Top Law Schools

Good evening, TLS. I'm going to spell out my thoughts on my goals and then try to give some particulars. I would appreciate your comments on either part.

I'm still not entirely sold on the biglaw thing. I worked at an elite plaintiffs' firm before law school and have sort of had it in my head that I want to do that when I graduate. SO my first strategy has been to individually apply to plaintiffs' firms and elite litigation boutiques in general in CA/NY/DC. Thoughts on this list? Other ideas?

-Milberg
-Lieff Cabraser Heimann & Bernstein
-Robbins Geller Rudman & Dowd
-Cotchett Pitre & McCarthy
-Coblentz, Patch, Duffy & Bass
-Quinn Emmanuel
-Keker and Van Nest
-Susman
-Munger Tolles & Olson

What am I missing here? What are the other elite/boutique/plaintiffs litigation firms in SF, LA, NY or DC?

Then I'm going to make a bidlist for OCI. I'm having a hard time putting this together, but basically basing it on the GPA requirements of each firm. Is biglaw a better idea, career-wise, than going to one of the above firms? People say once you work elite biglaw in NYC you can work anywhere; is that not so of the above firms? Are the above firms the "anywhere" people want to work in the first place, so should I just skip the biglaw part if I can? Sell me biglaw if you can. So my tentative biglaw list is kind of just gleaned from this firm and V20:

MoFo - SF
Boies Schiller - Oakland
OMM - SF (maybe? or is OMM declining in SF? what are the good biglaw firms in SF?)
Cravath - NY
Skadden - NY
Covington - DC
W&C - DC
Morgan Lewis - SF
Latham - SF
Cleary - NY
Gibson Dunn - SF, NY

I guess I could go on, but I have no basis to do so. Just rank by litigation using the Vault website? Other ideas for how to do it? Finally, a bunch of the attorneys I work for this summer used to be at prestigious biglaw firms. Worth hitting them up for interviews? If I go too hard, am I going to get "too many interviews"?

What are my chances at these places?

Humbly/truly yours
Anon

3% At GULC, so long as you aren't a leper you should be able to get any job you want.

Aston2412 wrote:3% At GULC, so long as you aren't a leper you should be able to get any job you want.

OP here. I have the feeling it means I'll likely be able to get a V10-15 job, but I'm pretty sure if they know what's good for them, the smaller firms are pretty scrutinizing in their hiring process. That's why I want to cast a somewhat wide net. But I don't want to be overwhelmed. I also want help in choosing which of those Vault firms are right for me.

Definitely check out Altshuler Berzon...they're on par with Leif Cabraser. You can't do much better for plaintiff-side stuff.

Aston2412 wrote:3% At GULC, so long as you aren't a leper you should be able to get any job you want.

It's still chaotic. Top 3% at GULC should get a good job, but nobody gets every job they apply for or 'any job they want.'

Thank you for taking me completely literally.

My point was that OP should have options when it's all said and done.

OP here. Thanks, I have a friend at Altschuler, I'll definitely have to look into that. Any other suggestions - particularly in NYC - for plaintiff's firms?

Any thoughts on what biglaw firms would be best for someone in my position? I'm thinking a place like Cravath or MTO would be good, with smaller focuses and not quite so (I predict?) corporate?

Anonymous User wrote:Any thoughts on what biglaw firms would be best for someone in my position? I'm thinking a place like Cravath or MTO would be good, with smaller focuses and not quite so (I predict?) corporate?

Cravath is the epitome of enormous / corporate / defense orietned law firms. Great firm, and tons of great litigators get there start there (Like John Quinn and David Boies, neh?) but doesn't sound at all like what you're looking for. It's not markedly different from a lit point of view than S&C, DPW, Skadden, Paul Weiss, etc.

Check out Patterson Belknap as well.

But it only has two offices and has a smaller number of folks, no? I'm not saying big firms are totally out for me - indeed, I'm applying to a lot of them through OCI - I just have a little nervousness about working for an organization of 2000+ people. I guess because my dad had his own business and always told me he wanted to get away from those corporate giants.

I guess what I really want is a top place to do litigation, where people want to kick ass and have a good team environment. I want to be able to know the people on my floor. Maybe this doesn't exclude s&c, skadden, etc. You mentioned DPW, but I just read that they are mostly transactional work - is that true? They aren't on the list because I'm looking for lit.

Another thought -

Do the big law firms listed in this thread have better exit options than the plaintiffs' firms/boutiques? For example, say I get a job at Keker or Lieff; will I have a chance to apply to the US Attorney's Office in SF a few years' down the line? Or is working at Cravath going to make my resume spectacularly better than these firms? Surely Cravath is better for NY - but what about comparing Susman to Cravath?

Anonymous User wrote:But it only has two offices and has a smaller number of folks, no? I'm not saying big firms are totally out for me - indeed, I'm applying to a lot of them through OCI - I just have a little nervousness about working for an organization of 2000+ people. I guess because my dad had his own business and always told me he wanted to get away from those corporate giants.

I guess what I really want is a top place to do litigation, where people want to kick ass and have a good team environment. I want to be able to know the people on my floor. Maybe this doesn't exclude s&c, skadden, etc. You mentioned DPW, but I just read that they are mostly transactional work - is that true? They aren't on the list because I'm looking for lit.

"two offices" is kind of irrelevant. Skadden is legitimately larger, but most of the wall street firms have 500 or so attorneys in NYC then smaller satellite offices. Cravath is not markedly smaller than the others, and the experience working in its NYC office will be all but identical from a size point of view to the other wall street firms. Of the top 10 or so wall street / NYC firms, only Skadden is actually in a different league size wise (bigger NYC office + bigger full service offices in other locations).

Here are the chambers rankings for NYC commercial litigation (chambers is well respected in the industry):

http://www.chambersandpartners.com/USA/Editorial/43209

As you can see, most of the top NYC firms have both strong corporate and litigation practices.

No one thinks this guy should try to transfer to HYS? Just wondering. I figured that would be the advice in here. I guess it might be a little late right now.

Anonymous User wrote:No one thinks this guy should try to transfer to HYS? Just wondering. I figured that would be the advice in here. I guess it might be a little late right now.

I applied, actually. Applications are pending. Why do you suggest this, though?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:No one thinks this guy should try to transfer to HYS? Just wondering. I figured that would be the advice in here. I guess it might be a little late right now.

I applied, actually. Applications are pending. Why do you suggest this, though?

Anonymous probably isn't a law student. There is almost no reason to transfer in OP's position. HYS only provide better options all else being equal or before knowing your performance. Large swaths of people at HYS would kill to be top 3% at GULC, and the transfer would not provide tangible career benefits.

I'm a law graduate. Top 3% at GULC is impressive and I was debating what position I'd rather be in when I posted, the reason I posted is because I was certain someone in here would have advised you to transfer, and no one had yet.

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a law graduate. Top 3% at GULC is impressive and I was debating what position I'd rather be in when I posted, the reason I posted is because I was certain someone in here would have advised you to transfer, and no one had yet.

OP. Edited to make sense.

The following reasons were in my head when I APPLIED TO TRANSFER, for better or worse or insane:
-better clerkship options down the road (now realizing this might simply be false)
-better academia options down the road (now realizing I just don't want to do this)
-better OCI (probably true; GULC is a stupid lottery that might rob me. Also, no Wachtell!)
-better name on wall in the case that I open my own firm
-throws fuel into the egotistical fire

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a law graduate. Top 3% at GULC is impressive and I was debating what position I'd rather be in when I posted, the reason I posted is because I was certain someone in here would have advised you to transfer, and no one had yet.

I don't know any of the 'regulars' who would advice top 3% at GULC to transfer. There's a measure of group think on TLS, so that might not be worth much objectively, but in this case I think the conventional wisdom is pretty spot-on.

A transfer from top of the class at T14 to HYS won't likely hurt your career, but there's just not an obvious upside either.

Edit: Also, no reason to use the anonymous feature (which is for revealing sensitive employment related info, not asking if OP should transfer).

thesealocust wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a law graduate. Top 3% at GULC is impressive and I was debating what position I'd rather be in when I posted, the reason I posted is because I was certain someone in here would have advised you to transfer, and no one had yet.

I don't know any of the 'regulars' who would advice top 3% at GULC to transfer. There's a measure of group think on TLS, so that might not be worth much objectively, but in this case I think the conventional wisdom is pretty spot-on.

A transfer from top of the class at T14 to HYS won't likely hurt your career, but there's just not an obvious upside either.

The only person I know who did this was a guy in my section who went to YLS to have a better chance at becoming a law prof. The odds of that are still pretty slim, but I think that's really the only good reason to transfer with Top 3% at Georgetown.

Wouldn't having both "top 3% at GULC" and "J.D., Yale Law School" on your resume trump just having the former?

Anonymous User wrote:Wouldn't having both "top 3% at GULC" and "J.D., Yale Law School" on your resume trump just having the former?

No. Law schools only work that way before you get there. In the real world, Yale isn't better so much as it has more people in important places. But there are still a fuckton from Georgetown, and the top 3% kid will get noticed either way. Take an extremely elite job like getting hired as a 2L at Williams & Connolly. You're in the running at top 3% from Georgetown, transferring to Yale won't boost your chances. Within the top schools, being at the top of the class matters exponentially more than the name. There just aren't any doors shut to people with top grades from T14 schools.

Nogameisfair wrote:

thesealocust wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a law graduate. Top 3% at GULC is impressive and I was debating what position I'd rather be in when I posted, the reason I posted is because I was certain someone in here would have advised you to transfer, and no one had yet.

I don't know any of the 'regulars' who would advice top 3% at GULC to transfer. There's a measure of group think on TLS, so that might not be worth much objectively, but in this case I think the conventional wisdom is pretty spot-on.

A transfer from top of the class at T14 to HYS won't likely hurt your career, but there's just not an obvious upside either.

The only person I know who did this was a guy in my section who went to YLS to have a better chance at becoming a law prof. The odds of that are still pretty slim, but I think that's really the only good reason to transfer with Top 3% at Georgetown.

Still debatable, but I'd agree that's a defensible reason to make the jump.

Anonymous User wrote:Wouldn't having both "top 3% at GULC" and "J.D., Yale Law School" on your resume trump just having the former?

Maybe in terms of getting people to kiss your ass...

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a law graduate. Top 3% at GULC is impressive and I was debating what position I'd rather be in when I posted, the reason I posted is because I was certain someone in here would have advised you to transfer, and no one had yet.

OP. Edited to make sense.

The following reasons were in my head when I APPLIED TO TRANSFER, for better or worse or insane:
-better clerkship options down the road (now realizing this might simply be false)
-better academia options down the road (now realizing I just don't want to do this)
-better OCI (probably true; GULC is a stupid lottery that might rob me. Also, no Wachtell!)
-better name on wall in the case that I open my own firm
-throws fuel into the egotistical fire

Rising 3L at GULC, I'm just going to respond to this. There's no major benefit for you in transferring, IMO. You'll do extremely well at EIW as long as you are not a terrible interview. I did quite well and I was approximately Top 10% going into EIW.

1) Clerkship options - you'll have plenty with those grades if you keep them up. Given your GPA, it's less about the school and more about just applying when you have to, having strong recommendations, etc.
2) If you don't care about academia, this shouldn't matter. If you do, start figuring out how to publish asap.
3) If I'm not mistaken, every T14 but UVA does a lottery system. And you will not get robbed. Even if you misbid and end up with less interviews than you'd like (the average last year was 12 from the lottery), all of your Top 20 will want to interview you. Just contact them beforehand if they don't, or just hassle them at EIW. I went from 12 interviews to 22 by the time EIW started, and again, I was about Top 10. And just apply to Wachtell separately (but I really don't get why you would want that given your interests in your first post).

Anonymous User wrote:Another thought -

Do the big law firms listed in this thread have better exit options than the plaintiffs' firms/boutiques? For example, say I get a job at Keker or Lieff; will I have a chance to apply to the US Attorney's Office in SF a few years' down the line? Or is working at Cravath going to make my resume spectacularly better than these firms? Surely Cravath is better for NY - but what about comparing Susman to Cravath?

For the SF Attorney's Office, there's nothing that would look better than Keker or Leiff. Now working at Keker and then trying for NYC City Attorney could be a different story...but everyone in the Bay knows that Keker is just as selective/elite as any East Coast firm.

thanks for the advice and help guys, I stay on this forum for a reason

good luck to anyone else. feel free to ask me (OP) any q's if you have them and I'll try to give back generally for your help