Huge grade drop....... OCI?

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IAFG
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:45 pm

Employers should love gays, are you kidding? If you're trying to grow the number of female associates while reducing the pregnancy costs, hiring lesbians is where it's at.

de5igual
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby de5igual » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:50 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
warumnicht wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:i don't understand why a firm cares about GLBT or would ever care. Who cares who your associates are sleeping with as long as it's legal? I can understand being a minority or from a specific cultural background giving a boost for potential client connections, but how often does who you're dating come up in a professional setting? Being diverse might give a firm better PR, but while anyone can see if a firm has URM employees, it is very difficult to predict orientation particularly in a field like law. I might be backwards, but it strikes me as both odd and unprofessional to talk about your sexual orientation at an interview.


I disagree.

As far as PR, it's true that you can't see sexual orientation on the surface the way you might ethnicity, but it's entirely possible for attorneys to demonstrate that they are of a particular sexual orientation in their biographies -- for example, they might be involved in LGBT-specific professional organizations and have that listed under their activities. (Not to say that all LGBT people are active in LGBT communities or that non-LGBT people aren't active in LGBT communities...but it is an indicator to some extent.)

And why wouldn't it be a boost for potential client connections? Some clients don't care who represents them as long as the attorney is competent, but other clients want someone they can relate to, and sexual orientation is certainly a way to accomplish that. It has nothing to do with dating, but it does have a lot to do with having to overcome a certain stigma, which unfortunately still exists in society. Especially in a profession that strikes many as overly buttoned-up and conservative, I can certainly see how a client who might have faced discrimination in the past would want to work with someone who understands where he or she is coming from.

This discussion is reminding me of that Sex and the City episode where Charlotte got a group of rich, powerful lesbian friends...

Agree to disagree.

I have a thing for blondes, have an I Love Blondes bumper sticker and was co-president of a club that ranked blonde women on campus. I don't see how who I'm sexually attracted to influences who I can get along with/relate to. It is just a subtle part of who I am like what kind of food I like.

Culture, race and religion are things that professionally can make a difference. I don't want to sound closed minded as I am pro-gay marriage, but the only reason is I just don't give a shit who people sleep with and who they're attracted to, and I feel most people think like me on this issue.


see that's the thing. it shouldn't make a difference and shouldn't be an issue, but society at large makes it into one by actively discriminating against LGBT people. There are no laws that restrict your preference for blondes, but there certainly are plenty of laws and policies in place that restrict an LGBT person's livelihood. If a firm wishes to mitigate these issues by having LGBT friendly employment policies and forging stronger relationships with LGBT organizations (and in the process, attracting qualified employees and major clients), why shouldn't they?

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thesealocust
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:46 pm

IAFG wrote:Employers should love gays, are you kidding? If you're trying to grow the number of female associates while reducing the pregnancy costs, hiring lesbians is where it's at.


And that's how you think like a lawyer.

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Chichaca
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Chichaca » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:52 pm

IAFG wrote:Employers should love gays, are you kidding? If you're trying to grow the number of female associates while reducing the pregnancy costs, hiring lesbians is where it's at.

Right, I forgot lesbians can't give birth.

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dailygrind
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby dailygrind » Tue Jul 19, 2011 6:58 pm

Chichaca wrote:
IAFG wrote:Employers should love gays, are you kidding? If you're trying to grow the number of female associates while reducing the pregnancy costs, hiring lesbians is where it's at.

Right, I forgot lesbians can't give birth.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that regardless of what they can and cannot do, they probably do not get pregnant nearly as often as straight women in their cohort.

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thesealocust
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby thesealocust » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:00 pm

dailygrind wrote:
Chichaca wrote:
IAFG wrote:Employers should love gays, are you kidding? If you're trying to grow the number of female associates while reducing the pregnancy costs, hiring lesbians is where it's at.

Right, I forgot lesbians can't give birth.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that regardless of what they can and cannot do, they probably do not get pregnant nearly as often as straight women in their cohort.


RACIST.

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dailygrind
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby dailygrind » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:05 pm

But my best friend is Jewish!

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Chichaca
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Chichaca » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:09 pm

dailygrind wrote:
Chichaca wrote:
IAFG wrote:Employers should love gays, are you kidding? If you're trying to grow the number of female associates while reducing the pregnancy costs, hiring lesbians is where it's at.

Right, I forgot lesbians can't give birth.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that regardless of what they can and cannot do, they probably do not get pregnant nearly as often as straight women in their cohort.

We're popping out babies left and right nowadays, especially since adoption's become practically impossible. Though from the firm's perspective, I guess there's roughly a 50% chance the one you hire won't be the one carrying the baby.

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vanwinkle
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby vanwinkle » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:13 pm

Aston2412 wrote:It's not about who people sleep with that adds to their professional capability. It's about the unique challenges that an LGBT individual faces in society. In many ways these challenges shape and define who an individual is and frequently breed resilience and self-reliance.

This.

And it actually can be valuable from an economic standpoint. In a non-diverse workplace, insensitive or inappropriate things sometimes happen unintentionally, simply because the organization had a knowledge gap. It doesn't happen that often, but since firms are competing hard for high-dollar clients, having more diversity can help them avoid mistakes that could cost them contracts.

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Lieut Kaffee
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Lieut Kaffee » Tue Jul 19, 2011 7:19 pm

If you tried to explain it, the interviewer would be forced to think, "This person is potentially a good candidate for our firm... provided she doesn't experience any relationship drama over the next 5-10 years."

flexityflex86
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby flexityflex86 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:29 pm

Maybe it is because I grew up on the east coast, but I don't see these big issues they face in 21st century America. Chastising somebody for being gay is considered ignorant and a huge no-no. Nobody gives a crap.

Aston2412
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Aston2412 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:49 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:Maybe it is because I grew up on the east coast, but I don't see these big issues they face in 21st century America. Chastising somebody for being gay is considered ignorant and a huge no-no. Nobody gives a crap.


Plenty of people give a crap. That's why gay marriage is only possible in, what, 6 states now? That's why marriage was previously possible in California but then, by popular referendum, was taken away. That's why numerous states have passed initiatives amending their constitutions to define marriage as between one man and one woman. That's why my own home state of Tennessee is attempting to pass a bill that prevents the word "gay" from being used in schools (its not for the positive reasons you're thinking of!). That's why Republicans in Congress are still defending the constitutionality of DOMA and why the 9th Circuit's cease-and-desist on DADT lasted approximately 18 hours before the decision was appealed and a stay issued by a three judge panel.

I won't deny that things are considerably better than they used to be, but to say that no one gives a crap is just wrong.

flexityflex86
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby flexityflex86 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 10:25 pm

Aston2412 wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:Maybe it is because I grew up on the east coast, but I don't see these big issues they face in 21st century America. Chastising somebody for being gay is considered ignorant and a huge no-no. Nobody gives a crap.


Plenty of people give a crap. That's why gay marriage is only possible in, what, 6 states now? That's why marriage was previously possible in California but then, by popular referendum, was taken away. That's why numerous states have passed initiatives amending their constitutions to define marriage as between one man and one woman. That's why my own home state of Tennessee is attempting to pass a bill that prevents the word "gay" from being used in schools (its not for the positive reasons you're thinking of!). That's why Republicans in Congress are still defending the constitutionality of DOMA and why the 9th Circuit's cease-and-desist on DADT lasted approximately 18 hours before the decision was appealed and a stay issued by a three judge panel.

I won't deny that things are considerably better than they used to be, but to say that no one gives a crap is just wrong.

marijuana is only partially legal in 1 state as is prostitution. does this mean most people think it should be illegal?

Aston2412
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Aston2412 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:11 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:
Aston2412 wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:Maybe it is because I grew up on the east coast, but I don't see these big issues they face in 21st century America. Chastising somebody for being gay is considered ignorant and a huge no-no. Nobody gives a crap.


Plenty of people give a crap. That's why gay marriage is only possible in, what, 6 states now? That's why marriage was previously possible in California but then, by popular referendum, was taken away. That's why numerous states have passed initiatives amending their constitutions to define marriage as between one man and one woman. That's why my own home state of Tennessee is attempting to pass a bill that prevents the word "gay" from being used in schools (its not for the positive reasons you're thinking of!). That's why Republicans in Congress are still defending the constitutionality of DOMA and why the 9th Circuit's cease-and-desist on DADT lasted approximately 18 hours before the decision was appealed and a stay issued by a three judge panel.

I won't deny that things are considerably better than they used to be, but to say that no one gives a crap is just wrong.

marijuana is only partially legal in 1 state as is prostitution. does this mean most people think it should be illegal?


Marijuana usually doesn't provoke the zealotry and vitriol that homosexuality does.

And if that's your argument to prove that people don't "care" about someone's LGBT status, you'll need to come up with a more convincing argument.

flexityflex86
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby flexityflex86 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:40 pm

well, things about religion always get a big reaction. if you mention a woman wearing a mini skirt in pakistan, many would get riled up. if you mention bring meat in a harry krishna's home they'd get wound up. however, the majority of people do not care. there are exceptions. i'm sure many people hate me for being jewish, but that doesn't mean i've personally gone through a ton.

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Cupidity
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Cupidity » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:41 pm

Aston2412 wrote:It's not about who people sleep with that adds to their professional capability. It's about the unique challenges that an LGBT individual faces in society. In many ways these challenges shape and define who an individual is and frequently breed resilience and self-reliance.


And we dress better than you breeders.

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Grizz
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Grizz » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:46 pm

Lieut Kaffee wrote:If you tried to explain it, the interviewer would be forced to think, "This person is potentially a good candidate for our firm... provided she doesn't experience any relationship drama over the next 5-10 years."


I tell firms I don't date so as to bill more hours.

Aston2412
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Aston2412 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:46 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:well, things about religion always get a big reaction. if you mention a woman wearing a mini skirt in pakistan, many would get riled up. if you mention bring meat in a harry krishna's home they'd get wound up. however, the majority of people do not care. there are exceptions. i'm sure many people hate me for being jewish, but that doesn't mean i've personally gone through a ton.


I think you're trying to equate two different things.

de5igual
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby de5igual » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:50 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:well, things about religion always get a big reaction. if you mention a woman wearing a mini skirt in pakistan, many would get riled up. if you mention bring meat in a harry krishna's home they'd get wound up. however, the majority of people do not care. there are exceptions. i'm sure many people hate me for being jewish, but that doesn't mean i've personally gone through a ton.


but there are no laws restricting you being jewish nor are there a slew of policies aimed at denying your existence. i would say that having a majority of states amending their constitutions to outlaw same-sex marriage a pretty clear signal that a majority do care.

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Borhas
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Borhas » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:16 am

does smoking marijuana count towards diversity hiring?

Anonymous User
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Wed Jul 20, 2011 12:29 am

To the marriage discussion, I heard that firms/interviewers (probably subconsciously) see married women as less attractive to hire, while married men get a slight bump in the interview process. Something about the woman is more likely to get pregnant and increase costs, while the man gets a slight bump because he's likeable enough to have someone marry him and obviously won't get pregnant. Anyone see truth in this?

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A'nold
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby A'nold » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:11 am

f0bolous wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:well, things about religion always get a big reaction. if you mention a woman wearing a mini skirt in pakistan, many would get riled up. if you mention bring meat in a harry krishna's home they'd get wound up. however, the majority of people do not care. there are exceptions. i'm sure many people hate me for being jewish, but that doesn't mean i've personally gone through a ton.


but there are no laws restricting you being jewish nor are there a slew of policies aimed at denying your existence. i would say that having a majority of states amending their constitutions to outlaw same-sex marriage a pretty clear signal that a majority do care.

I think people often mix up homophobia with someone being against something for their religious beliefs (disclaimer: I am not an opponent of gay marriage). While there are "hateful" Christians and members of other religious groups that are against gay marriage in a hateful way, I would say that most of the people are actually very kind and are just expressing their views about the whole "man and a woman" marriage thing. I don't think they do so out of hate.

Aston2412
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Aston2412 » Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:31 am

A'nold wrote:I think people often mix up homophobia with someone being against something for their religious beliefs (disclaimer: I am not an opponent of gay marriage). While there are "hateful" Christians and members of other religious groups that are against gay marriage in a hateful way, I would say that most of the people are actually very kind and are just expressing their views about the whole "man and a woman" marriage thing. I don't think they do so out of hate.


That is a valid point and while I don't agree with their opinion, I will not dispute their right to express it. However when that vocal majority expresses its opinion by using its voting power to suppress the rights of a minority, then I have a very large issue with it.

Either way, the fact remains that LGBT people are a class that, at present, the government and governments of various states authorize discrimination against, be it in marriage, by having failed to include LGBT in the Civil Rights Act to this point, by maintaining DADT and by the Republicans in Congress pursuing the defense of DOMA.




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