drill.

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theturkeyisfat
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby theturkeyisfat » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a rising 3L who has a decent job this summer, but was told when I was being hired that my summer position probably wouldn't become a full-time position. After I use my summer earnings to pay off a portion of my loans, I'll have about $25-30K in loans, so I'm not in a completely terrible financial situation. I'm at a T20 (bottom 50%) and my undergrad degree is in finance. I'm going to do 3L OCI, though realistically, I probably won't get any offers since 3L OCI is so small. I'm planning on applying throughout the year when I see decent positions listed on symplicity. I'm also applying to consulting positions and the like through the undergrad career fair. I have one more contingency plan that will involve more education (but won't require taking out much more additional debt) though I'm reluctant to discuss that option since it might out me. I was just wondering if anyone had any other recommendations about things I can do to secure employment.

I'm flexible about whether it should be strictly legal-related or not. With that in mind, does anyone know how I should go about applying to non-legal jobs? Should I just go through online career websites, or does anyone know of any decent employment agencies that place people with finance backgrounds and wouldn't be put off by the JD (I know good companies use recruiting agencies to recruit employees and your chances going through one of these agencies is a lot better than just applying through the company's online application site, but I'm having a hard time finding these types of employment agencies).

These past two years have really made me re-think what I want out of life. I don't need a ton of money (which is great considering getting a job that pays a ton of money is probably not an option right now). I just want to be able to pay off my loans and support myself.

Recommendations?


With finance and law.. Maybe estate planning? Or financial advising?

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Julio_El_Chavo
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Julio_El_Chavo » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:30 pm

Just do SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, bro.

Danteshek
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Danteshek » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:24 am

If you have a year of law school left, consider loading up on tax law classes. Especially if your school has an LLM program.

seatown12
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby seatown12 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:53 am

Anonymous User wrote:I'm going to do 3L OCI, though realistically, I probably won't get any offers since 3L OCI is so small. I'm planning on applying throughout the year when I see decent positions listed on symplicity. I'm also applying to consulting positions and the like through the undergrad career fair.

Just generally you need to be way more proactive than this. You can't wait for shit to fall into your lap via the school or symplicity. You need to start doing intensive research on your own to find out which employers in which fields interest you and start sending your materials to them.

MrAnon
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:01 am

Danteshek wrote:If you have a year of law school left, consider loading up on tax law classes. Especially if your school has an LLM program.


This is awful advice. If you cannot find a job after 3 years of law school then going back for a 4th year of law school isn't going to be helpful. Plus you'll be competing against LLM students with actual background, experience, and jobs in the tax field, not just people running for the program because they couldn't find work. Guess who ends up with the top grades in the program?

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A'nold
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby A'nold » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:04 am

MrAnon wrote:
Danteshek wrote:If you have a year of law school left, consider loading up on tax law classes. Especially if your school has an LLM program.


This is awful advice. If you cannot find a job after 3 years of law school then going back for a 4th year of law school isn't going to be helpful. Plus you'll be competing against LLM students with actual background, experience, and jobs in the tax field, not just people running for the program because they couldn't find work. Guess who ends up with the top grades in the program?

I agree that it might not be the best option but in all fairness I know a guy that had no experience and finished at the top of his LLM tax class.

MrAnon
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby MrAnon » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:06 am

A'nold wrote:
MrAnon wrote:
Danteshek wrote:If you have a year of law school left, consider loading up on tax law classes. Especially if your school has an LLM program.


This is awful advice. If you cannot find a job after 3 years of law school then going back for a 4th year of law school isn't going to be helpful. Plus you'll be competing against LLM students with actual background, experience, and jobs in the tax field, not just people running for the program because they couldn't find work. Guess who ends up with the top grades in the program?

I agree that it might not be the best option but in all fairness I know a guy that had no experience and finished at the top of his LLM tax class.


I know a guy who knows that guy.

Danteshek
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Danteshek » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:06 am

I did not suggest that OP do a fourth year. Read more carefully. A 3L can take advanced courses in taxation if the school has a decent program.

boaltrising3l
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby boaltrising3l » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:11 am

If you go back to your local high school or high school district and explain your experience and your desire to teach, you have a pretty good chance I think of teaching. Most people at my school had local Cal St BS credentials, they are glad to have someone so educated and passionate about teaching. I think it's a very solid idea.

Re: Tax. It's incredibly rare to find these positions. Not sure why people on TLS think it's such a good idea.

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A'nold
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby A'nold » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:13 am

Danteshek wrote:I did not suggest that OP do a fourth year. Read more carefully. A 3L can take advanced courses in taxation if the school has a decent program.

Also, I agree with Dante that it did not seem like he was suggesting the op do an LLM in tax.

Danteshek
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Danteshek » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:20 am

Knowing tax is incredibly useful for a wide range of lawyer careers.
-any transactional work
-any in house work
-employee benefits practice
-a number of government agencies
-tax controversy
-estate planning
-wealth management
-family offices
-criminal tax practice
The list goes on.

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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:22 am

seatown12 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm going to do 3L OCI, though realistically, I probably won't get any offers since 3L OCI is so small. I'm planning on applying throughout the year when I see decent positions listed on symplicity. I'm also applying to consulting positions and the like through the undergrad career fair.

Just generally you need to be way more proactive than this. You can't wait for shit to fall into your lap via the school or symplicity. You need to start doing intensive research on your own to find out which employers in which fields interest you and start sending your materials to them.

That's why I was asking this board for help about how to be more proactive in finding and applying for jobs. I know that there's a lot more that I could be doing which is why I came to this site. How would you recommend going about finding reputable employers in fields that interest you? How do you sift through the garbage and the places that seem like decent firms? Also, how would you recommend keeping the search as broad as possible (for example, it might be hard to convince a firm specializing in family law that I genuinely would be interested in doing that type of work if my undergrad major is in finance and I have no work experience specifically relevant to family law). Any tips would be helpful!

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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:28 am

Danteshek wrote:Knowing tax is incredibly useful for a wide range of lawyer careers.
-any transactional work
-any in house work
-employee benefits practice
-a number of government agencies
-tax controversy
-estate planning
-wealth management
-family offices
-criminal tax practice
The list goes on.

I've considered tax. It's actually my other option in my original post. I qualify for the CPA exam and am going to apply to some accounting firms, and I'm going to start researching smaller tax firms in my region to see what's available. This is what I'm leaning towards actually, but I'm worried it won't work out. There are a shit ton of people on tax talent w/ LLMs from NYU that say the LLM was a total waste of money, which makes me worried that tax is a difficult field to break into. On the other hand, there are quite a few people who post who have gotten jobs w/ just the JD so maybe I have a shot. This is actually my first preference. I didn't explain fully, but I'm doing quite a bit to try to make this work out (joining the tax society to network next semester, going to the recruiting sessions that the accounting firms have on campus, contacting alumni that work in the tax field). I'm just nervous it won't work out and am trying to find some other back-ups.

Danteshek
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Danteshek » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:36 am

Cool. I hadn't even thought of accounting firms. I am gearing up to do the Concentration in Tax Law at Loyola. I am taking the following courses this year:

-Employee Pensions and Benefits
-Income Tax Timing Issues
-Honors Tax Policy Colloquium
-Corporate Tax I & II
-Tax Law Practicum

I am also taking

-Financial Institutions
-Securities Regulation
-Marital Property
-Trusts and Wills

Anonymous User
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:38 am

boaltrising3l wrote:If you go back to your local high school or high school district and explain your experience and your desire to teach, you have a pretty good chance I think of teaching. Most people at my school had local Cal St BS credentials, they are glad to have someone so educated and passionate about teaching. I think it's a very solid idea.

Re: Tax. It's incredibly rare to find these positions. Not sure why people on TLS think it's such a good idea.

Really? Are you sure that's enough? Most of the positions I've seen on edjoin say that emergency credentials aren't accepted. Is this something that is just well-known?

I'm interested in tax, but I'm worried about how difficult it will be to find a position.

Danteshek
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Danteshek » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:15 am

You can't be timid in this market. Make up your your mind and go for it. You can have a contingency plan, but your goals should be clear and your actions consistent with those goals. If you keep equivocating, you will find yourself unemployed.

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A'nold
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby A'nold » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:34 am

Danteshek wrote:You can't be timid in this market. Make up your your mind and go for it. You can have a contingency plan, but your goals should be clear and your actions consistent with those goals. If you keep equivocating, you will find yourself unemployed.

I realized this around the middle of last year and really started focusing hard on prosecution. It doesn't mean that I won't be applying to other things as contingencies or maybe other just as good or better opportunities (who knows, ya know?), just that I am focusing my classes, internships, etc. around criminal law. I dabbled in a lot of different areas from 1L to halfway through 2L, but quickly saw the writing on the wall. I couldn't just treat prosecution and my other interests such as tort law or bankruptcy law as equal anymore and whichever one fell into my lap I'd be content with; I basically had to choose one and run with it to build the kind of resume that shows dedication and commitment to a certain field, prosecution, where you have to convince the interviewer that you are 100% on board and that I planned on being where I am.

Edit: Sorry if this was incoherent; my sleeping pills have probably kicked in by now. 8)

Anonymous User
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:42 am

A'nold wrote:
Danteshek wrote:You can't be timid in this market. Make up your your mind and go for it. You can have a contingency plan, but your goals should be clear and your actions consistent with those goals. If you keep equivocating, you will find yourself unemployed.

I realized this around the middle of last year and really started focusing hard on prosecution. It doesn't mean that I won't be applying to other things as contingencies or maybe other just as good or better opportunities (who knows, ya know?), just that I am focusing my classes, internships, etc. around criminal law. I dabbled in a lot of different areas from 1L to halfway through 2L, but quickly saw the writing on the wall. I couldn't just treat prosecution and my other interests such as tort law or bankruptcy law as equal anymore and whichever one fell into my lap I'd be content with; I basically had to choose one and run with it to build the kind of resume that shows dedication and commitment to a certain field, prosecution, where you have to convince the interviewer that you are 100% on board and that I planned on being where I am.

Edit: Sorry if this was incoherent; my sleeping pills have probably kicked in by now. 8)

Yeah, I agree. This is something to think about. I've definitely padded my resume as much as possible to show my interest in tax, but in the back of my mind, there's this fear that I'll have an essentially useless resume if I can't get into that specific field. I know we're all facing this problem, though, of trying to show an interest and dedication towards the field you want to enter, but not wanting to lead yourself to the slaughter should you have trouble finding a job in that field. I just don't want to wind up one of those people on tax talent who's been jobless for two years and can't find a non-tax job b/c their LLM clearly shows they wanted to practice in the tax field.

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legalresearch
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Re: Contingency plans for 3Ls

Postby legalresearch » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:51 am

If you are unable to find a suitable job..

Have you thought about an MBA? If you get an MBA for a ranked school with an emphasis in Accounting, you have two years to network and specialize in your new field.

You are much better off than so many people, you have a practical undergrad major, CPA eligible, and relatively low debt. Right now is the time to step back and be realistic about your legal career, do you want to continue on or would it be more beneficial to hit the reset button on your career? As far as financing your MBA, shop yourself around and try to get as much $$$ out of the schools as possible.

Here's an example of someone who has the Law accounting MBA credentials..

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