Huge grade drop....... OCI?

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k77
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Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby k77 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:43 am

So ... I'm a rising 2L at a T20 school. Fall semester, I was just above median. Spring semester, my fiancee told me she'd been cheating on me and left me two days before finals began.

Needless to say, I did terribly spring semester. Like, really terribly.

What in the hell do I do for OCI? Do I even bother?

Please don't be a-holes. I already have enough bitterness and hatred in my heart.

Thanks in advance.

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Borhas
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Borhas » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:30 am

sorry to hear that brother, but why not try?

I think others can probably give more specific help

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Grizz
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Grizz » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:39 am

You bother obviously, but you need to start looking into govt. and smaller firms ASAP. Good thing those orgs tend to not hire right now so you have time.

k77
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby k77 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:21 pm

op here

Thanks :)

To be more specific, my gpa is around 3.15 on a 3.3 curve and im on a secondary journal..

Is there any way to tactfully explain to firms what happened?

And also, idk whether diversity helps in these situations, but i'm LGBT (well, just L really :) ) and, while it's not obvious from my looks/mannerisms, it's obvious from my resume. Thoughts on how this might affect things (negatively or positively)?

thanks again :)

MrAnon
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby MrAnon » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:29 pm

Its unfortunate but firms are not looking for people who get emotionally affected by events such that they impinge on the ability to think clearly and do work more successfully.

Imagine you are working at a firm, a major project is due in two days, you have a ways to go with it, and your S.O. calls to tell you they are leaving you out of the blue. If you get upset and breakdown, which is a perfectly natural reaction, the firm suffers, the client suffers, your coworkers suffer. Its not just like law school where your own grades suffer.

So, don't explain this situation to anyone, just carry on. Say you got sick if it really has to come up.

Aston2412
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Aston2412 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:30 pm

Diversity does help. The extent to which it helps is highly debated on TLS.

flexityflex86
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby flexityflex86 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 2:32 pm

I don't have anything useful to add, but why did she tell you before finals???? How can she be so mean? What difference would waiting a month have made? If you're gonna cheat, the least you can do is think about the other person's career. I always make sure to consider a woman's career before cheating.

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kalvano
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby kalvano » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:28 pm

You have absolutely nothing to lose and quite a lot to gain from OCI.

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bjsesq
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:33 pm

k77 wrote:Is there any way to tactfully explain to firms what happened?


No. Please don't do this.

warumnicht
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby warumnicht » Mon Jul 18, 2011 3:43 pm

bjsesq wrote:
k77 wrote:Is there any way to tactfully explain to firms what happened?


No. Please don't do this.


This is exactly why you SHOULD do OCI. Your stats aren't great, and, coming from a T20, you should not be optimistic about OCI. However, it will give you a valuable opportunity to learn how explain the grade drop without telling the whole truth. If you're using sickness or the more vague "family problems" as an excuse, learn to do it convincingly. Don't let yourself get misty-eyed when you start talking about it (or visibly angry, or however you feel when you think about what happened). Even if you don't get an offer out of OCI, it will still do you a world of good.

As for your LGBT status, it probably won't provide much of a boost, but there are firms who really do care about diversity. At any rate, having a clear sign on your resume won't hurt you (and you wouldn't want to work at places that aren't accepting anyway).

And I'm very sorry to hear about your situation. What a lousy thing to do to someone, let alone someone so close to you.

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Borhas
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Borhas » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:03 pm

"while it was a trying time for me, I persevered and have since learned to cope by treating my work as an escape"

or something to that effect

sort of like that BS people spew "my one flaw? well it's because I work TOO hard"

09042014
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:05 pm

I think "my gf left me and I fucked up" is a terrible thing to have to explain in an interview.

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bjsesq
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby bjsesq » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:06 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I think "my gf left me and I fucked up" is a terrible thing to have to explain in an interview.


So don't. As someone mentioned earlier, talk about family problems or some other general shit. Specifics are not OP's friend here.

09042014
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby 09042014 » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:07 pm

bjsesq wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:I think "my gf left me and I fucked up" is a terrible thing to have to explain in an interview.


So don't. As someone mentioned earlier, talk about family problems or some other general shit. Specifics are not OP's friend here.


Yea I think it is a terrible idea to try to explain it.

goodolgil
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby goodolgil » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:10 pm

I think nowadays "fiance" is a pretty damn meaningless term nowadays unless there's a wedding scheduled. And even if there was, while it would may elicit a more sympathetic reaction, it would still be very awkward to explain
Last edited by goodolgil on Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Anonymous User » Mon Jul 18, 2011 5:34 pm

Do OCI anyway. You never know.

Don't try to explain the situation in detail. If asked, stick with a generic, emotionless response. Anything more comprehensive than, "I experienced a personal loss," or "There was some unexpected upheaval in my personal life" is too much information.

k77
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby k77 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:25 pm

thanks for the advice, everyone :) i think i'll stick to the vague/emotionless "family problems" approach. at the very least, i'll get some interview practice. yee haw.

Rule11
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Rule11 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:36 pm

You shouldn't freak out about the grade drop. To be honest, if you were median before, you were not really competitive for most OCI firms anyway. I mean no cruelty--what I'm saying is that, vis-a-vis OCI, you didn't lose much, so don't dwell on that.

There's no easy fix to your situation. If your ambition was to work at a large firm, you can safely lay that idea to rest. But, luckily, many public interest organizations are selective along different axes than firms--grades aren't always the linchpin.

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IAFG
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:41 pm

goodolgil wrote:I think nowadays "fiance" is a pretty damn meaningless term nowadays unless there's a wedding scheduled. And even if there was, while it would may elicit a more sympathetic reaction, it would still be very awkward to explain

What an odd combination of unhelpful and insensitive

09042014
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:44 pm

In your girlfriends defense. A wise man once said, "eatin' ain't cheatin'."

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IAFG
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby IAFG » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:45 pm

Desert Fox wrote:In your girlfriends defense. A wise man once said, "eatin' ain't cheatin'."

If you want a ban that bad, why don't you just gchat Corsair?

flexityflex86
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby flexityflex86 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:50 pm

i don't understand why a firm cares about GLBT or would ever care. Who cares who your associates are sleeping with as long as it's legal? I can understand being a minority or from a specific cultural background giving a boost for potential client connections, but how often does who you're dating come up in a professional setting? Being diverse might give a firm better PR, but while anyone can see if a firm has URM employees, it is very difficult to predict orientation particularly in a field like law. I might be backwards, but it strikes me as both odd and unprofessional to talk about your sexual orientation at an interview.

warumnicht
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby warumnicht » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:40 pm

flexityflex86 wrote:i don't understand why a firm cares about GLBT or would ever care. Who cares who your associates are sleeping with as long as it's legal? I can understand being a minority or from a specific cultural background giving a boost for potential client connections, but how often does who you're dating come up in a professional setting? Being diverse might give a firm better PR, but while anyone can see if a firm has URM employees, it is very difficult to predict orientation particularly in a field like law. I might be backwards, but it strikes me as both odd and unprofessional to talk about your sexual orientation at an interview.


I disagree.

As far as PR, it's true that you can't see sexual orientation on the surface the way you might ethnicity, but it's entirely possible for attorneys to demonstrate that they are of a particular sexual orientation in their biographies -- for example, they might be involved in LGBT-specific professional organizations and have that listed under their activities. (Not to say that all LGBT people are active in LGBT communities or that non-LGBT people aren't active in LGBT communities...but it is an indicator to some extent.)

And why wouldn't it be a boost for potential client connections? Some clients don't care who represents them as long as the attorney is competent, but other clients want someone they can relate to, and sexual orientation is certainly a way to accomplish that. It has nothing to do with dating, but it does have a lot to do with having to overcome a certain stigma, which unfortunately still exists in society. Especially in a profession that strikes many as overly buttoned-up and conservative, I can certainly see how a client who might have faced discrimination in the past would want to work with someone who understands where he or she is coming from.

This discussion is reminding me of that Sex and the City episode where Charlotte got a group of rich, powerful lesbian friends...

flexityflex86
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby flexityflex86 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:20 pm

warumnicht wrote:
flexityflex86 wrote:i don't understand why a firm cares about GLBT or would ever care. Who cares who your associates are sleeping with as long as it's legal? I can understand being a minority or from a specific cultural background giving a boost for potential client connections, but how often does who you're dating come up in a professional setting? Being diverse might give a firm better PR, but while anyone can see if a firm has URM employees, it is very difficult to predict orientation particularly in a field like law. I might be backwards, but it strikes me as both odd and unprofessional to talk about your sexual orientation at an interview.


I disagree.

As far as PR, it's true that you can't see sexual orientation on the surface the way you might ethnicity, but it's entirely possible for attorneys to demonstrate that they are of a particular sexual orientation in their biographies -- for example, they might be involved in LGBT-specific professional organizations and have that listed under their activities. (Not to say that all LGBT people are active in LGBT communities or that non-LGBT people aren't active in LGBT communities...but it is an indicator to some extent.)

And why wouldn't it be a boost for potential client connections? Some clients don't care who represents them as long as the attorney is competent, but other clients want someone they can relate to, and sexual orientation is certainly a way to accomplish that. It has nothing to do with dating, but it does have a lot to do with having to overcome a certain stigma, which unfortunately still exists in society. Especially in a profession that strikes many as overly buttoned-up and conservative, I can certainly see how a client who might have faced discrimination in the past would want to work with someone who understands where he or she is coming from.

This discussion is reminding me of that Sex and the City episode where Charlotte got a group of rich, powerful lesbian friends...

Agree to disagree.

I have a thing for blondes, have an I Love Blondes bumper sticker and was co-president of a club that ranked blonde women on campus. I don't see how who I'm sexually attracted to influences who I can get along with/relate to. It is just a subtle part of who I am like what kind of food I like.

Culture, race and religion are things that professionally can make a difference. I don't want to sound closed minded as I am pro-gay marriage, but the only reason is I just don't give a shit who people sleep with and who they're attracted to, and I feel most people think like me on this issue.

Aston2412
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Re: Huge grade drop....... OCI?

Postby Aston2412 » Tue Jul 19, 2011 4:42 pm

It's not about who people sleep with that adds to their professional capability. It's about the unique challenges that an LGBT individual faces in society. In many ways these challenges shape and define who an individual is and frequently breed resilience and self-reliance.




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