What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

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zachanson
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Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:03 pm

What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby zachanson » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:27 pm

totally a newbie here.
are you guys talking about rising 3L's mass mailing for assoc. positions,
or rising 2L's mass making for summer assoc. positions?

either way, i'm kinda surprised to see quite a few discussions about mass mailing b/c it doesn't look very promising, certainly not efficient..

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blurbz
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby blurbz » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:30 pm

Right now we're generally talking about rising 2Ls mailing firms that aren't coming to their OCIs. It's not particularly fun or efficient and, honestly, it might not be particularly effective, either. I've sent about 30 out and I think it's worth it. I haven't heard anything back yet, but at least I know that I have a shot at 30 more firms than I would have if I was just relying on OCI to get a job. In this economy, I'll do whatever it takes to score a job even if it only amounts to a tiny increase in probability.

Anonymous User
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:33 pm

blurbz wrote:Right now we're generally talking about rising 2Ls mailing firms that aren't coming to their OCIs. It's not particularly fun or efficient and, honestly, it might not be particularly effective, either. I've sent about 30 out and I think it's worth it. I haven't heard anything back yet, but at least I know that I have a shot at 30 more firms than I would have if I was just relying on OCI to get a job. In this economy, I'll do whatever it takes to score a job even if it only amounts to a tiny increase in probability.


what makes me hesitate is that if you are talking about big law hiring, they've already got so many OCI and career fair campaigns to be busy with.

yeah i seen those firms' career website saying "if you don't see your school on our OCI list, please email bla bla", but i always feel that no one would really read those tons of emails sent to recruiting@XYZ.com

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thesealocust
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby thesealocust » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:35 pm

Mass mailing is a term of art that refers to applying to legal jobs via sending your materials to a firm rather than applying by bidding on them in an on campus interview program. That's it - the term 'mass' just comes from the fact that most people apply to a lot. As a rising 2L, I 'mass mailed' 5 firms total.

Odds of getting a job you apply for: Low
Odds of getting a job you don't apply for: Zero

And for those of you skeptical about it, I and others have received callbacks and offers from firms which were not doing OCI at our school that we sent application materials to regardless.

Geist13
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby Geist13 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:40 pm

As far as I understand it, "mass mailing" just refers to emailing/mailing applications, as opposed to OCI. Some people may use "mass mailing" to refer to a resume dump as opposed to targeted applications which are particular to the individual firm. However, I can't really see how firm cover letters can really vary that much from one firm to the next (especially for 2Ls who only know they want to do litigation because they did well in civ pro). They're all going to be more or less the same when written by a 20 something with no real job experience to relate. So for me, mass mailing just means mailing applications to firms in the markets you want to apply and I'm not sure how else you're supposed to apply outside of OCI and your contacts who agree to forward your application on your behalf.

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blurbz
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby blurbz » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:41 pm

Yeah, I haven't heard anything yet this round, but I only began mass mailing last week.

Last semester, though, I scored 2 biglaw interviews through mass mailing my 1L fall semester grades to biglaw firms. It definitely can work.

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kalvano
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:49 pm

I plan to start this week. A lot of mid-to-smaller firms don't come to OCI because they don't have set needs every year to plan around, but they might be interested in you if you contact them.

The worst that can happen is that you waste a week or so of your time and end up with no interviews.

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IrwinM.Fletcher
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby IrwinM.Fletcher » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:53 pm

1L sucks. You work hard and endure tons of stress. Why? So that you can get a job.

Imagine how pissed you'd be if you struck out and had not done everything in your power to get one of the jobs that are available. Talk about /self. If I'm going down, it'll be knowing that I gave it my best shot.

Anonymous User
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:58 pm

I sent out about 7 targeted cover letters to local mid sizes firms over the weekend. Already got 2 calls asking me to come in for interviews. I always throw in a paragraph with some tailored stuff about the firm. This is especially true for my home market, where geographic loyalty is very important. So the whole mass mailing thing has certainly worked for me so far. Keep in mind that these are not big Vault firms, but local firms that people outside of my market likely never heard of. I doubt I would be hearing anything if I was mailing the big firms.

zachanson
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby zachanson » Mon Jul 18, 2011 7:58 pm

kalvano wrote:I plan to start this week. A lot of mid-to-smaller firms don't come to OCI because they don't have set needs every year to plan around, but they might be interested in you if you contact them.

The worst that can happen is that you waste a week or so of your time and end up with no interviews.



if the target is the small firms that don't hire thru OCIs, i feel that they would not decide hiring plans until after Oct, Nov....or even Mar, Apr.

anyways, i think there's better use of the time, but point taken. actually i might start doing it too lol

merc280
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby merc280 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:00 pm

blurbz wrote:Yeah, I haven't heard anything yet this round, but I only began mass mailing last week.

Last semester, though, I scored 2 biglaw interviews through mass mailing my 1L fall semester grades to biglaw firms. It definitely can work.



Around what time did you mass mail for a 1L SA position. Right after you got your first semester grades, or before and then just update them?

zachanson
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby zachanson » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I sent out about 7 targeted cover letters to local mid sizes firms over the weekend. Already got 2 calls asking me to come in for interviews. I always throw in a paragraph with some tailored stuff about the firm. This is especially true for my home market, where geographic loyalty is very important. So the whole mass mailing thing has certainly worked for me so far. Keep in mind that these are not big Vault firms, but local firms that people outside of my market likely never heard of. I doubt I would be hearing anything if I was mailing the big firms.


nice!
that makes sense.
i don't mind working for a boutique that has substantive and interesting work with crappy pay. my problem is that the market is so bad, and i don't know which small firms are looking to hire and where they are hiding.

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blurbz
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby blurbz » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:13 pm

zachanson wrote:
kalvano wrote:I plan to start this week. A lot of mid-to-smaller firms don't come to OCI because they don't have set needs every year to plan around, but they might be interested in you if you contact them.

The worst that can happen is that you waste a week or so of your time and end up with no interviews.



if the target is the small firms that don't hire thru OCIs, i feel that they would not decide hiring plans until after Oct, Nov....or even Mar, Apr.

anyways, i think there's better use of the time, but point taken. actually i might start doing it too lol


What is a better use of your time? How else are you planning on getting a job?
merc280 wrote:
blurbz wrote:Yeah, I haven't heard anything yet this round, but I only began mass mailing last week.

Last semester, though, I scored 2 biglaw interviews through mass mailing my 1L fall semester grades to biglaw firms. It definitely can work.



Around what time did you mass mail for a 1L SA position. Right after you got your first semester grades, or before and then just update them?



I sent a bunch out on Dec. 1 and got one call within a week and then updated all of them when grades came out. That's when I got the other call. I got positive responses, too, from firms who didn't have 1L SAs but were wiling to do an informational interview.

merc280
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby merc280 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:20 pm

blurbz wrote:
zachanson wrote:
kalvano wrote:I plan to start this week. A lot of mid-to-smaller firms don't come to OCI because they don't have set needs every year to plan around, but they might be interested in you if you contact them.

The worst that can happen is that you waste a week or so of your time and end up with no interviews.



if the target is the small firms that don't hire thru OCIs, i feel that they would not decide hiring plans until after Oct, Nov....or even Mar, Apr.

anyways, i think there's better use of the time, but point taken. actually i might start doing it too lol


What is a better use of your time? How else are you planning on getting a job?
merc280 wrote:
blurbz wrote:Yeah, I haven't heard anything yet this round, but I only began mass mailing last week.

Last semester, though, I scored 2 biglaw interviews through mass mailing my 1L fall semester grades to biglaw firms. It definitely can work.



Around what time did you mass mail for a 1L SA position. Right after you got your first semester grades, or before and then just update them?



I sent a bunch out on Dec. 1 and got one call within a week and then updated all of them when grades came out. That's when I got the other call. I got positive responses, too, from firms who didn't have 1L SAs but were wiling to do an informational interview.


i'm going to have to do that since not alot of firms from my hometown coming to OCI.

Anonymous User
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:23 pm

zachanson wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I sent out about 7 targeted cover letters to local mid sizes firms over the weekend. Already got 2 calls asking me to come in for interviews. I always throw in a paragraph with some tailored stuff about the firm. This is especially true for my home market, where geographic loyalty is very important. So the whole mass mailing thing has certainly worked for me so far. Keep in mind that these are not big Vault firms, but local firms that people outside of my market likely never heard of. I doubt I would be hearing anything if I was mailing the big firms.


nice!
that makes sense.
i don't mind working for a boutique that has substantive and interesting work with crappy pay. my problem is that the market is so bad, and i don't know which small firms are looking to hire and where they are hiding.


Never said that they are boutiques or have crappy pay. They are just highly regional mid-sized firms. They pay just under market rate for my state, which is a really nice salary in my opinion. So these are some very viable and desirable options. Do some searching on Martindale and you will likely find a bunch of firms you may not have been familiar with. The Vault list, NALP directory, etc. can only give you so much information. People would be overlooking some very solid local firms if they only relied on those sources.

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dood
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby dood » Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:53 pm

IrwinM.Fletcher wrote:1L sucks. You work hard and endure tons of stress. Why? So that you can get a job.

Imagine how pissed you'd be if you struck out and had not done everything in your power to get one of the jobs that are available. Talk about /self. If I'm going down, it'll be knowing that I gave it my best shot.


this is a good attitude that tends to work out. it did for me in every possible way.

success is just intersection of opportunity and hard work.

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kalvano
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:19 pm

zachanson wrote:
kalvano wrote:I plan to start this week. A lot of mid-to-smaller firms don't come to OCI because they don't have set needs every year to plan around, but they might be interested in you if you contact them.

The worst that can happen is that you waste a week or so of your time and end up with no interviews.



if the target is the small firms that don't hire thru OCIs, i feel that they would not decide hiring plans until after Oct, Nov....or even Mar, Apr.

anyways, i think there's better use of the time, but point taken. actually i might start doing it too lol



If they have an interest in you, they will demonstrate it. At that point, it's up to you to maintain any relationship so that you are first in their mind when it is time to hire. And a lot of firms have summer associate programs that don't warrant an OCI visit, but they might hire 1 or 2 people. The point is that it may only be a success rate of 5%, 10%, or maybe 20%, but as multiple people have said, it does work. Firms aren't going to come to you. At the worst, they throw it in the trash. At best, you get an interview and possibly a job. What's the downside?

As far as better use of time, what would that be? It's summer. I'm almost done with internships. I've got nothing else going on. Might as well do something productive. There is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

phonepro
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby phonepro » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:30 pm

I find it very difficult to "tailor" a cover letter to each specific firm. If you are born and raised in the market you want to work in, selling why you want to work in that region isnt applicable. All big firms have the same practice areas, etc, etc.

How can you actually tailor your cover letter differently from the V26 firm to the V33 firm?

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kalvano
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:38 pm

phonepro wrote:I find it very difficult to "tailor" a cover letter to each specific firm. If you are born and raised in the market you want to work in, selling why you want to work in that region isnt applicable. All big firms have the same practice areas, etc, etc.

How can you actually tailor your cover letter differently from the V26 firm to the V33 firm?



Research. Figure out something they do differently, be it the way they run their SA program or the way they assign work to first-years associates. There is something to talk about. See the stickied research thread for places to conduct such research.

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beach_terror
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby beach_terror » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:41 pm

kalvano wrote:
phonepro wrote:I find it very difficult to "tailor" a cover letter to each specific firm. If you are born and raised in the market you want to work in, selling why you want to work in that region isnt applicable. All big firms have the same practice areas, etc, etc.

How can you actually tailor your cover letter differently from the V26 firm to the V33 firm?



Research. Figure out something they do differently, be it the way they run their SA program or the way they assign work to first-years associates. There is something to talk about. See the stickied research thread for places to conduct such research.

I just use a generic cover letter and copy and paste the firms name in and then highlight the interesting practices :oops:

Anonymous User
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:44 pm

phonepro wrote:I find it very difficult to "tailor" a cover letter to each specific firm. If you are born and raised in the market you want to work in, selling why you want to work in that region isnt applicable. All big firms have the same practice areas, etc, etc.

How can you actually tailor your cover letter differently from the V26 firm to the V33 firm?


At the interview, they will ask you "Why our firm?" If you can't think of an answer to that question, you will have problems. Yes, it is hard to find differentiation between seemingly identical firms, but its something that must be done. Perhaps they allow for a lot of pro bono work, have a reputation for giving a lot of responsibility to first year associates, etc. I'll admit that this is much easier with smaller or regional firms, but its sort of a necessity that you be able to articulate why you like a firm in particular, whether it be in the cover letter or at the interview.

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kalvano
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:56 pm

beach_terror wrote:
kalvano wrote:
phonepro wrote:I find it very difficult to "tailor" a cover letter to each specific firm. If you are born and raised in the market you want to work in, selling why you want to work in that region isnt applicable. All big firms have the same practice areas, etc, etc.

How can you actually tailor your cover letter differently from the V26 firm to the V33 firm?



Research. Figure out something they do differently, be it the way they run their SA program or the way they assign work to first-years associates. There is something to talk about. See the stickied research thread for places to conduct such research.

I just use a generic cover letter and copy and paste the firms name in and then highlight the interesting practices :oops:



I'm keeping my basic "who I am" info the same, but doing a unique opening paragraph for each firm. A lot of the places I am applying are outside my region, so I am also spending some time on why I want to be there.

PirateCap'n
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby PirateCap'n » Mon Jul 18, 2011 9:56 pm

beach_terror wrote:
kalvano wrote:
phonepro wrote:I find it very difficult to "tailor" a cover letter to each specific firm. If you are born and raised in the market you want to work in, selling why you want to work in that region isnt applicable. All big firms have the same practice areas, etc, etc.

How can you actually tailor your cover letter differently from the V26 firm to the V33 firm?



Research. Figure out something they do differently, be it the way they run their SA program or the way they assign work to first-years associates. There is something to talk about. See the stickied research thread for places to conduct such research.

I just use a generic cover letter and copy and paste the firms name in and then highlight the interesting practices :oops:


Same here. It worked pretty well as a 1L, so I don't see much reason to change it now.

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beach_terror
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby beach_terror » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:00 pm

PirateCap'n wrote:
beach_terror wrote:
kalvano wrote:
phonepro wrote:I find it very difficult to "tailor" a cover letter to each specific firm. If you are born and raised in the market you want to work in, selling why you want to work in that region isnt applicable. All big firms have the same practice areas, etc, etc.

How can you actually tailor your cover letter differently from the V26 firm to the V33 firm?



Research. Figure out something they do differently, be it the way they run their SA program or the way they assign work to first-years associates. There is something to talk about. See the stickied research thread for places to conduct such research.

I just use a generic cover letter and copy and paste the firms name in and then highlight the interesting practices :oops:


Same here. It worked pretty well as a 1L, so I don't see much reason to change it now.

The way I look at it is the cover letter is time to sell myself to get the interview, then the interview is time to ask good questions about the firm and all that.

stormy
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Re: What "mass mailing" are you guys talking about?

Postby stormy » Mon Jul 18, 2011 11:14 pm

I think these firms love it when they get resume-bombed for fall recruiting:

http://www.ropesgrayhiring.com/pages/join/summer.htm

Our Summer Associates
We recruit our summer associates from top law schools in the United States and Canada and are very fortunate to receive more than thirty-two applications for each summer associate position.

Love how the firm is counting up the apps. jerkoffs.




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